In this episode, Jon Collins sits down with Tim Lesser of Leupold to discuss daytime optics for coyote hunting.
Welcome to the FoxPro podcast brought to you by Fox Pro game calls. Welcome to another episode of the FoxPro podcast. Today we are discussing daytime scopes and other optics for coyote hunting. Our guest is Tim Leser of Lupode Optics. Tim, welcome to the Fox Pro podcast. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here and and talk about some of this stuff. It's a lot of fun, so I uh I appreciate the opportunity. Yes, sir. We appreciate you. Appreciate you coming on. Going to be a big help. Uh if you don't mind, tell us a little bit about yourself, Tim, and give us a brief history lesson on Loop. Okay. Um yeah, for for me, uh kind of a I think a fairly common um story for for as far as hunting, you know, kind of did the did the usual thing. grew up with a a father and a family that hunted and um just as a little kid couldn't wait to be, you know, big enough to carry my own rifle, do do what the big boys did, right? And so, Right. Yeah. I was fortunate in that aspect in that it was always kind of a part of of life and some of those barriers to entry um I just grew up with, right? I I had somebody that knew how to take me where to go, how to show me how to sight in a rifle, teach me about, you know, the various different things and and get me started. And boy, once that hook was set, uh there's no getting rid of it. And so I tried to pass that on with my kids. And um briefly, that that led me to just loving it so much. And I I grew up hunting in western Washington, which can be a little bit of a challenge just because of the density of the cover. Um there's lots of critters, but you can't you can't really glass very far or watch cuts. And if you do watch a cut, then it kind of looks like a pumpkin patch. Um because there's so many people wearing orange watching the same clearcut, right? Um so kind of a tough kind of a tough go, you know. Not to cut you off, but it's kind of unique. It's first time I've had somebody on here that that grew up hunting in Western Washington, and that's a pretty that's a pretty unique uh landscape there. I mean, parts of that country is like practically a rainforest, isn't it? It it is. We used to joke uh a little bit about that because one of the kind of old tricks was you could figure out north by looking at which side of the tree had moss growing on it. And uh when you when you try to do that in western Washington, you're going to be very confused because the entire tree is covered in moss. 360 degrees, right? I'm not sure if I'm on the North Pole or the South Pole, but I'm nowhere in between. Um yes. Yes. But it uh you know, you learn things like tracking and and some of that, but um what I would say is that the success rates are just a little bit lower uh in in general, especially when you're taking you know I'm referring to myself as a as a you're hunting with a primitive weapon, right? You've got a a newbie with you that doesn't want to sit still, doesn't want to keep quiet, you know, all the things that kids don't want to do. They want to eat snacks and and stuff and Right. But we loved it, right? It's it's not about that. It's about the camaraderie and the other stuff. But I I had the bug and I was extra fortunate in that we had an outfitter in our family. My dad is from Wyoming, grew up in Wyoming. Um, and once he saw that I had the bug for this, I would get shipped off. I looked forward to it. Like the best summer camp ever. I'd go stay with relatives in central Wyoming and then then you just got handed a rifle and just be back you know around dark and you could go walk the hills and you know just jump shoot foxes and coyotes and you know the there was a season for cotton tails but not for jack rabbits and and it was just a whole eye opening experience for me that you could go out and on purpose probably have success and uh and then I started working my cousin was an outfitter so when I got old enough and got in college, went to school in Wyoming, got the once I saw that, I was like, "This this must be heaven. I've got to I'm going there." Right. Right. Um, and of course there's lots of good places, but that was the first one where I saw kind of just everything open up and man, you can do this all the time. Uh so I went and worked went and worked for an outfitter and uh and that was a kind of a very steep learning curve but that just set the hook even farther and ultimately led to my role here because we were guiding people from Loophold and I I saw the the dynamic of the employees and so for for that component that's how I was very blessed very fortunate to kind of just be in the right place at the right time around the right people. Um yep so that was great. Um, and then did you want me to jump into a little bit on the company? I think people are more interested in that than me, you know. I think I I think uh most people that tune in uh definitely know a quite a bit about Loopho, but they might not know I think it'd be good to touch on a little bit of the history of Lupole if you don't mind. No, no, not at all. It's a it's a pretty pretty interesting pretty cool uh history. So we started as a as a brand called Loophold and Vulpel and it was an instruments company. And so if you think back to our founders, they met on the east coast. You just think about how immigration into the US happened um at at that time, turn of the century. Um and uh you know, so a lot of east coast and they worked at an instruments company, engineering, scientific instruments, etc. And a couple of folks there hit it off. And you think also about westward expansion and coming across and the need for things like water level measurement equipment um transits, compasses, some of those types of instruments. Yeah. Um that's ultimately how we ended up in Portland. Think about the Oregon Trail and where it comes through. Uh and so they came over here and opened up Loophold and Vulpel. So they'd worked at a different instrument shop, came over here, um started their own in Portland. Um, and it expanded into things like firefinders. So, you're up in a in a firewatch tower looking over this terrain. How do you tell somebody where there's a fire? So, this is a right a 3D map with a grid on it, right? And you can go, okay, it's three bumps over there and then one to the right and then you can look down and say that's this grid coordinate and then get somebody out there. Um, and so that was the the primary business. And then one of the one of the founders sons, his wife actually. So we fast forward a little bit. His wife was a big hunter. Got him into hunting and he had a got the bug like we all do and then he he lost an opportunity because his rifle scope fogged up. And he's sitting there going, "Man, we know how to make instruments that don't fog up. I can" And so there's a line you'll see in our factory. It just says, "Hell, I can make a better rifle scope than this." And that was the beginning, right? a lost opportunity or or something, you know, painful, not physically painful, but but some kind of a a problem to overcome is how a lot of problems were solved. And uh Right. Right. nights, weekends, it became a passion thing like I can I can do better than this. And it wasn't even wasn't the primary business. It was just I want to go solve this need and uh and found a way to do that. So those first scopes didn't have any adjustments in them. um you know they were mechanically adjusted and and then over time uh that became a a larger chunk of the business then became the primary business and a lot of firsts were invented duplex reticles where it's fat posts on the outside and skinny in the middle and yep nitrogen purging that was that was the main thing right is just get the moisture out of the scope and keep it sealed and now it can't fog on the inside right you know and that is phys that is physical pain if Especially in the the big game hunting world, you you've worked your tail off and you have that uh finally get that chance at the animal you've been hunting for for days, possibly weeks or or months, and then you pull your scope up and man, you can't see nothing. It's fogged up. That's There's pain there, Tim. There there is. That's a lesson you really only need to learn once, right? And that Yes. that kind of ultimately led to why why you see gold rings on our rifle scopes. Um, the engineers thought that was a little crazy at the time, but but it was the the seal of of, you know, quality. And so that was a symbol of uh kind of the beginning of this lifetime warranty that's out there everywhere. We we put a little different twist on it in that we're guaranteeing it to perform so that you don't lose that opportunity as opposed to guaranteeing to replace it when it, you know, when it does fail. Um, but it became that seal of I don't want this to happen to anybody ever again. So, how do we make the best dang optic so that when you put in the hard work, you don't even have to think about your gear, right? Go enjoy the time that you get. And when you put in all that hard work, it should come together and be seamless. You shouldn't have to think about the gear at all. Should just it should just work the first time, every time is what I what I say. Exactly. We actually just our uh last podcast that we'd put out uh optics came up in the podcast and one of the things I talked about said you know I was talking about a luode scope that I I actually talked about two different luode scopes. I was talking about a scope that uh my dad had passed down. He had passed down a u old model 700 Remington uh rifle with a VX3 VX3 uh that was purchased in 1984. And I remember my dad had told me he said the only time that the caps have been off on that scope were to sight it in. And he'd hunted Colorado and Wyoming and just all over the country. He was a he was a big game hunter and just went everywhere. And then he passed that rifle down to me. He kind of lost his thirst for blood, I guess you could say. Handed the rifle down to me. I took it all over the place. I've had it in Maine, in Oregon, in Wyoming. I've had it everywhere. I have never touched the scope caps on it. It was sighted in in 1984 and it's something you can depend on. I could go get it out of the safe right now, total confidence in it. And the same thing was talking about um a VX5 HD that I've got on a 22250. It was put on there five or six years ago and it has literally been all over the world. Been in airplanes, been a no telling how many vehicles on two tracks bumping up and down on my back riding four-wheelers, electric bikes, been side by sides. I mean, it's been treated rough. Sure. Rough as they can be treated. never had to never had to take the caps off to recite it in. And that's I depend that's something I depend on. And I mentioned in there it's like, you know, it's kind of like talking about a scope that would fog up. I can handle me failing. If I fail somewhere, say I miss a shot and it's because I pulled the shot or or rushed a shot or whatever, I can live with that. But if I have equipment failure, it's hard for me to take that. I I cannot stand equipment failure and my scopes that I run I there no thought there of them failing. I mean it's just something I trust and always have. So I understand that. That's great. No and then that's the goal every day, right? And and to get better every day on all of that and compound learnings and all of that, man, we don't we just don't get enough time to go do these things. And so I'm I'm 100% with you. I don't like it when I mess up, but Right. But but it happens and I get incredibly frustrated if a piece of my equipment cost me something else. I it just it doubles or triples. So we that's our goal is to make sure that that that's not the the weak link. That's not the failure point that it is just a uh hopefully not even an afterthought. It's just you get to go go back and say how well everything went. That's yep y that's what you want. Well, Tim, you was talking about, you know, you grew up hunting in in western Washington and then you ended up there in central Wyoming. I've got a brother lives in central Wyoming. He lives there in Casper. So, I know that country very very well. Uh definitely two totally different terrains. Yes. Between the two places. Um are was you did you do much coyote hunting in in Wyoming? Are you a coyote hunter? I am. Yeah. I I I got that. Um I had not done that growing up. So that was not something, you know, if you go back and look at my father's upbringing, he he was raised near Cheyenne. It is now Cheyenne, but he was 2 miles from the nearest structure as a kid. And so a lot of it was what we would call subsistence. They had farm animals, but they had a there was a little pond there. And so they shot ducks and geese for subsistence, but they lived on deer, elk, analopee, better things. And uh I don't want to say survival was the the main piece of that, but it but it was more of a um more of a subsistence thing than a hobby. And so you that coyote hunting wasn't something that they did. If they had time, they were they were working on other things. They were they were busy and just trying to to make sure that ends were meeting. So that was new to me when I started guiding. Um and my my cousin that was the outfitter there, he loved it. And so, you know, I I hadn't thought of this. I you know I it wasn't something I knew much about and he took me once or twice and the first time that you see a coyote charging in man I don't I don't know that that opened my eyes to why you want to hunt bull elk in the rut because we were rifle hunters so I hadn't done that. Right. Right. It made turkey scent hunting make a lot more sense and and I got probably more into coyote hunting than the big game side of it. Um happens to a lot of us. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you can go do it. You know, it was harder for us. So, that was one of the things that we started offering. Um, we're just trying to stretch seasons and stretch where you can work, right? So, we started offering winter hunts for various predators, coyotes, bobcats, other things. And honestly, the most challenging thing to do for us on purpose was get somebody a coyote. You know, you you can see elk from a long ways away and go position yourself, but learning what do these vocalizations mean? you know, oh, I just got busted. I'm gonna I need to not even waste my time here or I need to set up o overlooking this country and how far do I move the thought process and the planning that goes into a good setup and all those things just really peeled that layer back. So I went from can I find animals and how do I do that to when I went to the predator hunting stuff it's much more about what does a successful process look like and right how how do they think if thinking is the right word but h how do they act and behave and respond to various things and so it was more of the why than the how like why would they do this or that right right and I think it's like any subject when you when you need to go deeper you start going down that that rabbit hole and For me, that was the end of it, you know. So, I spent I always look forward to big game hunting. I still do. I love that. Um, but the predator side of it, particularly coyotes, um, was just it, it's different depending on the time of the year. Are they singles? Are they doubles? Is it, you know, is it the whole group? Are you getting breeding pairs? Um, all of that just keeps kind of the mental u I don't know tenacity and exercise to get better on that every day is different than I I don't want to talk down on, you know, analopee hunting, but they're out there. They're there. You can see everything that's there. You can judge them. You can make a a plan. You don't just go out and go, "Oh, I see some coyotes over there, and I'm going to go over and make a move on them." That that is not going to work. Right. So, Right. Exactly. Exactly. No, it's it's uh it you know, we've talked we've I've made this comment no tell how many times. It just seems like actually hunting any any animal that you can call to you and especially coyotes, it just has a way of getting in your blood and once it does, it's there to stay. It takes hold pretty quick. Yes, it does. Um so like for today is you know what are your favorite what is your favorite animal to hunt? Are you are you mainly big ga a big game hunter nowadays or you still do plenty of coyote hunting or what's that look like for you being low so we're located in western Oregon um and we've got West Oregon in general is an amazing state so we have everything from high desert to coastal rainforest you know you've you've seen all this high plains you got it all you got it all yeah the the proximity here to so from from where I live it's you know it's going to be 30 minutes maybe to be in coast coastal country and yeah, and there are elk and blacktail everywhere out there. There are lots of coyotes, but the cover situation is more like the western Washington. And so you you need to be pretty on your game to be able to see the, you know, I always kind of tell people when we're calling in open country, look for something like a squirrel coming in. Don't look for a coyote. Look for like a squirrelsized critter because that brush is bigger than you think, right? When you start doing that in fern beds in dense cover or clear cut, they look more like mice coming in and they come in very timid as soon as they break any cover. So it's it's more challenging here. So generally what I find myself is in the fall hunting big game and then over the winters I'll make a little bit longer trip to get where my eyes can work a little bit better and where I can narrow down the uh the prime calling spots. But but I still do both. I get a I just get a huge kick out of out of calling coyotes. It's just a bigger a little bit bigger challenge in this rough country with the underbrush is taller than I am, right? And so it it becomes a bit of a challenge. I I've been asked many times, you know, what what is the toughest place to call coyotes? Where are the coyotes, you know, quote unquote the smartest? And, you know, I tell everybody that coyote is a coyote no matter where you go. But some of the states that I've had the toughest time uh for consistently calling in coyotes is a state like Oregon. And actually, it has been Oregon. And it's not because of the coyote itself. It's because of the terrain. And unless somebody goes out there and sees it like what you were just describing, you have no idea. You have no idea. And not just not just like that type of stuff like that kind of almost rainforesty type area of western Oregon. Even if you get into eastern Oregon, like the northeastern part, like up towards the Snake River and stuff like that, it's just a total different type of rough that you have to overcome to consistently call in coyote. So, Oregon is definitely one of those cool states. I think it's one of those sleeper states for for all game, it seems like. But it definitely has lots of challenges no matter what your hunt. Yeah, for sure. it. I think coyote hunting is probably still my favorite because you can take somebody and at least the way I do it may maybe it's right, maybe it's not, but it's it's been fairly effective for me is, you know, you go make a I'm going to call it a 15-minute stand. It depends what I hear or see throughout. Yep. But then I can pick up and move a couple miles and and make another stand. So, you're seeing terrain change. You're you're back in the truck or whatever it is moving. And so like bringing kids along, I love this because they can if they can hold still for 15 minutes, then they can have snacks in the truck and they can move on and go get warm and crack a soda or whatever it is and and then be serious for 15 minutes again. And with a nice electronic caller, you know, um you can My daughter was involved early. You just set it up to where any of the sounds on the single button push are going to work for where we're at. So here. Yes. Do something. Be involved. And then when one comes in, they're like, "Wait, I did that?" Whoa. That's right. That's right. Yeah. That gets them hooked fast. It does. So, I love that. I love that the most. If you were going to ask me just hands down, if I could only do one thing, probably be elk because of just because of the we we eat an elk a year already and I just they t they taste a lot better than the coyotes do. I haven't I haven't had the courage to try one yet. I'll take your word on that. I haven't I haven't either, but I I can imagine.
Well, we'll get to we'll get to the topic at hand. Um, and I'm pretty excited about this topic. As everyone that that tunes in knows, coyote hunters shoot more guns. Uh, they go through more ammo, put more optics to work than any other group of hunters. So, we practically have no offseason. Just like you were talking about before, you can go do it at any time. Um, while everyone else is dreaming of hunting season to get here, we're doing it, right? So, we literally hunt hunt 12 months out of the year. And, you know, we see questions on optics come up weekly. So, this is a great topic. Um, it's great to have you on here as a guest, Tim. And kind of like I was telling you before about dad passing down that old uh model 700 to me with that uh VX3 on it. Um, I was raised on Lupode. That's all I've ever had on any rifle. My dad started me out u at a very young age with a with Luode scope on the first rifle I ever had on a on a 22 rimfire. And then of course when I got into the big game stuff, that's what was on every single rifle. I've never had the need to run anything else or even try anything else. It just the need was just not there. I've trusted Loopho in my personal hunts and in my professional hunting career. So, let's get right to it. Tim, do you have any suggestions for how to choose the best scope for an individual's hunting style and hunting needs? I I do and I hate to do the copout answer of it depends, but but it it kind of does depending. It it does totally does. So, what I generally start with is, so we'll get questions about I'll just do a very basic one. I have a 300 six. What scope do I need? That's not necessarily how I would approach it. How how are you going to use the the rifle? What does your terrain look like? How far is your common shot? Is it going to be, you know, fastm moving things? You know, you you wouldn't use a high magnification scope for wing shooting, for example, right? You know, because the field of view is too small. So I I generally start with okay, how far are you shooting? How often are you shooting? How much are you carrying it? How much are you going to be? You know, so a competition shooter will shoot more than they carry. A big game hunter will carry more than they shoot. Um, and hopefully a coyote hunter is doing a lot of shooting as well. So I start with things like the size of the rifle, the terrain, and I get a feel for magnification is really where I'm headed for this. what what do you what do you prefer for your magnification setting to be? And then I want a range on either side of that. And daytime versus nighttime comes into it as well. Um yes, I hadn't done a lot of night hunting and I didn't see a big need for a lot of kind of high magnification and large objective right up until, you know, we were doing it with spotlights and you needed to cut through some of that and really see exactly what it was. So, that shifted my thinking a little bit, but um I generally do it by how much power do you need? And from there, I'll start making a recommendation on without getting too technical right out of the out of the gate here, a VX3 or a VX6 or a VX4 or a VX5. You're right. And and those numbers um just to, you know, to kind of reiterate what they are, that's a zoom ratio. So for the sake of this argument or this discussion, let's say all the scopes start on three power. That that's that's low enough on the bottom end. A VX3 will go from 3 to 9. The low power is three. 3 * 3 is 9. A VX4 3 * 4 is 12. So you get a 3 to 12. So realistically what you're doing is spreading that zoom range. So if they all started on three, you get a 3 to 9 or a 3 to 12 or a 3 to 15 or a 3 to 18. And in strictly western Oregon, I'm never going to turn it up beyond nine. I'm never even going to get to nine most likely. Right. Right. And so I don't need to put the extra um just call it out. The extra cost involved with getting all the way up to 18. Uh now if I'm in Texas and I may be calling long distances and they may hold up on a, you know, on a a pivot or just whatever the last piece of cover is. We haven't fooled them that well yet and they're holding up. I may have a 4 or 500 yard shot in the dark and I want that extra power to make to make darn sure that this isn't the wrong you I need target identification and and some of that. Oh, of course. Yeah. So, that's where I start and I start with the zoom range because across the board you're going to get the best optical performance whether it's a VX Freedom, a VX3 or a VX6 um in each of those price points. And what you're really paying for in the easiest, most simplistic terms is that extra zoom as you go. So that's where I start. Um I tend to go lower power. So my perfect coyote hunting scope is something like a 2 to2 um on a VX6. Yep. That's not perfect when I'm in big wide open long country. So the most balanced one I think is something like a 3 to 18. Um yes. And then if it's going to be night stuff, I may want a 4 to 24 because I'm Yeah, they're probably not going to be in less than 100 yards or less than 50 yards and that four power is still plenty low. So, I don't know. I'm kind of talking in circles on that, but I start with your ideal power. No, I think I think it makes total sense to me. I think I think for most coyote hunters and kind of speaking for myself, I guess, uh I think you got to find that happy medium. Uh, for me, the 3 to 15s and the 3 to 18s in those VX-5s and VX6s have always been ideal. Um, you can turn them down low enough where you can handle stuff at close range. And, you know, with the VX5 taking it up to 15 power or the six taking it up to 18, you've got enough magnification there to handle a little lengthy shot if you have to stretch that gun barrel out. So, I think for me that's always been, you know, we're coyote collars. You know, we're putting fox pros out there. Um, coyotes have got four legs. We've got two. We like making them come to us. A lot of times we're wanting them under 100 yards. But if they post up out there at 450 yards and think they're safe, I can crank either one of those scopes up to 15 and 18 and we're going to mow them down. Yep. And you know, for a coyote size animal, I know there's people shooting them a lot further than that, but you're talking about over 380 yards. you're starting talking about, you know, having to worry about elevation and wind drift and, you know, if you're off just by inch or two could mean the difference in in killing or not. So, you know that I for me that's that's the happy medium it for and like we was talking about earlier that's kind of how I asked it is me personally I think you have to kind of think about your style of hunting and like you were talking about what what the your actual need out of that scope's going to be. And for me those 3 to 15s 3 to 18s and the VX5 VX6s I think those are the perfect coyote collar scope in my opinion. I agree. And and and one of the things to think about um for me at least is the coyote never, no matter how often I set this up and think it out, never comes from where I thought it was going to. Sometimes it does and it's beautiful and everything works out great, but the eyebox. So, this is a a thing that without going completely into the engineering and and kind of the nerd side of it, think of the eyebox as that sweet spot behind the scope where your eye can be placed and you have a full field of view, a full picture. So, you don't get that shadowing. And I think we've all tried scopes where that feels very sensitive, very finicky, and you if you just move your head at all, you lose the sight picture. Lo get a get a lot of black. Yeah. and and I try not to move much because that generally results in me being very unsuccessful. Um so I set up and I'm on a bipod, whatever it is, trying to keep the gun I tend to do a lot of it either by myself or um with newer shooters and I like to have them stabilized, right? So they're not just going to pick the gun up. I want them on a bipod. Well, if that coyote comes in from just to the left or just to the right, rather than picking up the whole gun and moving it, you tend to find yourself trying to slide in behind it and kind of pivot. And having a bigger eyebox allows for a less comfortable shooting position, a little more awkward. Little uphill, little downhill, little left, little right. You're kind of leaning. And when you get into the the VX456, some of those, the one of the things that you're getting beyond the extra magnification is a larger, less sensitive eyebox. And that's done through optics. It does cost more to do that, but it's a side benefit that a lot of it comes from the military side of our business where you don't get to just set up perfectly and shoot from a bench. You have to shoot over a barricade, under a Humvee. It's always weird positions. Um, and so that is a carryover that's kind of an intangible that I think as you get up a little higher in the line that can mean success where you wouldn't have had it with other with other things. That's a that's a that's a great point right there. Uh cuz, you know, coyote hunting is about as fast-paced a hunting style there is, especially coyote calling. And we get into those situations where you got to pivot and get in awkward positions, twist, and you know, you might have coyotes come directly behind you. You're trying to twist around and you're all out of sorts and you know, um it's good when you've got a little leeway there with the scope's going to you go work for you to get more coyotes put on the ground. Yeah. So, that's a great point. I'm glad you brought that up. I That's something I didn't even think about. So, that's that's good stuff. Yeah, that that's a helpful one. you. They may start to circle earlier than you thought. I I can't tell you the number of times that the wind I just didn't read the wind quite right because there's no way that coyote could be right there, but it is right. Yep. Yep. Yep. So, what uh we you mentioned a scope earlier. You mentioned like a power like the 2 to 12 U. So, what would you pick like if I was going to take you say we were going to go coyote hunting and uh said I'm going to come pick you up in in Oregon and I'm we're going to drive to another state. I ain't going to tell you where it's at. We're just going to go coyote hunting. So, you need to pick up pick out the best scope for your, you know, just kind of like what I said earlier. I was talking about the VX5 and VX6 and those 3 to 15 and 3 to 18. Which scope would you pick just for all across the country coyote collar? You you nailed it. The ones you're using. So, VX5, 3 to 15. Um, I prefer the this the 44 millimeter objective. Uh, most of what I do is daylight, low light. Me, too. I can keep it mounted lower. It helps with that, keeping my cheek on the stock and keeping a good cheek weld. So, I like a little bit, you know, lower mounts. Um, and really between a 3 to 15 and a 3 to 18, that's a that's a toss up for me. The 3 to 15 is hand that VX5 HD is hands down the the most scope you can get for the money. The VX6, dude, that that thing that thing has turned into my favorite scope. I tell people that all the time. For bang for the buck, you cannot beat that. I've got multiple 3 to 15 by 44s. It's just I think that is the ideal coyote collars scope. I really do. Yeah. I And that's the one I would pick every day. If I was going with you and trying not to embarrass myself, I would go for the 3 to 18 just in case that extra power helped me. Um, but overall if I had to pick a scope, it's that VX5 HD 3 to 15 by 44 every single time. The odds of me needing more than 15 power are pretty low, right? Well, what about, you know, I mentioned earlier those opportunities you get to stretch your gun barrel out some and those longer shot opportunities. Um, say that that uh if you were going somewhere and that was going to be the norm, you were planning on shooting coyotes at a at a longer distance. Uh, are you still choosing the same scopes or are you picking something else out? I personally I still am. Um, what what ends up happening for me? Higher power is great um for stationary targets and and you may get a stationary you get one that hangs up and is communicating back at you, barking at you, whatever it is. You may get them stationary, but what it's almost a trap as you get up to the higher mags because if you go, let's just say I went to a 4 to 24, I may be tempted to use that and now my field of view is very small. I'm zoomed in. Right. Right. And as soon as the trigger breaks, I'm unlikely to have been in a perfect shooting position. So, I'm going to come off target anyway. It's going to run unless I did my job perfect. And now I'm trying to hunt around with a very small field of view and find that coyote again. And so you I use a baseball analogy on this where the camera can zoom out and you see the whole field or it can zoom in and you can read the pitcher's last name, but you have no idea who's who's on third or first. Right. Right. Right. Well, if I'm zoomed all the way in and I break the trigger, as soon as the scope's out of view or the coyote's out of that narrow field of view, I'm hunting around everywhere trying to find it again. So most of my shots, even on the longer ones, I tend to take at even when I zoom in 10 maybe 12 power, even at those 400 yard shots. And then if something holds up or it's in the brush, I'm like, is that really it standing there? Then I can dial dial up and get and get good about it. But um that there's no beating the physics of the farther you zoom in, the less you see around it. There's no way to there's no beating that. It's kind of funny that you that you mentioned that uh power magnification because like probably 80% of the time while I'm on a coyote stand, that's where I start. You know, it depends on the terrain and lay of the land, all that stuff, of course. But most of the time my scope is sitting on somewhere between eight and 10 power. Yeah. And oftent times I never touch it. You know, even if they run out there 60 yards, you know, you still got enough where you can see to get them knocked down and not get out of your your field of view. But that that's pretty interesting that you said it. I used to tell a buddy of mine that I could get away with a fixed 10 power because I probably run 10 power more than anything. Like you said, even if they're on out there, I don't go ahead and crank it on up to 15. I look at it and if I'm comfortable, I go ahead and send it. Now, if I feel like I need to zoom on in, of course, I can get up there and hit the throw lever and throw it on up to 15. But yeah, I'm on 10 a lot. It's a great It's a great balance there where you can still get on target. It still points right where you wanted it to. So when you when you just look at the coyote and go to the gun, he's going to be in your field of view. Yeah. And uh that that is where I think 90% of almost all critters are actually taken because there's just a human comfort with being able to see a little bit around your target still. Yes. Yes. Well, speaking of long range and different yardages, let's talk about range finders for predator hunting. you know, was talking about I mentioned earlier coyotes a pretty small target. So, knowing that exact yardage on some of those extended extended range shots is very crucial. Um, I have got sitting here right beside me a Luode RX5000 TBR thing. Awesome. Awesome. Won't you tell us a little bit about this? And uh I mean this is what I pack with me. It's got some really cool features. Got some new stuff that's on the way out there. if you want to tell everybody a little bit about this uh RX5000. You might and you might have a rangefinder that you like more, but I don't know how you could. Yeah. So, so um I'll circle back to there may be one that I like better that that really comes down to the same thing we talked about picking a scope. Right. Right. So, if I'm in Western Oregon, I may take a different one because that one's an eight power rangefinder and it works great for most coyote stuff. Yes. But if my um my shots are going to be in closer with a rifle, it doesn't matter quite as much. I do like calling them in with bows and and doing some of that or handguns. Um and and then just the wider field of view. Other rangefinders may have a six power magnification. Outside of that, I I can't see a reason why I would not use the RX5000. Um, and there's a there's a ton of features in there that can be used for various different things, but uh there's usually a key one or two that resonate with somebody that that are available there that I would use that one all the time. I may not use this other one, but the RX5000, the intent there is that you can it's more than just a rangefinder for this conversation. Knowing the exact distance matters. It is a small target. Yes. Um, and bullets are are dropping the entire time. So, you're going to generally on a stationary target, you go high or low. On a running target, you end up going behind of behind it or in front of it, right? Um but you still may have missed slightly high, but you saw the dust behind it. You're like, "Dang it, I was perfect." Except I was behind it. Um maybe, maybe not. When you actually watch it back on camera, you might have been high and behind it. Um but knowing the distance, which um that's that's usually me. That me too. That's why I mentioned it. That's usually what happens with me. Um, I like the RX5000. So, uh, as the name implies, you can range out to about 5,000 yards with it. Uh, there's long range modes where, um, it will basically just keep sending a signal and and averaging that, so you can range even farther. But handheld, just grabbing it, ranging something. Um, you can range out to 5,000. It will do a number of different things. So, it can tell you your straight line distance to that, which is in my opinion the the bigger feature for for coyote hunters because I don't want to be doing mills and MOA on my dial. I want to know I want to know because it all happens fast. So, in my mind, if I range the coyote and it says 350 yards, I have a gut check that says, "Yeah, that looks like it's about 350." Yes. If I if it's super flat terrain, prairie dog town, something like that, if I'm a little bit high, if I look at it and it comes back and says 712, I I don't I think I missed, you know, I might I might have flinched on the trigger there. Yeah. And pushed the button. So, that doesn't look that doesn't look right to me. If it just told me six mills, I my brain doesn't work quite that way, right? And so, yeah. And you know, you don't have a whole lot of time to compute on a coyote anyway. They rarely stand still for longer than, you know, just a handful of seconds, which everybody knows. Yeah. So, so I like that because it will it will turn a an angled shot into a flat shot. So, it'll it'll just tell me, hey, dial your scope to 3.5. It's 350 yards. Dial your scope to the 3.5. Hold dead on. Um there are other features that are interesting uh to me in that I can drop pins on my map with it. So um if I I you know I can use it for wayf finding rather than just distance finding. I can tell is this public or private that may be that may resonate in some states and not in others. it will drop a pin exactly where I just shot, which a decent number of my coyote kills happen in at last light and then things start looking different. Well, I that right there what you just mentioned is my favorite feature and what this is guys we're talking about like a lot of us run Onyx OnX Hunt app on our on our phones. Well, you can get you can get go to pin mode and you can you can use the rangefinder and range a spot and it'll literally drop a pin on your OnX map where it ranged. And where it's so cool for me, you know, I hunt all over the country, but predominantly hunt east of the Mississippi and Midwest prairie country and stuff, but when I do go out west like to Wyoming to visit my brother or go down the southwest and hunt and stuff, get in that sage brush country, I have always had a horrible time finding the coyotes after I shoot them. It's like I shoot them, I see where I shot them, but once I walk out there, I cannot find the dag on things. It just once I get out there, everything looks the same. I There's like no landmark, you know? Well, there's a sage bush, there's a sage bush, there's, you know what I mean? So, so the coolest thing when this first come out, when I first used it when I went out west, I was like, this is a lifesaver. Shoot the coyote, grab the rangefinder. You know, I'm talking about it's just, you know, if I don't even range it to begin with. Yeah. Coyote's landing our shot. I could take it out, drop a pin right there where I ranged and walk right to it. Yes. No more lost coyotes for John in sagebrush country. That is y'all can make fun of me all you want, but I have trouble with it. It's a It's a real thing. And And if you're you know, you're probably better shot than I am, but when I'm fortunate enough to pull off a double, then where where was the first one? Where's the second one? Yeah. or if I've got them lagging and it's last light because I always want to get that one last stand in um and I may stretch it if I know I'm not going to get to a next one. So if let's just say I shoot one six minutes into a stand. It's not uncommon in that wide open country to still bring another one in. I switch some sounds, switch some sounds up and pull in another one and now I've got one that's off to my left at 180 yards, whatever it is, and one that's off to my right and it may be because it was last light. As soon as I could get the shot, I took it as soon as it held up and it was 400 yards. And by the time I'm going to be done doing all this, packing putting the call back in my pack and doing those things. Yeah. It's kind of dark and I walk around with a headlamp looking for something that's made to blend in. Where are Where are these jokers? And they get way smaller and they hide behind, you know, something the size of a four-leaf clover. They're just gone. So, I love it. I I'm I'm living I'm living that in a broad daylight. It could be midday and I have that type of truck. Me, too. I lunch time. I'm trying to son up high. I was trying to trying to make it seem like there was a more legitimate reason for me to not find the coyote, but you're you're right. It it could be noon. It could be noon. And I have the same problem 100%. Yep. Yep. Well, they also have, like I said, there's there's pretty cool features in there. It's got some ballistic chart things. I don't know if we can talk about that much. I know it's fixing to drop here pretty quick, but you want to touch on that real quick? So, we pushed it out. So, you're fine. The the the app went the app update went out. So, one of the things on this and and if you're like me and you're listening to this and you heard app, you just cringed a little bit. But, um I don't I don't like downloading apps to pay for parking. I don't like downloading apps for everything else. This app is not designed to do any of that. This app is it's called a control app. And the whole idea is just to make it easier to set it's so you can use your phone to control the product. That's all it's intended for. So, I want these settings on, or I'm shooting this cartridge, or uh I want to switch it to bow mode. You can do all that on just the rangefinder, but you can do it on your phone where it's nice and easy to read with big instructions. Yeah. You don't have to hold it up to your face. Um, so that control app allows us to do some things, which is, you know, if you've had one of these RX 5000s for a couple years, it didn't have full-blown Hornady Ford off ballistics on it. Well, it does now. We just pushed those out. And that happens automatically through the app. you open it up, it's not going to bug you now. When you when it's time to use it later, it'll say, "Hey, there's an app an update. Do you want to push it?" "Yeah, I do." So, full-blown ballistics apps. So, you don't need a CDS dial. It'll just say you can scan your box of shells. Say, "I'm shooting these." And you can scan it with the barcode, and it says, "Oh, I know those ballistics." And now it can tell you exactly how many clicks to dial up at whatever distance. if you don't have a CDS style. Um, we updated with a a bow mode for for those that like to archery hunt. It didn't initially have a bow mode. But the big one is that we just pushed out those ballistics. So, a full-blown ballistics calculator. Um, and so if you've got that that rangefinder in your hand and you wanted to, hey, we've got that rock is a mile away. I want to try hitting it. It's open. It's safe. Range it. It'll tell you, okay, shooting the ammo you have in these conditions, you need to dial up this far, and if there's this much wind, you need to dial to the left that far. All of that is sitting there if you want it, but hidden in the background if you don't. So, the idea was to keep it keep it simple back to that. I don't want my gear to keep defining my hunt, right? And it's simple to get that information plugged in that app, too. I mean, it's it takes no time to to set that up. Pretty slick. Y'all did a good job on it. Very very simple. Um, and that was the goal. So, again, what we're trying to do is enable people to have success, not make them experts at monkeying with gear, right? That that that's not the goal, right? No, y'all did y'all did excellent job with it. It's a it's a pretty impressive rangefinder. And like I said, and you don't have to have the app to run a rangefinder, you know, everything, you know, is right there in a rangefinder that you need. But it's a it's a nice touch. I like all the all the features. It's pretty cool. Definitely definitely you guys definitely need to check it out. RX 5000. Yes. Let's um let's let's touch on binos real quick before we jump off here cuz especially out in Euros's part of the world and well maybe not right there in the western part of Oregon and and Washington but the rest of Oregon and a lot of just pretty much where a lot of people coyote hunt. Binocular is a pretty pretty good tool to to, you know, take on a coyote stand. And Lup Lup has several great models, very rugged, uh, crystal clear, compact models. I personally like the BX5. Yes. 10 x 42s. Those are my favorites. I do know that you guys have some rangefinding options. I've not used them. Big Al Morris with Fox Pro, he he loves them. uh tell us tell us tell us a little bit about those. Sure. So so we have models and uh unlike the the rifle scopes where the the 345 indicates the zoom ratio. Think of it this is the easiest way on the binoculars or spotting scopes. It's more of a um kind of an optical clarity number. So a BX5 is going to have higher resolution than a BX4 than a BX3 for example. And and why would you want that? It kind of depends on what your needs are. So, in a big game hunting situation, one easy way of saying it is, are you going to sit in glass all day looking for something that's hidden and bedded and you're trying to find a little throat patch or an ear tip or an antler tip? Well, then you're probably going to want something with all of the resolution you can get so that all the color correction is perfect and you you can tell an antler tip from a br piece of brush. If you're more of a I'm gonna walk up and I see something over there. I just want to know what it is and I'm gonna just glance through my binoculars and then keep moving. Then paying for all of that may not that may not make as much sense. You may want to come down a couple levels. For coyote hunting, um, and then we do that with rangefinders and without rangefinders. For coyote hunting, you'll find that it's I I walk a line between I don't want someone sitting there glassing and panning and moving the entire time while I'm trying to call if I'm exposed. And then as soon as I don't bring one, I sure as heck wish I had one, you know, because I'm say, "Well, we're bringing them we're bringing it to us. I it's going to be close. I don't need it." Right? But the advantage there is with with Broken Country, with other things, um, if they're not real vocal, they don't just run out in the middle and stand in a ray of sun and say, "Look at me. I'm over here." Right. Exactly. They move and stop and they move and they stop. And especially if you're in cat country and you're and you're kind of trying to double dip, those cats don't exactly Sometimes they run in, but other times, man, they are stationary. And so being able They definitely blend in. Yes. Sometimes you just look up and there it's like how did there was nothing but flat for 500 yards and there's a cat with its head in the speaker. Like how did where did you come from? Um so having that with you helps because you can if you catch a little flicker of movement somewhere and you you were looking left but your peripherals caught it in the right. It may be something standing there and you can qu you know carefully pick up and look and yep sure as heck something's I haven't got it fully fooled yet. It's it's looking at me. It's trying to figure out, do I circle? Do I come in? Do I leave and knowing that then you can adjust your sound or you can this was working? I'm not going to change anything, but you know where to watch. And the laser rangefinding version just then blends everything together, right? So I don't need to use this and say, "Yep, that's one." And now I'm going to pull out a handheld and range it in case it decides to not come farther. I want to be ready to take the the longer shot. Yes. Um, and so that's just in my mind kind of a personal preference. Um, in general, adding a rangefinder into a binocular, you need to be careful because you can do things to your optics. It's harder to to get very crisp optics and have a rangefinder display in there at the same time. We heer on the side of this is your primary optic first and a rangefinder second. I got you. And so we sense we go that extra mile to make sure that your optical performance comes first and your rangefinder comes second. It's very makes sense. I mean because that's what reason you have binoculars is to, you know, look at something extended distances and uh pick stuff out, you know. So that makes total sense. It needs to be a good set of binoculars first and a rangefinder second. Yeah. And that when you throw a display in there, you can get color shift because you're reflecting red light. So ju not going too deep. The display is red. That's that's what we like. And if you reflect red, the opposite side of the color wheel is blue. And so if you look at a lot of rangefinding items, if you hold them up out at distance and look through it, the channel that has the rangefinder display in it will look bluish. That is tough for a coyote hunter because our eye, we are very calibrated on our eyes for looking at for a very subtle difference in color. And if you now have a blue world view, you changed everything. So it would be like trying to hunt with blue sunglasses on. You're going to take those suckers off right away because you need your eyes working. So any long story short, we make sure that the that you get a real life visual perception first and that's harder to do and it requires more work. Um but then when you when you want to range, that's the secondary thing. We make sure it's the best rangefinder in its class, but we don't compete at the very low end on rangefinding binoculars because it's too big of a trade-off. It's just too big of a trade-off. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it makes total sense for me. for coyotes. The BX5, like you said, is perfect. It's nice. It's lightweight and it's um Yeah, the frame the frame is the frame is perfect. It's the the clarity is there. It's they're just a nice set of binoculars. They are. And then if you want to combine all of it, the BX6 range gives you the best optical performance out there. And then everything we just talked about on the RX 5000. So now it's all it's all rolled into one. You can pin, you have your your Ford off app, you have bow modes, all all the things that you can pick and choose from. Um, and it just depends on what your hunting style. What what do you want? You know, most people want the bare minimal, right? Less is more for coyote hunting, right? You don't want to have stuff hanging off you everywhere. Kind kind of like what we were talking about earlier, just whatever your hunting whatever matches your hunting style and whatever matches your meet your needs. So, it's pretty good information, Tim. I'm glad you came on. I do have one question for you before we jump off here. And I asked this for a lot of lot of new guests. I'm going it's going to have a little twist for you. You've probably not heard this before, but it this is a favorite caliber question. Okay. Okay. But there's a I'm going I'm going to do the caliber plus scope on this one. Okay. And as how this goes is just imagine I'm going to come pick you up in Oregon in a helicopter. Okay. Okay. You're going to jump on a helicopter. I'm going to take you out into the most remote region of the world, but it has coyotes. Okay. I'm going to give you your Fox Pro of choice with all the sound you could ever imagine. So, you won't have no trouble calling a coyote up. Okay. But your task is when I drop you off, you have to kill a coyote for I'm gonna come pick you up. And you're so far out of civilization. If you don't get a coyote killed, you just got to I'm not coming back to get you. Okay? You've got to drag a coyote to the helicopter before I'm going to let you get in and save your life. You'll have to spend your days out there eating ants and grubs, tree bark, just juniper berries, just whatever, pine cones, whatever. Okay? So, you've got to kill a coyote. The the thing is you only get one bullet. Okay? So, when you call that coyote in, you're literally putting your life in the hands of the caliber that you choose. So, to save your life, what caliber are you choosing to shoot that coyote? And plus, what scope are you choosing? So you get to choose your caliber and your scope. So you know you got one shot when you call this coyote up. You might call him up there to eight steps. You might not get him out there till four or 500 steps. So you got to be able to have a good scope that's going to handle close range, extended range, and your caliber is got to be able to finish the job. So what are you choosing? Which scope and which caliber to save your life? Okay. I would um
ju for just killing the coyote. Well, this is a tough one. I'm in between two scopes. So, I'm going to go with a 3 to 18. I was just so you know, I'm in between the 2 to 12 and the 3 to 18, but I think three is low enough. So, I'm going to go there. And I would choose a 256. 256. That is very interesting. Great caliber. You won't have no trouble mowing down a coyote test for sure. I just saw a thread the other day guys talking about uh caliber choices and they had three calibers up there and was trying to figure out which one to use and 256 was one of the options and there was a lot of good things said about it. That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I I generally like to hunt with a 223. That's what I use and I use light light bullets so I get entrances without exits. But if I don't know the distance, I don't know the other stuff, I'm assuming that I'm not in bear country to be honest or I would have changed my answer. You you never know. But you never know. I've killed a lot of a 256 will handle it. It will. I've I've killed a lot of um coyotes with 375 H&H and 338 because of where I live. But yeah, um and and where I've I've hunted and and and other things. Um but the 256 is flat. It's I can mess up a little bit if I get a weird angle. I can do other things and and I've quite a few with 256 and it it will do the job. Oh yeah. Yeah. You could you could be off left or right a little bit up or down and that coyote ain't getting away. You get you get a bullet in him, he's he's done for for sure. I think it's a good choice. Great choice. So I I think I'll let you you'll probably have a pretty good chance to get back in a helicopter and take you back to Oregon. Okay. Well, I I appreciate that. My daily carry is a 223. I like 22 250s, but in that situation, I'm sticking with it. Hey, isn't it isn't it funny when you put it to people like that? you know, their life depends on it. What caliber are you taking it? Because you'll see guys talk about, well, yeah, I like shooting this 204 Ruger, you know, or 17 Remington or whatever you want to say. And then it's like, well, what if your life depended on it? You had to kill that co. What do you, you know, like, well, I ain't using that 204. You know what I mean? I'm going to use this six creed or this 240. Oh, okay. Well, why don't you use it every day? Yeah. Yep. That's totally fair. So, anyway, I always like to ask it because it's always interesting to hear everybody's answers. So, it's pretty good. Pretty good. Well, Tim, we appreciate you coming on here and giving us some info on uh on Lupode and models there. Um do you have anything you'd like to leave us with before we jump off here? You know, I nothing in particular, John. Thank you for for having me. um the the people here eat, sleep, and breathe this every single day. And and that was one of the things that that candidly coming from Wyoming and having been immersed in this and used the tools, you know, to put food on the table, um I didn't I didn't know what to expect when I was going to go to a company that was based in Portland, Oregon, and and I wasn't sure. Um but I knew that they made good product and everything else. And when I when I got here and saw the lifestyle and just the eat, sleep, breathe, hunting, and shooting that all 750 people here do. The 80 engineers, everybody lives this lifestyle. The culture was phenomenal. And y and it's everybody with a common goal of making the consumer successful and getting better every day at doing that. um was just a massive eye openener for me. I I immediately found out who the dumbest person in the building was and I was wearing a he was wearing my name tag, you know, and Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's that's just that's something that I'm so incredibly proud of. This company just it enables us and empowers us to do the right thing for the consumer every step of the way. And there is I've never seen a more knowledgeable group of people aligned around one common thing and uh I just I'm proud to be here. I'm proud to be a part of it. Well, that's that's awesome to hear. Those are the type of companies we like to be associated with. Sounds like Loophold and Foxro have a lot in common. You know, that's one of the things we're based out of Lewistown, Pennsylvania, and the whole company is full of hunters, full of coyote hunters. It doesn't matter if it's, you know, somebody in production, somebody loading units, somebody in, you know, customer service, sales team, marketing. It don't matter what branch of the company you go to, there's coyote hunters. you know, like if you call in, have a issue with something, you're actually going to talk to a coyote hunter that's using the product, you know what I mean? So, that's awesome to hear that that that Luode is is the same way. And uh it makes me like the company even more. Yeah. Yep. It's it's a wonderful thing when we get to do this stuff all day every day, isn't it? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Well, Tim, we appreciate you coming on here. Thank you, John. I appreciate it. We hope everyone enjoyed this episode and we hope you join us again on the Fox Pro