On this episode of the FOXPRO Podcast, Jon Collins is joined by FOXPRO ProStaffer Gage Bohannon as they discuss areas you can cut costs while coyote hunting.
Welcome to the FoxPro podcast brought to you by FoxPro [music] Game Calls. Welcome back to the FoxPro podcast. I recently had a conversation with a gentleman that started with him asking, "If you were needing to save some money, what part of coyote hunting would you cut cost on?" I thought that was a I thought that was a great question. It actually had me stumped for a bit. I had just tons of stuff running through my running through my mind like optics, calls, tripods, bipods, ammo, rifles, suppressors, and so on and so on. And so that's our topic uh for this episode. What part of coyote hunting? What area of coyote hunting would you cut cost on? Joining us for this conversation is Fox Pro staffer Gage Bohannan. Gage, thanks for coming on again, old buddy. How you doing? I've been doing pretty good, sir. Glad to be back. Yeah, I've seen I know you stay busy. Uh diesel or he's a diesel mechanic by trade. Gage has his own shop and just stays slammed. He does excellent work. I've had him work on our stuff before and hopefully I never have another issue of a diesel to have to take to gauge. But uh that's what Gage does in these uh during the daytime. But I've been noticing that you've been able to sneak out and do a little bow fishing lately. And you shot some uh some pretty nice looking big heads. I think what it was. Yeah. Um we man we've had I mean the water you know we've had a lot of rain here at the house. I mean it seems like every week we're getting another 2 in or something but uh we've had some nights man that just hit off pretty good. The fish came up good where the temps have been right. And so actually even thinking about going tonight. Uh water don't look too bad and we're supposed to get more rain tomorrow night and Saturday night. So I think I might hit it again tonight. Well hopefully. hopefully burn them up that uh we definitely getting plenty of rains kind of hindered a lot of coyote hunting on my end since last well uh over the weekend this past weekend started on Wednesday through Sunday we had over 7 ines of rain right here at my house which is crazy you can't get up too much [laughter] it's insane I can't ever remember you know obviously we've had some crazy wet springs around here but as far as wet summers go I mean it's been kind of wild with the amount of rainfall we've gotten Yeah. Hey, what about uh you started deer scouting any yet? You got any big bucks lined up? I I don't I've got a couple buddies that I'm a little more concerned with hopefully getting them on some deer versus myself. I don't have anything that's just blowing my mind yet. Not saying something won't pop up out of the ground, but I had a real big deer that I kind of threw all my eggs in the basket for for this year and kind of made a stupid pass last year and he ended up getting killed during rifle season. He was a giant. And so [snorts] I kind of already dedicated that. That was where my head was going and a little cocky on my part. But so this year just kind of a building year. We got some great young deer coming in. You know, stuff that looks like in two or three years could be some mega giants. And uh just nothing right now that I'm just dead set that I want to go after. You know, hopefully make it a fun year. Maybe get the wife on one and stuff like that. Yeah. Good. I hope y'all have a successful fall. But as we all know, it's definitely not deer season right now, but it's always it's always coyote season. So, that's what we're going to we're going to get to our topic at hand. And like I said earlier, I was asked a question. You know, a guy was you know, he's got into coyote hunting. He's looking at upgrading upgrading a thing or two and you know, he's got to look. He's like, "Man, this stuff this sport cost a ton of money." And he asked me, he said, "You know, if it was up to you if you was going to cut cost somewhere, where would you do it?" So, what part of coyote hunting, you guys think about this as we're doing this podcast, having this conversation, what area, what part of coyote hunting would you cut cost on? And first thing, uh, I think we have to identify what items are actually needed, uh, for hunting coyotes. And in my opinion, those are a firearm, ammo to shoot through it, a shooting rest, and a call. Now, of course, you got to have the firearm. You've got to, and you've got to have the ammo to go through it. Now, some people might be thinking, well, you ain't got to have a shooting rest. You can shoot off your knee. Well, if you're going to have a fire a firearm and your ammo, you might as well be holding it steady. So, I think you got to have a shooting rest. It's got to go in that equation. And let's face it, we're all, if you're listening this podcast, you're a coyote caller. That's what we live for. We call coyote. So, a coyote call is essential as well. Uh, what we're going to do is we're going to discuss each of those items and then at the end, we'll pick which one we'd cut cost on. I'll pick, you know, we might have, we haven't really discussed this before this podcast. He uh Gage might pick one thing. I might pick something different or we might agree and both pick the same thing. But uh first things first, you have to have some sort of firearm, rifle or a shotgun. You know, you see people shooting some archery stuff every once while, but that's definitely not the norm. I do I do know of hunters that use shotgun only, but 99% of us are using a rifle. It's pretty crucial item, right? Yes, sir. Uh, and Gage is a gun fanatic. He is a nut. He's got plenty of guns, so he he'll be able to talk on this pretty good. Um, you know, there's tons of stuff out there. The sky is really the limit, you know, with ARs and boat guns. Um, you can get pretty cheap with a $300 or $400 gun, maybe even cheaper. Or you can go way up to the top with a high high dollar uh custom gun. And Gage, I know you've got both, don't you? You got You've got ARs, you've got boats, you've got custom guns, you've got factory guns and and semi custom guns. You got it. You got it all. Yeah. I mean, for sure. U you know, like we kind of hit on in the past just, you know, talking and passing, you know, uh with our boat gun and AR conversations, you know, with thermal coming along, I've ran different setups for that. So, I have ran plenty of both there. And I mean that is definitely something that I don't know. I feel like a couple years ago, you know, four or five years ago, it just seemed like the custom bolt gun thing blew up in the coyote world. It did. Yeah. Yeah. Um it seemed like everybody went from just shooting, you know, your factory stuff to now everybody's got a $3 to $6,000 custom bolt gun that they were running for daytime stuff. And uh you know, I was guilty of it for sure. I couldn't tell you how many of them I ended up with. But, um, well, I think when it comes to that point right there that you just said, um, coyote hunting is such a a specialty, uh, style of hunting. Um, and I guess what I'm getting at is us coyote hunters, we shoot more rifles, we shoot more rifles, or we shoot more rifles, we shoot more ammo, uh, we look through more thermal, more scopes, we use more tripods, we use all that stuff more than anybody else in the hunting industry. So, we're shooting more ammo and more variety of guns uh, than your deer hunters are. Uh most of them are shooting archery equipment nowadays. Um and the list goes on. You it don't matter what area you're talking about. Like turkey hunters. Turkey season all across the country isn't from March through May. So I mean they're not, you know, they're not hunting a ton. You know how deer hunting is. Deer hunting is, you know, September through January pretty much, you know, nationwide. So, your coyote hunters uh are using more rifles than anybody. And I think that's one of the spots, the reason that custom rifles got so big for coyote hunters because we shoot so many of them. And for some guys, it's a weekly uh outing of them going out and coyote hunting and some guys are almost daily. So, I think that's where they wanted a rifle that 100% fit them. built exactly what they needed to meet their needs. And and it makes sense. It makes sense. And like I said, I made the comment earlier, the sky's is the limit. You can get some pretty dag on pricey custom rifles. Oh, yeah. I mean, you can you can tie up thousands in an instant anymore. I mean, and it honestly probably isn't going to do anything but get worse on that end. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you when you start talking about well, and I'll let you give an example for for the AR stuff cuz I'm not very familiar with that. But like for the boat gun stuff, you start talking about getting like a uh you know your your Manners style stocks, these carbon fiber stocks, uh it cost tons of money, carbon fiber barrels, uh titanium actions that's out there now, all these different triggers you got available to you and all the gunsmithing work that goes into them. You're talking about not just a couple thousand bucks. You're talking about it ain't nothing to get five, six, $7,000 in a in a custom rifle. Oh, yeah. I mean, when you get it, you know, it's kind of just effortlessly. You don't see it until you shoot it. I mean, it's it's one of those things that Well, like you were talking about on actions. I mean, you've got actions now that are over two grand. You've got barrels that are north of a,000, you know? I mean, and [snorts] you've got triggers that are three, four, $500. I mean it just you can tie so much money. Adds up. Then you got to have somebody that's that's going to chamber the thing and that ain't free. No. No. I mean and that's another thing, you know, Smith and and you you can't blame him at all because it's a lot of work. It's not just any Joe blow down the street can do it. I mean that's a that's a tough thing to do. And I mean you were talking about with AR platforms. It's kind of the same thing there. I mean, you get into special buffers, special bolt carriers. They're chambered in really I mean, now you can literally buy an AR in anything. I mean, so you've got guys that are chambering AR barrels and then, you know, the gas systems to make them work with these custom rounds and the mags that it takes to feed some of these rounds. I mean, you same same ball game there. I mean, you can tie up thousands really quick in a in a rifle. What uh like on the high end, what could you get into with a custom AR setup? I mean, without without a thr just just the gun, you know. Yeah. I mean, I've got one that, you know, I've got just north of three in. Um, you know, and like I say, it's, you know, it's a really great shooting gun. It's a 250, but um, you know, and I mean, I'm sure there's guys that have tied up even more in them. I mean, you know, you're three to five. it just depending on what you picked, what finishes you went with, you know, what mag setups, this and that. But I mean, same, you know, kind of I can I can definitely say that all the bolt guns I have, I definitely have more money wrapped up in most of the individual bolt guns that I have, but you can still tie up thousands of dollars in an AR platform rifle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like I said, you can you can double or triple that pretty easy in a It's like in a boat gun. It's like he's talking about the actions. I got a [laughter] there's a gun sitting over in the corner. It's got a a Lone Peak Razor Ti on it, I think. And I bought that years ago and I think it was 1,4500 bucks for the action. Yeah. Six years ago or something like that. I can't even remember. So, I don't who knows what it is now. Uh so, you know, it's got a carbon barrel on it and carbon fiber stock. I mean, it just it just just adds up. And, you know, then you got the other end of the spectrum. you know, you got your your um factory guns, you know, some of them old Savage guns, Stevens guns, Rugers, you know, you can get into some pretty affordable uh pretty affordable firearms. So, [sighs] there's a pretty broad broad spectrum right there. And I ain't saying one's better better than the other. We might discuss it later on here, but um I think uh the next thing is of course is ammo. you have your firearm picked out, next thing you got to have something to go through it. You know, the rifle isn't isn't worth much if you don't have anything to to run down the tube. But uh you know, [sighs] that's one there's so many different bullets nowadays and there's still several uh uh factory ammo offerings, a lot of affordable factory ammo offering. Of course, you can reload. You're a big reloader and you can speak you can speak to that. I mean, you can Yeah. I mean, that's honestly I'm I think now it's honestly shifted to where, you know, the reloader used to be the budget guy. Like even though, you know, you had guys that were building like really precise ammo, really good shooting ammo, it was a budget thing. And now I think that role is definitely reversed. I think, you know, box ammo is cheaper than reloading now. Yeah. I mean, uh, especially a few years ago, I [clears throat] think I was hollering at you was trying to find some powder. I was trying to find some 4350 or something. I drove, you couldn't order it. You could not find it online. You could not order the stuff. And I think you told me about I can't remember if it was up in Frankfurt or somewhere. Anyway, I drove like an hour and a half just to on the chance that they had powder. I remember trying to call them. They wouldn't answer the dag on phone and got online, show they was open. I remember drove all the way up there and of course walked in the door. didn't have no H4350, but I did end up walking out with a couple pound pounds of bar, but it was like and it was bringing at that time. I don't know if that was back in the COVID era or when that was, but uh you know, the stuff is you couldn't find it. And if you did find it, you was paying like triple for it. Oh, it was horrible. I mean, and to be fair, it's still not great. I mean, I'm sitting in my reloading room now and I look over at the shelf and I think I've got uh I've got some old pounds over there that were, you know, under $30. And then I've got some more recent stuff that's dang near 60. And then I've got an 8 lb jug or a tumbo I just bought for a 7 PRC project. And I think I give a fuzz over 450 for it. Yeah. And I know back like in that time frame, I haven't bought any of this stuff in a while, but I think back there during that same time frame I was talking about couldn't find powders. Um, rifle primers were very hard to come by and you were paying just outrageous prices for them when you did find them. So, you're you're spot on with that. Um, when you said used to, the reloader was a guy that that was, you know, trying to save money cuz that's the reason my dad did it. You know, my dad was a reloader. I remember him reloading when I was a kid. And uh and that's what he was would talk about when I finally got into it. He was like, "Yeah, you can cut cost here, do this, you know, and just practically unlimited ammo for for a fraction of the price." That ain't true no more. Oh, no. Well, I mean, if you had to start like right now, and I mean, I still get people, you know, messaged with questions and stuff like that about it. If you actually had to like get in it for more than the hobby, like you were wanting to get in it for something else. I mean, you got to think die sets now alone. I mean, don't get me wrong, you can find some RCBS dies and stuff like that, you know, 35, 40 bucks a pop, but like you get into some of the reading dies and things like that or some of the custom sets. I mean, you're tying up just one caliber, one set of dyes, you know, three 400 bucks. Uh primers now are anywhere from 70 to $90 for a,000 which you know used to buy them for you know 30 bucks a thousand. Um heck bullets man bullets are another thing that I think people don't even realize like I mean they dang near tripled. Um, you know, some of the 30 cal stuff that I had for elk hunting and some of the 7 mil stuff, you can still do some 6 mill and some 22 cal stuff pretty reasonable, but man, most of your bullets are getting to the point where I mean, if you added it up what you have in a handloaded round, it there's no way you could touch a factory ammo. And I mean, some of the factory ammo, I mean, as we know, shoots lights out and is killer. I mean, I think we've talked about like the Hornady 87 grain V-Max and the six mill. It's hard to duplicate a round that kills as good as that, you know? It's just a great round right out of the box. Um, and so it's it's definitely getting to the point where that's another flip-flop there. I mean, reload is no longer the budget games. No, it's not. And there's and it's just quite frankly, even y'all you factory stuff, the prices ain't what they used to be. So, you're you're having to pay to to play that game. Uh the the good thing is with factory ammo, there is so many dag on good factory ammo offerings out there nowadays. And there's actually some, you know, there's some custom ammo sites that you can order custom ammo from, but just your factory stuff you brought up like Hornady over on the shelf. I shoot, you know, 22 250 quite a bit. Of course, 243 and 6 got this stuff as well. Um but like I'm just shooting this Hornady. It's not the super performance. It's just the regular Hornady um 55 grain V-Max loads, factory loads, and they're great. They're consistent. They do excellent. I have no issues with them. No issues. They're they shoot accurate out of my everything I put them in. I have no problems at all. And I shoot the same bullets you were talking about for the six greed 87 grain V-Max. Got several boxes of that sitting over there and zero issues issues with it. The speed is the speed is good. The accuracy is there. It's consistent. And you know, I have I have no reason I never one thing about I I never was a big fan of reloading. I never did. Like I kind of got a problem with some OCD stuff and Right. [laughter] And reloading does not help. I've heard some people say it actually helps for that, but it does not help me. So, I'm totally fine shooting factory. I don't care if I ever uh run a run another bullet press again in my life. But yeah, you know, and like you were talking about the factory options now, factory options now versus what they were 10 to 15 years ago is night and day. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. Uh the other end of the spect spectrum, you know, talk about um uh shotgun stuff. We've actually discussed this a few times. Actually just had a podcast come out over TSS. Um, you know what comes with shotguns? Good grief. There's there's one spot that you that you could save some money is not shooting TSS. The stuff is awesome. The stuff is awesome. But man, the price difference between say a load of number four birdshot TSS compared to number four buckshot lead loads. Is their name comparable? And you know, I guess the argument could be there. Now, listen, I shoot the TSS stuff. If I can't shoot the TSS stuff, I probably just ain't ain't going to take a shotgun. And I don't take them a ton anyway. But I guess the argument could be said, just call your coyotes closer and shoot them with a big old hefty load of number four bucker BBs that are just lead shot, you know, and say save that save that money versus TSS. And that's another thing that even just in the last two years there, I mean, if you look at prices on most of your, you know, your big name companies that we all shoot as far as TSS goes, those prices just because of tungsten shortages have just exploded there. Oh, yeah. It's got, it's got nuts. Nuts. And so, like you were talking about calling coyotes closer. I've hunted with many big shotgun hunters that, you know, don't get me wrong, they did shoot a lot of TSS, but there was a lot of times that, you know, say if they were going to call coons or they were calling some thickets that were just super tight, they knew the shot wasn't going to be over 40 yards, it was some factory BBs, you know, stuff like that. Mow them down. That's right. That's right. my my stupid butt over the last couple years go I don't shoot a lot of raccoons but like like getting into a few of them my man well I tell you what happened I messed up one time and took uh some shells with me that were subpar for coyotes let's just put it that way I was targeting coons running raccoon distresses actually was the I can't remember anyway the first co the first thing I called up was not a raccoon Great big old male big old looked like a big old male coyote. Come up here about 30 yards. I centered the beat up and let him have it. Man, that sucker that sucker spun and took off. I never did find a coyote. Darn thing got away from me. So I I switched over. I was calling for coons. I'd be shooting TSS. I shoot like number four TSS or raccoons. I ain't doing that no more. Too dag on high. [laughter] About say throwing $20 at a [ __ ] every day. Yeah. [laughter]
Uh, we'll move on away from that. So, you got f you got firearms, you got ammo. Everybody, you know, you just take it for what it's worth, whatever you think you can get away with. But, uh, uh, let's move on to optics. Optics is a is a thing that you got to have. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure there might be somebody out there still shooting some open sight stuff out of the rifle, but not very many. All right. They got grit, don't they? They got it. Yeah, that's right. So, when it comes to optics, um, you know, it's this is a big one. You know, it doesn't matter if you're talking about thermal or or day scopes. You know, if you're if you're talking about, uh, nighttime stuff, most likely you're got a thermal weapon site and you're also packing a scanner. And then if you're a daytime hunter, of course, you got to you definitely got a day scope and it's possible you might be packing a set of binoculars, too. So, it's easy getting a lot of money on for day and night. Yeah. I mean, and that's another thing uh that we it could be another big expanded topic. You know, in the last few years there too, it seems like your higherend optics have definitely taken off more in the coyote world. Yeah. Yeah, it does seem like uh over the last uh handful of years seem like the price for quality thermal has definitely got a lot better, you know. Oh, yeah. It seemed like some of the stuff you was having to pay in the teens for you can now get, you know, in the single digits. Well, and you know, I I don't know if me and you've ever talked about it, but I've had quite a few discussions with this. Not in the sense of like it's a race to the bottom in quality, but those prices, you know, when I first got into thermal hunting, um I still have the first thermal scope that I ever shot. It was a Trigicon Reap and uh I bought it used. I gave like 5,500 for it or something like that, but they were still like eight grand new then. And now the comparable scopes, I mean that you can have recording capabilities, LRF, you can have, you know, many different color pallets. It's onboard battery, you know, just every feature you could have. you can get into some of these like killer scopes, you know, proven 600 yard thermals, you know, for under that uh you're under that 7500 mark, you know, you're under that six grand mark in some cases. Well, and that's another thing back in the past if you took, you know, these guys that just wanted to spend a,000 bucks, 2,000 bucks, 3,000 bucks, they wasn't getting much. They was getting pretty poor quality stuff. Now you can take two or three thousand bucks and you can get in something really really nice for thermal. out. I mean, and even you look back like, you know, just going back to when I started, you know, if you didn't have a 640 unit, you weren't, you know, like you just said, you didn't have much. And then now some of these 384 units, man, I'll have people bring them to me to sight them in and you look through them and it's just like, wow, man. just the the technology that's in there for, you know, not saying a little or nothing cuz don't get me wrong, still very expensive, very costly item, but the technology that is in a $3,000 scope now versus 5 years ago, even 3 years ago even, it's I mean, it's not even like we're playing the same sport. I mean, now you're talking about if you're spending 10 grand on a scope now, it's like looking through a day scope at night. I mean, it's insane. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think? Since you mentioned day scopes, where where do you stand with with day scopes? U you know, I dad back when I first started buying stuff on my own. He's like, you know, I'd get a rifle and he's like, "Now you need to spend about two or three times as much on your scope." And I always kind of live by that, [laughter] you know, cuz he it made it didn't really make sense to me at the time, but that was kind of what was just drilled in my head at a young age. And uh you know it's like [snorts] I got old Ruger Americans sitting over here. You know, everybody knows what they cost. A lot of people run them things. Well, I got a um I don't why can't you buy them at 600 bucks or whatever? Well, I got a a$,000 or $1,100 scope on it. Exactly. So, um, so for me there, that's kind of a a [clears throat] skewed topic, you know, because to be honest with you, I ran the bottom of the barrel day scopes honestly probably until I started running with probably you and Dayton were the ones that changed my mind on it, started running some of the stuff that y'all had. But, um, you know, when I first got into it, I ran I mean was buying used scopes even, but I ran scopes that were, you know, $200 scopes, $100 scopes, whatever. And now I will say I'm, you know, a lot more picky. You know, most of my rifles have really high-end glass on them. And I will say it does make a difference as far as clarity goes. As far as, you know, picking up targets in low light, makes a big difference. So if you're a big, you know, deer hunter or you're a big out west hunter, that stuff makes a difference. I mean, that could change, you know, 5 10 minutes worth of shooting time, you know, and um especially, you know, I shoot a lot of like long range target stuff, man. I used to swear that, oh, you know, this, you know, $400 scope would be just fine. And I did, man. I've shot 13,400 yards with $400 scopes. But when you set behind a,000, $2,000 scope versus that scope and you're shooting at that long yard, it really really does make a difference. So, I guess that kind of comes down to what are you hunting? I mean, if you're a guy that's hunting, every stand you're making, every coyote you killed last year was under 200 yards, do you need a $2,000 scope? Probably not. But if you're an out west guy that, you know, one shot might be 50 yards, the next shot might be 650. Well, you know, that might be time to spend a little money on a scope that tracks good, that you can, you know, get data out of that's real good and things like that. Well, you know, I think when it comes it comes to optics, thermal and daycopes, I think there's you got to find that happy medium. You know, if you got all the money in the world, want to buy the highest dollar stuff, there's no I have no issue with it. Yeah, I would just from things I've seen in the past, I would caution against going bottom of the barrel. I mean, I think you got to be in that middle, at least in that middle somewhere. Um because it comes down to dependability, repeatability, you know, something that's going to make sure it's going to hold zero. Some of that old cheap stuff, you know, it does not. Yeah. I mean, I know it has a lot to do with you, how you've got it mounted and all that, but some of them cheap scopes, especially years ago, man, you couldn't get some of them hold zero for nothing. I mean, for nothing. So, that's a big thing to me. You know, if I put an optic on a a firearm, on a rifle, no matter if it's thermal or daycope, I want it to be on today after I get it sighted in, and I won't even want to touch nothing on it for the next 10 years, you know, like never never adjust it, you know what I mean? So, you you mentioned elk stuff earlier. I've got a old uh Remington model 700. Um, I think it's a 700 classic. Anyway, it's a 7mm Remington Magnum. I think my dad bought it brand new in 1984 and he passed it down to me. It has a old Luode Verx3 uh scope on it. Bought them at the same time. He put it on, sided it in. He used to hunt out west all over the place. Hunting Colorado, Wyoming. He's elk hunts, analopee hunts, did all this stuff. When I got into elk hunting in my 20s, I took it to Oregon and few other places hunting everything in the world. And uh we've never I have never took the caps off that scope. The scope has never been adjusted since 1984. And I don't know how many airplanes it's been on. I don't know how many road trips it's been on in trucks and thrown around it. That's just a V that's just a middle of the road scope. You can buy you can buy a VX3 for four or 500 bucks. So I mean you know there is that happy medium. So I think you got to at least get there where you can have something that you can depend on. And then after that it's all about clarity and low light and and so on and so on and of course resolution and stuff in the thermal game. Yeah. I mean definitely in the thermal because that's another happy medium. And like we talked about the prices definitely came down on what you can get for your money. But you'll still have guys that want to go out and spend 1,00500 bucks. And man, if I put you in a field that you didn't know, that you didn't know there was houses around. I can assure you because I've looked through them and had to sight them in for people, there is times that unless you read body language, you couldn't tell the difference between a deer and a coyote and a you know this and that. And I So I definitely think you know that's definitely not a place to skimp as far as money goes. And then yeah, the middle of the road cuz now you get into those bottom end scopes. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you have to spend even $500 or $600. There's some really good $250, $300 options that I've seen that will hold zero, but you know, you start dropping below that mark, I don't care what brands, you know, and I don't care if you had great luck out of this, that, or the other, cuz believe me, I had a I don't know if you remember them, but the center fires or whatever, center point that you could buy at Walmart for like 50 bucks. I had one of them. It's sitting on my shelf at the top of my reloading table. I'm looking at it right now because I will not get rid of it. I have killed more cos looking through that scope than Yeah. some people have seen, right? But I'll tell you right now, you bolt it back on a rifle and you put it next to even like a a lowend vortex, you know, like a crossfire and you'll be like, man, how did I even ever see a code through this thing? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely when you get used to something, it's definitely hard to take a few steps back, especially when it comes to comes to optics. And like I said, the biggest thing for me is is being able to depend on it. I want it to I want it to hold zero. I never want to have to resight it in. You know, I miss coyotes from ever every now and then. I mean, it just happens. Anybody that shoots enough coyotes going to miss one from time to time. I can handle it if I'm the reason I missed it like like I missed it. I pulled the shot or whatever. But if I do everything right and the coyote gets missed and I find out that my scope is off, I can't handle that equipment failure stuff. I just cannot I cannot it makes me want to like chop down trees with my face or something. I don't know. You [laughter] know, just I cannot I cannot handle that. And just another scope. Um you know, talking about scopes and just like the story I told about that old rifle of dads that he passed down. It's when I first come and started working at Foxro 5 years ago, they sent me a I got a Ruger American 22 250. I didn't have a scope to put on it. So, I took one of my old custom rifles I have here. Had a Lupode VX5 3-5 by 44 on it. I took the ring top rings off of it, jerked it right out of there and put it right on that uh that Ruger and uh I sighted it in that day. And that's 5 years ago. I've had that gun on no telling how many coyote stands right here at home in trucks side by side strapped to my back on electric bike um on fourwheelers you name it. It's been on airplanes numerous times to Texas, Wyoming, Montana, just just all over the world and no telling how many road trips from here to Kansas and Tennessee and just just everywhere. Only time I've I've only touched this the scope the caps on the scope twice. It's when I sighted it in on that custom gun and then when I sighted it in for that Ruger American. It's the only time I've had to take them off. And that's what I want out of Alpha Optic. No matter if it's daytime or nighttime for me. That's that's key. And that goes back to that scope you just mentioned. I don't care as far as brand goes. That size for coyote hunting is probably my favorite. Perfect daytime column scope 3 to 15 in my opinion. In my opinion, you know, I'm a [laughter] Yeah, I run a 3 to 15. Uh I run a bunch of night for stuff, but 3 to 15. I've got some of the VX5s as well, and 3 to 15 seems like the best for like cuz like you said, I'm a coer, so you take that how you will, but you know that under 300 yard shots, even 400 yard, that's a perfect size scope. Yeah, it'll it'll handle everything right there up close just feet away from you and it'll take care of you at some extended ranges, you know. It it's it's good. When I say VX5, I ain't trying, you know, it's a I think you get them for like a thousand bucks and there's a there's scopes that cost way way more money than those. So, let's move on away from the from the optics. Let's talk about the shooting rest. Now, shooting rest is, you know, that I I labeled it shooting rest because we're talking about there's shooting sticks, iPods, monopods. I don't see anybody running them anymore. Tripods, your knee, that's how most people started off with shooting off their knee. That's how I started. It seems like uh definitely the most popular thing nowadays is tripods. Uh it kind of started with the night hunting game. Uh they pretty much revolutionized it, but now your daytime hunters are running them as well. I'm running a tripod. Um Yep. But I've shot a mini a coyote off a set of shooting sticks, off uh fixed bipods. I've shot many off my knee, too. What do you think? What where you at with with shooting rest? You you running a tripod for day and night? Are you still running a bipod for a day? What are you doing? No. So actually just in this past year um where I you know it kind of come into getting the boys it it's kind of funny how cuz like you said how you started you started on your knee. I started with a set of tobaca sticks with a screw ran through them as like an actual set of shooting sticks. Um and then you know I moved into fixed bipods of all brands and sizes and shapes and everything. And I still have a few guns that have the bipod set up on them. So, you know, I haven't completely got away, but in uh in the last year getting the kids into deer hunting, I put a lot of my bolt guns, I put Arca rails on them because that way I could just throw them up on the tripod. The kids didn't have to hold them. They could practice shooting them in the backyard and stuff. And um you know, I'd always ran the Arca stuff at night for tripods. Um and I've ran, you know, a million different brands of tripods, too. But now I've gotten to where a handful of the guns that they were using to kill deer with are what I'm using to coyote hunt with. And I run a a daytime tripod now. Yeah. Yeah. It uh you know I run uh bipods and shooting sticks forever. I ran the Swagger stuff for many many years and I really like the versatility of it. And uh start talking about using a tripod. I was like man I ain't going to use no tripod for daytime stuff man. It's just going to it's going to lock me down. It's going to it's going to hinder me with movement. It won't be versatile. Man, was I wrong. You throw a leveling head or a ball head on there, you got all kinds of versatility. Um and as light as now, I mean, even some of your, you know, cuz I I'm not running the the smaller fat boy. I'm actually still running the actual big legs even for daytime stuff. And I mean, even on the off hand, cuz I'm a very like hardhanded right-hand shooter, like there ain't no swapping for me. And even on your off hand, like coyote comes in from hard right, it's still light enough I can grab a leg, pick it up, swing over, and you know, take the shot. I mean, it hasn't it hasn't hindered me. I hunt it out west. Um, you know, cuz I've only been running the tripod in the day for about a year. I got a good friend in Nebraska we go out there with all the time and uh hunted with him I guess back in January and had no problem killing off tripod. You know, even you know how it is sitting out west, you're up against a yucka on a bank or you're up against a fence post out in the middle of nowhere and um you know I've I've really I've had no problems as far as that goes and really enjoyed them. Well, you know, I shouldn't say the sky's is not the limit when it comes to shooting rest, but you know, your knee is free. It's pretty cheap to get into most of you shooting sticks and bipods and stuff. Um, there is some very very affordable uh tripods out there. turn course, you can pretty easy spend well over a,000 bucks on a tripod shooting system as well. But uh um long as it [clears throat] keeps you steady and you're happy with it, you know, keep keep running it far as that goes. I do think it is a crucial item for today's coyote hunter. Uh having some form of shooting rest cuz what what's the point in having a nice accurate rifle and very uh you know accurate uh ammo to shoot through it? Um, and then you know, put your high dollar thermal or something on there and then you can't hold it steady. [laughter] Well, that's the thing, you know, and taking people that try to hold rifles on their legs just in the past when, you know, you used to take a lot of people and stuff and Yeah, man. There were some easy shots missed just cuz you get tore up when a coach's running in at 50 yards. Yeah. And the thing is, I mean, you can still miss them off a tripod. [laughter] Sure. Hey, I I want to back back up here a little bit. You mentioned something about a screwing two tobaca sticks together. You know, people outside of Kentucky, North Carolina, Tennessee don't even know what a tobaca stick is. Well, I didn't think about that. You thought this just for Kentucky audience, didn't you? Well, it just you get so used to where I grew up, you know, at when I was a kid, there was tobaca in every field. Yeah, there's tobaca sticks in this house. wife's got some kind of thing she's made decorative thing and it's made out of tobacco sticks in here. [laughter] There's still, you know, I'll you hunt some farms every once in a while or you know some places I deer hunt and stuff like that, park sidees and tobacco barns and stuff like that to hide them and there still be old stacks of tobaca sticks in there and it's just like man all the kind of memories from when I was a kid and stuff like that. Yeah. Well, let's move on to uh this next one's a big one. a big one for me. Uh like I said, we're coyote callers, so you got to talk about predator calls. Uh and there is a pretty range and cost for for calls because you can strictly uh hand call with um and mouth call with diaphragms, closed reads, open reads, and all that type stuff. And you can also run e- calls, which we know is going to get you into a little bit more money. Um, you know, you can be in it as cheap as 15 bucks with some diaphragms, or you can be into it with what, $1,500 plus with an X360 and buying every new sound file that that comes out um from whenever. But, you know, where's where's the happy medium? Um, yeah. I mean and that once again that kind of comes down to you know when people reach out because you know how it is that you know you'll get a bunch of those looking into a call what should I get and the first question always for me is how often are you going to go and what is your budget you know and you know the guy that coyote calls you know three times a year probably doesn't need to spend $1500 on the call um you know or there's no reason to stretch yourself thin over a call because we have so many great options even in the e- call world because that's another thing now that you can get some absolutely amazing sound quality out of a call that doesn't cost you $700. You know what I mean? Yep. And and so I think you know when I first started out uh my first Fox Pro uh was the Banshee. Looked like the TS24 but it ran the older style the what was it? The 915 remote. Yep. And man, I killed I couldn't tell you how many coaches with that call. Absolutely love that call. The sound quality was good for the time, you know, was loud as could be. Um, and I would hate to know the amount of coyotes that died in front of that call. I bought that call. I think at that time when I bought it, they were right at 300 bucks or something like that. And, you know, before that, you know, I had ran some cheaper e calls and even hand called. I think my first I guess intro to coyote hunting was uh you remember when Primos used to sell coyote calls at Walmart. That was when I kind of got into it and uh ran some hand calls you know as a kid just pitting around didn't have hardly nothing in them and like you know just kind of always upgrading and took it more serious you know on down the road and I ran I think every call that you know we at FoxPro offer and you know had great luck. Like I say, that Banshee was as budget as it got, and that call did me good and never let me down. I've still got it sitting back here on the shelf right now. Oh, you could you could still take the Banshee out and call coyotes. You could take that the old FX3, the original, the old 416s, anything, and still call coyotes. And of course, you know, I know I know of some guys that just strictly are still hand callers. You know, they just they just have a passion for that and kill a lot of coyotes. Um, there's nothing wrong with with having a, you know, a nice unit, let's say, a X360, a $1,500 call, and buying a ton of sound files. There's nothing there's nothing wrong with that. I love the X360, and I've got it loaded up with sounds myself. So, there's definitely nothing wrong with that. I will for somebody that's going to be it's kind of like that. I think there's a happy medium for everything. Now, if you if you got plenty of money and don't care to spend it on stuff, by all means, buy the best of everything. Buy the best of everything. I ain't I ain't saying don't do it. I'm not saying, you know, if you buy what you can afford and be happy with, but for a lot of this stuff, I think there is that that happy medium. And I will kind of tell people I would suggest to stay away from the low end. uh if you're going to be serious into it, if you're just if you're locked into predator hunting and uh you know, a lot of people will buy like a Prowler or Patriot and those are very I've killed coyotes with them. I mean, and I would not be afraid to take one out this evening. Uh but if you're going to be a diehard dedicated coyote hunter, there's nothing wrong with using those units getting started out and stuff like that, but if you're going to get deep into it, you're you probably going to find yourself upgrading. Um, and I think that, you know, that happy medium is going to be in like that Fox Pro, uh, Hellcat Pro to X24 range. You know, the X24 is pretty much become the standard nowadays for predator calls and wins the bulk of coyote tournaments across the country. Yeah. I mean, for me, it's probably I mean, like you know how it is for both of me and you, the CS24 was definitely like I love that call. It just holds a special place because the things I did with that call, but as far as the, you know, the X24, I mean, it really, you know, still to this day, I mean, I have an X360, I have, you know, [clears throat] I think I have about every call we offer. And you know, I still that's the one that is in my dayack right now that I will take and I will run. That call has been shot. It's been picked up by coaches. It's been flipped over. It's fell out of trucks and it is just so consistent. And you know, yeah, if you're going to be a guy that this is going to be something you're going to take passionate, you know, definitely it's worth looking into those calls that take the TX1000 or the TX2000 remote. It's, you know, the sound quality is there, the durability of the call. But, you know, if a guy calls me and he says, you know, hey, after deer season, I'm going to call my farm one or two times a year, I'm not going to try to lean that guy into buying a, you know, even a $600 700 call. You know, that guy could probably be happy with the Patriot or with one of the lower end calls and be just fine and kill coyotes or bobcats or whatever he's after. Yeah. Yeah. No, you said it perfect right there. I I totally agree with that. You know, it's because you can you can take you can take the old Patriot, you can take the Prowler that we have now. You can take the old Spitfire that was like the original unit of that size and you can go kill a ton of stuff with it right now. I've killed tons of stuff with it in the past. Um, I also kill a lot of stuff with the X360. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. It's like, you know, why do you take the X360 if you can do it with a Spitfire? Well, I like the remote. I like how much louder it is. I like the sound quality. I like the features. I like the remote. You know, just it just list keeps going on and on and on. Uh but you know, there is like I said, if you told me all I could ever run for the rest of my life is X24, man, I'd be happy. You'd never see me complain. I would take it and and burn coyotes up wherever I go. Wherever I go. Exactly. So, and you were talking about, you know, coyote tournaments one and stuff. I mean, that's you're definitely running and gun type hunting when you're in those situations. It's that's such a hard call to beat, man. They're so tough. The battery life's so good. I Everything about it is just it's hands down, it's my favorite. It's like I said, it is the standard. It is the standard. So, we've talked about we've talked about e- calls or just predator calls in general here. We've talked about shooting rest, optics, firearms, and ammo. That's pretty much if you got those things, you're ready to go call and kill coyotes. Um, I think we got enough time to cover it. I think we won't cover this very much, but let's talk about suppressors. Suppressor is definitely not a needed thing, but man, it sure makes hunting nice. It's not, you know what I mean? It's not nice, but it's or it's not needed, but it sure is is nice. Something I'll say about suppressors, as long as you got what I'm looking for in a suppressor is something light, quiet, short, affordable. Yeah. And I mean now in today's market and you can get all those things pretty easily in today's market. Yeah. Because that is one thing I will advise people against. You see so many suppressors that cost way over 1,500 bucks. 1,500 bucks plus. Not needed. No, definitely not. Not needed. I know there's some nice suppressors out there for some of the AR guys that you know that the baffle stuff. I understand that. But man, a lot of money. You can take suppressors that cost half that and they'll outperform them. Well, I was just about to add to that. My least favorite suppressor I own is my most expensive one. Me too. Me too. Oh, my the high man. Yes, it's crazy. It is crazy. My highest dollar suppressor I like my cheapest suppressor I've got more than I do my highest dollar suppressor. Yeah. I like right now um you know I would say the suppressor that I run most you know just because you were talking about light. Light's a big thing especially if you're going to be doing a whole lot of walking. Um, and then just balancing out a rifle. I mean, and my suppressor that I lean to, it might not be the cheapest I own, but I can promise you it's down real close to it. Man, I got my most expens every suppressor I've got is on a rifle right now except for one, and it's the highest end one. And it ain't coming back out of the box. [laughter] Come back out of the safe. And I, you know, everybody That's sad, isn't it? It is. And I mean, you know, I've had a ton of them and I've been fortunate enough to been around just, you know, people that had different ones that we could experiment and run, you know, so I've been sitting behind a bunch of them and like I say, that is one thing, you know, cuz that's definitely they've grown in popularity for sure in the last couple years. Um, and I think they will continue to with the ease of getting them and quick turnaround times. Um, and you know, hopefully even maybe get to a point where it's no longer an NFA item. But, um, either way, you know, I'm to the point now, to be dead honest with you, that I don't want to hunt with somebody that doesn't have one. Nah. Yeah. You got to like uh I think what Brandon Maxwell said, a diligent defense, he said, he he considers it being civilized is you running a suppressor. It just, you know, it's good manners. Well, man, like you know, so you've been to my house and my shooting table is literally at the back corner of my house. I can go out there with any of these rifles and it's not rattling the walls or the kids are in their rooms playing, you know, whatever. And that's another Yeah. And that's another big thing, though, too, is like getting my kids into shooting sports is so much easier with suppressed rifles. Oh, it helps. For sure. For sure. Well, like I said, we won't we won't include that in the word to cut cost because even how nice they are, they're they're not actually needed. They're not right. You don't have to have it. So, the question is, if you were needing to save some money, Gage, what area, what part of coyote hunting would you cut cost on? And we're going to say it's going to be in between your firearm, the ammo, your optics, your shooting rest, and the calls that you're running. Where which category where you going to be uh what are you going to be cutting cost? I'm probably going to get ate up for this because I probably haven't posted a picture without a custom rifle in it in the last five years, but I believe firearm. Yeah. Well, tell me why. Because now with the options that are available in the sub $1,000 range, now this I'm not picking out a brand here. I'm not throwing a plug to Ruger or anybody else, you know. It's just the rifles that are available in the sub $1,000 range that will shoot less than a one in group at 100 yards with factory ammunition. It's insane. Now, most rifles made will shoot a sub MOA group. And so now, like I said, I'm I'm going to catch some heat for it cuz every rifle that I own except for probably five or six is a custom gun. You don't have to have it. So, if we're getting into the I'm a guy, I called you. What do I need to get into this sport? That's your biggest dollar fordoll savings because I could tell you that, you know, we could cut cost in a call and save you a couple hundred bucks. I tell you, we cutting cost in a rifle, I can save you thousands. Yeah. And and so just, you know, by actual physical, like where could be my biggest savings at that would probably be it. That's interesting. I tell you one reason why it's interesting is because that was my choice as well. [laughter] Well, there you go. Well, and I tell you I tell you I tell you my reason. And uh if you'd asked me this 5 years ago, I'd la if you if you if I'd asked you that 5 years ago and you told me that that response, I'd laugh at you. Yeah. But what happened five years ago? I've got a few custom rifles. Used to work with a custom rifle manufacturer who was a good friend of mine and builds excellent rifles. Gage has got one of them. Things shoot lights out. They fit me perfect. I had them built with the components that suited me. You know what I mean? And there still is that in that custom world cuz something that just that runs smooth for you, that fits you just perfect, all that matters. All that matters. And that's where I think that's where the custom firearm world really shines. Um, all of them shoot great, but five years ago, we just mentioned it here earlier when they sent me this Gen One Ruger American. Thing looks horrible. Ugliest rifle I own. It really It don't look good. [laughter] It don't look good. [clears throat] I don't clean it. It's got rust on it, you know. It It's just It's just a a cheap rifle. Like you buy them for 500 something bucks. Yes, sir. I put that little pode on there. Shot few rounds to it. And uh anyway, broke in good good shooting this factory 55 grain V-Max. You can throw this thing on a bench. You can have and I put put this up against anybody. We need to put somebody on there that can shoot it real good because sometimes I don't always shoot good. But you can take a 6,000 7,000 whatever how much money you can get into a custom rifle and this $500 and some dollar Ruger American Gen One will shoot right with it or possibly outshoot it. This thing literally shoots a little jagged hole group. It's the most amazing thing ever. I have people ask me all the time, "Why are you still shooting that old ugly Gen One?" Well, if you knew how good it shot [laughter] the answer. Well, and and just something you touched on right there, and like I say, because people will try to eat you up about that, too. The rifle shooter, you know, we're talking about just your average guy, you know, we're not talking about a guy that's put 5,000 rounds through the same rifle or spins, you know, the number of guys that shoot over 2,000 rounds a year, even it, you're talking about the 1% of shooters. So, you know, you put a custom rifle in those guys hands that they built the ammo for, that they built this for, yeah, by all means, that rifle might outperform it. But if you're just getting into the sport, which in my opinion would mean that you're not like a seasoned shooter in that case, and you're just trying to get into something that will shoot good, shoot lights out for a budget, I mean, that that's hard to beat. That gun at factory ammo sitting on a bench, you know, you can't beat it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's I think if there's an area where you want to cut cost, I think because that's the thing. I can I can take this g I can take one of these custom rifles I got in here. There's one of them in here. It's a 22 Creed that if I put it up for sale, I could sell it for over 6,000 bucks. Yeah. You know, it's titanium, carbon, everything. And it it shoots excellent. Well, guess what? This gun will run right with it. It don't look as good and doesn't may not fit me exactly how I want it to, but I shoot it good. You know, it's it's that's where I would save the money at, you know, get you a good, you know, and there's many ways to break this down. Um, you know, it comes to the e- call stuff. Um, yeah, you can save money off a X360 if you, you know, if you don't want to spend 1,500 bucks, you can you can get into that X24 and run with the best of them. Run with you got just as good chance on equal ground with equal amount of coyotes. You got just as much chance to win that tournament with the X24. You know, it's X24 is excellent. Now, it's not the cheapest, but it saves you money off a off of X360. Uh, right. When it comes to the shooting stick stuff, uh, shooting rest, man, I've really come to like the tripods. I never thought I would like it, but I do like the tripods. And, uh, you know, I don't know have much experience with some of these cheaper cheaper tripods. Uh, but I definitely would take a good tripod over a cheap over your tobaca stick screwed together. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? So I um ammo stuff I talked about earlier. There's a lot of there's a lot of good affordable ammo that that is just it's just good stuff. It's just good stuff and you can save some money over trying to go man. If you went and started in reloading right now, bought your press, your dice, all you, you know, if you want to get the auto charger for your powder, I mean, just the scales, just the list goes on and on and on and on. All the stuff you get into, you're talking about a lot of money. It's not a few hundred bucks. It's thousands of dollars. So, you're not saving money thinking you're just going to go jump in and reload, you know. So, I don't know. I think rifles rifle's where it's at. Yeah. I mean, when we get back to talking about just at the end of the day, the dollar amount you're saving, I think that's your biggest savings by far. What about uh what about what would be second for you? Second for me would probably be optic because like we talked about before now we're getting into an age where there's so many middle-of the road scopes that you know and not saying that cuz let's face it I mean especially for me I mean you know when my budget got better I I bought higherend scopes for sure I leaned more towards those scopes and then like I say I got used to them but um there's a lot of those $3 to $600 scopes now that will hold a great zero, take a beating like a champ. Um, if you dial up for yardages instead of knowing your holdovers, they track very well. Um, you know, in the thermal game where we touched on a lot earlier that, you know, a lot of these, you know, lower dollar 640 units and 384 units are really great for what you're getting for the price. And so, you know, that's another place that I really feel like you could save some money. You don't have to buy the absolute best of the best unless it fits your budget. Um, and you could kill just the same. Yeah. Yeah. I I'd probably uh I'd probably agree I'd probably agree with that with that too. Um, you I'll speak you done mentioning it for the thermal stuff. It's just like for uh the daytime stuff. I'm I'm kind of shooting a middle nowadays is middle of the road scope at BX5 for around,000 bucks. But [gasps] was talking about a VX3 earlier. Uh you can talk you single out any brand you want. Uh but I would had no problem taking a VX34 $500 scope and I could do pretty good with it because I I'll trust it. And like I said, just something that's going to be repeatable that's going to hold at zero is my my biggest thing, you know. So, you know, there's a and then probably like the third thing would almost probably be the ammo. Um, you know, just [clears throat] because I know I can go buy a box of Hornady off the shelf and I ain't got to worry about it, you know, don't cost a fortune. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because I mean, even even if you already had all the reloading stuff or say it was a circumstance where, you know, a family member left you down with, you know, some old reloading stuff, just buying the components to make a bullet now, it's it's all out of hand as far as cost goes. I mean, unless like in my case, just being dead honest with you, I I do enjoy reloading. Um, it's not something that I just jump to do anymore. Uh, but I do still enjoy it. But a lot of my guns are, you know, Wildcat calibers or things like that or they're a specific bullet that I'm building for a specific game and yardage and things like that. And so that's kind of the reason that I still reload as much because I'll tell you right now in your basic bullets that you can buy in a store, man, there's so so many good options out there now that it's just, you know, we can, you know, you can always do maybe better here and there, but as far as for the majority of the population, it's hard to beat. Man, I don't care if I ever reload again. I said it earlier. Yeah. And [clears throat] really the only reason I was reloading earlier on was because of the 22 Creed. There was no factory ammo out there. And I will say I for all you 22 Creed shooters is that shooting factory. I still don't think the factory stuff's there where it needs to be. [laughter] You know, I like uh the you know, I don't shoot a 22 Creed no more. Um yeah, I did reload some for his 22 250 earlier on. Um, but I, you know, I have no need to do it no more. Actually, the next time I see you, I probably going to give you like 2,000 large rifle primers. [laughter] That's how that's how you know what I mean. That's what that's that's my future of reloading is giving is giving Gage Bohan and the primers I have left over. It's [snorts] funny you said that about the 22 Creed though because that was actually the round that kind of got me into doing it is when it first come out and you know you had one I don't know a few months before I did and that was kind of where I was like oh man that sounds awesome. And you had to reload. You had to reload. Yeah. And I actually went the opposite way. You know a lot of people then at that time were running heavies and I went straight to lights because I you know I just like seeing speed numbers on chronograph I guess. But um I went straight to the lights and so that's why I still you know even with all the great factory options for it now and you know some people's opinion I I don't think it's quite hot enough and I I do like the lighter round and so I still I load a a light 22 Creed. Yeah that's Yeah, I don't know. We that's that's a whole another podcast right there. We can Oh yeah, you could I can tell you a lot of stuff I don't understand about 22 Creed stuff. Yeah, I I agree. That's definitely one that like like people like just for example like people who do shoot a 22 Creed and who do reload for it but shoot it slow that shoot it slower than what you could shoot the 22 250. That don't make no sense. Nope. I agree. If you're listening and you're one of those guys, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings, but think about it. Why Why would you Why would you shoot something that's supposed to be faster and make it shoot slower? I agree. Don't make no sense. Anyway, so you're going to save money on your rifle. That's where I'm going to save money at. I think that's a pretty pretty good piece of advice. And actually what I told that gentleman was that when we had the conversation and it made me think about the archery world, um, you know, I like a new bow. I like a new bow. You know, I buy one. Used to get one every single year. But I tell you what, I bet I could kill just as many deer just as easy if I went back to my old Matthews MQ1 or Matthews LX. Yeah. Uh you Matthews LX or Legacy? I can't remember what it was called, but time ago. A long time ago. Yeah. [snorts] And you know, that's another one of those things. I'm not a I shoot a lot of really nice rifle. I shoot really nice bows, too. But I'm not a new bow every year guy. I'm normally uh I'll run a bow even five or six years, like if I find a bow that really fits me and I kill good with [snorts] um well like you know up until 24 I guess cuz that was I killed mega with a tracks. I ran that bow from when it was new till 24 and then that was the last Didn't you get that thing from Jordan? Yeah, I bought it from Jordan. Yeah, he had it for like 6 months and I bought it from him. Um, he's trying to he's probably trying to shoot it upside down or something. Don't talk bad about him. He did me good on it. And I killed so many deer with that bow, man. And I had a new bow sitting here, but I won't change midseason. And um, you know, I now I don't even shoot the newest bow now. They've got the arc and everything. I'm still shooting the lift. Um, and I killed my deer with it last year. I really I do like this bow because the axle to axle is a little bit longer than my tracks. But man, it's lighter. These new bows keep getting lighter. So, I will say I do like a new bow. But man, I'll tell you right now, if you want to just go number for numbers, I probably killed more deer with a bare charge than I have with anything I own. Yeah. Yeah. I I know this isn't an archery podcast, but I'll tell you the second spot I'd save money on in archery. This is going the wrong direction, but is arrows. Yes, man. I have people used to have people make fun of me about my carbon express arrows. There has been there has been arrows that I have used where I've killed like four deer straight with the same arrow. I'd shoot a deer, screw a new broadhead on it, go shoot another deer. [snorts] Take that arrow, screw another broadhead on it, maybe put another knock on it because it got bos that it got busted. Shoot another deer with it. I've shot elk with Carbon Express $6 shaft arrows. Well, I still shoot a cheap arrow. I I still to this day shoot a cheap standard diameter arrow. People tell, "Oh, you got to do this so you can get that." Like, you're not listening to me. I shot that elk at 55 yards. Yep. It did not break. I pulled it out, brought it back to Kentucky, and shot my buck in November with it. [laughter] Yep. Man, don't give me that's I we could that's another rabbit hole, but I definitely the arrow thing blows my mind these days. I mean, it's not like we're going out here and doing an ibo shoot. We're shooting deer, you know. And in Kentucky, most Yeah. Most cases in Kentucky, if you're shooting over 40 yards, you set up wasn't right, you know. [laughter] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, man. Well, Gage, I appreciate you coming on here. You need to go back in there and get turning wrenches. [snorts] Yes, sir. I appreciate y'all having me. Yeah, man. Yeah, man. What say you fishing tonight? H possibly. If everything goes good for the day and you know, uh water levels, you know, chart looks good. I don't know what color is. I haven't got to run down there and look at it, but um if that water's stable and has that little bump in it and the temperature's been good, I'd say they'll be up. So, might give it a go. All right. Well, good luck this evening. We hope everyone enjoyed this episode. We hope you join us again here on the Fox Pro podcast.