FOXPRO's Jon Collins and Andrew Lewand discuss night hunting and how it has evolved over the years.
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welcome to the fox Pro podcast brought
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to you by Fox Pro game calls welcome
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back to the fox Pro podcast we have Mr
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Andrew lean joining us again the topic
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for this episode is rimfires and lights
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Andrew how you been doing buddy oh I'm
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awesome it's uh fall is in full swing
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here and deer season's kicking Fox is
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open coyotes open it's it's been a lot
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of fun up here in New York state yeah I
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I've seen where the New York's Predator
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season opened up and you know looks like
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you've been SP spending plenty of time
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in the field you've been pouring it to
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them yeah that was a fine start it's fun
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once the fox get rolling you know we get
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the Reds and the Grays and it's been
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great and I just hope the weather
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cooperates we need Mother Nature on our
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side and we'll just keep it rolling all
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winter long there you go there you go
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when when will you start deer hunting
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well our bow season is underway right
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now in fact I I took a respectable eight
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pointer just last week and the gun
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season opens I want to say November 18th
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which is a Saturday this year so yeah so
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are are you guys a one Buck state two
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buck State what is New York it's two you
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can get one with the bow and or a
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crossbow and then one in the rifle
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season and then the do yeah the do
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permits are handed out depending on your
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area pretty liberally like I can get
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myself I think at least four do tags
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yeah and you can transform to other
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Hunters you know what people complain
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about New York State uh politics or
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whatever but the hunting seasons are are
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lengthy I really can't complain about
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that aspect of it good yeah I mean uh I
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didn't realize you guys were a two buck
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state so you get one with archery and
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one one with rifle how was how was your
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archery hunt you said respect Bo what
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you say tell us about it a little bit
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well if you really want to know I went
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out there last Friday it was like 75
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degrees which is warm for up here warm
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that's warm everywhere for deer season
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Yeah well yeah for sure I mean it was
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almost November and I was actually went
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out there they just cut the beans and I
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moved my I was went out to move my
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hunting blind for gun season uh to its
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desired location which I did so I said
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while I'm here I might as well grab the
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B and go up in this tree stand well John
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it was warm I was just sweltering in
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this tree stand in fact I picked one
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that was in the shade and it still
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didn't help and uh I'm sitting there I
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hate to admit this on my phone looking
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at YouTube and this and that and texting
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friends it was six o'clock came said I
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better pay attention now let me
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backtrack the entire time these
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Chipmunks going crazy in the dry leaves
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underneath me so I'm hearing Chipmunks
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all time I said well I better pay
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attention there's another chipmunk
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looked to my left and this Buck was
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coming about five yards right underneath
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me and I saw that and said you know what
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that's a nice respectable a Dandy you
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know not H was a Dandy right you know
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100 inch plus you know but not not 120
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but whatever and I shot it and didn't go
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10 yards and fell over so and I was able
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to drive more importantly drive my truck
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right through it with the fresh beans in
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the dry field you know cut that you know
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after the hunt after the shot B hunting
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to me is important I don't want to be
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tracking a deer forever and calling in a
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tracking dog I like that yeah well sound
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like you smoked him just went 10 steps
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good grief yeah yeah I got I got lucky
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let's face it but but I'll take that
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I'll take that luck so uh and then that
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night I went out and did some Predator
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hun so yeah so it's good good I know
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exactly what you're talking about after
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the shots important cuz we've been
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archery hunting here pretty late you
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know when we're recording podcast guys
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this is actually Halloween you know this
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won't be out for for a few weeks but
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this is prime time to be in the
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deerwoods and I actually I actually shot
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a buck last night here in Kentucky U
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yesterday afternoon and I'm hunting a
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ridg top it's a soybean field ridg toop
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but it drops off in the hollers on the
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left and the right and I was actually
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texting some guys in the tree stand last
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night Andrew I said I sent him a picture
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WhatsApp front of him I said if I shoot
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one and it goes over the hill to the
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left somebody's going to come help me I
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said if goes anywhere else I'm fine but
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I ain't I can't tackle that if it goes
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over to the left I can't do that by
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myself I need help we have to call in
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the you know call in the troops for that
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so I know exactly what you're talking
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about you know some real work starts
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after the shot you got to have some luck
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for them to drop quick or go in the
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right direction for to get them out
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there easy especially when you get to
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starting to get a few years of age on
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you I definitely ain't as young as it
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used to be well for sure now listen I
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saw your buck on Facebook and that thing
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was a monster so yeah under any
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condition
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you would need some help to load up that
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that thing that was a real trophy
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congratulations that appr appreciate
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that and he was a brute especially
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bodywise and good grief it took I was
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actually able to get the fourwheeler at
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to him me he died in the in the bean
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field just 20 yards away from the edge
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and was able to get to the fourwheeler
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right there to the edge but it took
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everything I had to get that Joker on
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that fourwheeler good grief I'm sore
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this morning from
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it then then of course getting him out
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had to go downhill slid off the
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four-wheeler once broke my ratchet strap
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so you know so I actually got to load
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him
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twice it's it was wor whatever you went
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through it was worth it because that was
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a trophy in anybody's eyes that was a
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great great buck yeah it definitely
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worth it had a lot of fun I like chasing
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him white tails so you know I you know I
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like KY calling off a lot too you know I
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can't say that I like deer hunting more
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but I definitely like chasing white tail
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deer that's for sure when you see them
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it's definitely exciting that's for sure
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see that rat coming in across the field
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the
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it's a great moment yep yep they taste
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better than the
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coyotes you know what I've never tried
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the kyot and I know it's a thing on
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Facebook for guys to eat them and I wish
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I would have Saed that I had an article
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that said why you shouldn't and it
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wasn't trigos it was something else and
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for the life of me I can't find the
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article but I will not be dining on
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coyote or Fox anytime soon yeah I guess
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I should put that after I said I said
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dear taste better than coyotes I'm just
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assuming cuz I've never had coyote
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either but I know I'm not going to and I
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guarantee you that they don't taste
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better than a deer no yeah I think
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that's B let's go with that yeah for
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sure let's go Ahad get right there with
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our podcast and for everybody listening
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you guys know Andrew from from Predator
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extreme magazine he's also a fox Pro uh
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field staffer he's excellent excellent
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Predator Hunter and that's that's the
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reason we've got him on here but Andrew
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first things first I want to talk with
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you briefly about rimfires for predator
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hunting this topic has com up a few
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times on Facebook and a few other places
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have even talked about this you know
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with people in hunting camps and stuff
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and I feel like it's worth touching on
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now I know you have plenty of experience
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with hunting with a rim fire because at
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one time it was law for a particular
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stretch of time during New York's
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Predator season is that correct where
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you had to use a
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Rimfire yes they switched the rules some
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years ago so back in the day that's
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that's all we could use during an open
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deer season was a a a uh Rim fry of some
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sort so we were limited and I will tell
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you I do have some experience with this
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uh at first it was of course the 22 long
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rifle in other words my squirrel gun
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right and back in the day we had a lot
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more red fox and coyotes so my
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experience in hunting with that actual
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TR to long rifle was against Fox and
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I'll tell you what in the night and
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we'll get into lights later at night you
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really had to place that shot but those
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Fox were rolling around and trying to
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escape and it wasn't the most Humane
0:07:36.759,0:07:42.400
kill at sometime margin marginal made no
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way other way to put it right right
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right I you know we were successful we
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did have some Runners but but mostly you
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would anchor them but You' have to shoot
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them like two or three times run up on
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and that's not pleasant right and and
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I'm I'm assuming if it's Mar marginal
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for a fox it's it's definitely marginal
0:07:59.759,0:08:05.280
for for a cow that was no doubt yeah you
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you got to go for a head shot in that
0:08:05.280,0:08:09.759
case and you know try to you know place
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that thing close to the eye or whatever
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it was always a tough day it was a great
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day for us when they switched the rules
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let's put it that way right so so how do
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you personally feel about Rimfire laws
0:08:18.639,0:08:22.960
like that because I think there's some
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other states uh that may have that in
0:08:22.960,0:08:30.599
place now I think maybe Tennessee either
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had or still has uh a law that's very
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similar to what you guys used to have in
0:08:32.519,0:08:36.880
New York how how do you how do you
0:08:34.159,0:08:38.919
personally feel about that law where you
0:08:36.880,0:08:40.320
have to use Rim fires or they restri say
0:08:38.919,0:08:43.120
you got to use a rim fire if you GNA
0:08:40.320,0:08:45.920
hunt at night or I'm assuming during the
0:08:43.120,0:08:49.600
day too right probably if that was the
0:08:45.920,0:08:51.399
case during open uh deer season sure y I
0:08:49.600,0:08:53.720
don't like that at all for many reasons
0:08:51.399,0:08:55.000
you're gonna wound a lot of animals
0:08:53.720,0:08:57.360
right number one you got have a lot of
0:08:55.000,0:08:59.399
Runners and again for ethics and
0:08:57.360,0:09:02.040
Humanity that's not the way to go it's
0:08:59.399,0:09:03.320
limiting you you could call in a a red
0:09:02.040,0:09:05.800
fox or a coyote and he might be out
0:09:03.320,0:09:07.920
there at 100 125 yards that's a tricky
0:09:05.800,0:09:10.320
shot with a 22 at night or even in the
0:09:07.920,0:09:12.600
daytime let's face it so you're I don't
0:09:10.320,0:09:15.800
know it's just like I say we celebrated
0:09:12.600,0:09:19.800
it because our rules now say that it has
0:09:15.800,0:09:23.240
to be under a 22 caliber for a center
0:09:19.800,0:09:26.320
fire so the 204 well we used to use the
0:09:23.240,0:09:28.920
22 mag let me let me backtrack the 22
0:09:26.320,0:09:30.279
long rifle was a starter and then said
0:09:28.920,0:09:31.680
wait second because then we got more
0:09:30.279,0:09:33.480
into it you know how it is you get into
0:09:31.680,0:09:35.160
a sport and you you progress with
0:09:33.480,0:09:38.040
everything equipment wait a minute this
0:09:35.160,0:09:40.160
22 mag that's the answer so then that
0:09:38.040,0:09:42.440
that was a good good Rimfire obviously
0:09:40.160,0:09:44.200
that was a great step up you could knock
0:09:42.440,0:09:47.440
down those coyotes you'd still get
0:09:44.200,0:09:50.560
Runners was it perfect no but it cor
0:09:47.440,0:09:53.160
conformed to the laws so the 22 Meg with
0:09:50.560,0:09:55.480
I used to use a hollow point 40 gra
0:09:53.160,0:09:58.040
bullet yep it knocked the Fox right down
0:09:55.480,0:10:00.200
yep so that was okay but the coyotes not
0:09:58.040,0:10:02.760
so much they would still run so we
0:10:00.200,0:10:05.320
celebrated when they switched the rules
0:10:02.760,0:10:07.880
and all of a sudden you could use a 204
0:10:05.320,0:10:09.320
yep Ruger because that was under the 22
0:10:07.880,0:10:12.120
and I think those are developed I want
0:10:09.320,0:10:15.120
to say 2004 so that's when the the game
0:10:12.120,0:10:17.519
changed in that respect right yeah then
0:10:15.120,0:10:19.800
you got you know other other caliber
0:10:17.519,0:10:22.160
like 17 Remington 17 Fireball you know
0:10:19.800,0:10:25.240
there's a lot of options right in that
0:10:22.160,0:10:28.079
little window right there and you
0:10:25.240,0:10:31.120
know it's a it's a t it's a touchy
0:10:28.079,0:10:33.560
subject especially on um the forums and
0:10:31.120,0:10:35.760
on Facebook pages and stuff like that
0:10:33.560,0:10:38.959
cuz we have a lot of newcomers that come
0:10:35.760,0:10:42.160
to the Sport Daily and a lot of times
0:10:38.959,0:10:45.519
they don't have equipment like a rif a
0:10:42.160,0:10:48.519
center fire rifle or or whatever to go
0:10:45.519,0:10:52.760
out and start predator hunting but they
0:10:48.519,0:10:54.959
might have a 22 22 mag 17 HMR and I know
0:10:52.760,0:10:56.480
there's some other Rim fires out there
0:10:54.959,0:10:58.680
today that's a little bit hotter that's
0:10:56.480,0:11:02.200
got a little more you know oomph behind
0:10:58.680,0:11:05.560
them but but uh you know there's
0:11:02.200,0:11:07.680
definitely nothing wrong I guess with
0:11:05.560,0:11:09.120
choosing a Rimfire if that's what you've
0:11:07.680,0:11:11.040
got especially if you don't have the
0:11:09.120,0:11:14.480
money to get something else you know in
0:11:11.040,0:11:16.000
my eyes uh right but they they are
0:11:14.480,0:11:19.320
marginal guys I
0:11:16.000,0:11:21.160
mean it's just is what it is if if Rim
0:11:19.320,0:11:24.240
fires were the answer you know you see
0:11:21.160,0:11:25.399
the 17 HMR come up all the time and you
0:11:24.240,0:11:26.839
know somebody say well you know we
0:11:25.399,0:11:29.200
advise you not to use that you probably
0:11:26.839,0:11:31.399
need to least bump up to you know this
0:11:29.200,0:11:35.000
or that you know naming something
0:11:31.399,0:11:36.800
Centerfire and uh you know it it hurts
0:11:35.000,0:11:38.399
feelings you'll see people jump on her
0:11:36.800,0:11:41.959
say well it's all about shot placement
0:11:38.399,0:11:45.279
I've killed a ton of coyotes with the 17
0:11:41.959,0:11:47.120
HMR and never had the first one run and
0:11:45.279,0:11:49.120
of course I when I read stuff like that
0:11:47.120,0:11:51.120
I'm like really I mean how many have you
0:11:49.120,0:11:52.639
shot I mean have you shot three they
0:11:51.120,0:11:56.279
didn't run have you
0:11:52.639,0:11:59.440
shot a dozen have you shot a 100 I doubt
0:11:56.279,0:12:01.240
you've shot a 100 coyotes with a 178
0:11:59.440,0:12:04.040
none of them ran you know what I mean
0:12:01.240,0:12:06.320
it's it's it's just one of those one of
0:12:04.040,0:12:07.639
those things if the 17 any Rimfire if
0:12:06.320,0:12:10.440
they were the
0:12:07.639,0:12:12.279
answer in my eyes we would all be that's
0:12:10.440,0:12:17.680
what we'd be shooting why would I shoot
0:12:12.279,0:12:19.959
a 243 or a 22250 with ammo high when I
0:12:17.680,0:12:23.440
could buy cheap ammo for a 22 long rifle
0:12:19.959,0:12:25.760
or 17 HMR and burn every coyote up down
0:12:23.440,0:12:29.399
that that I call up you know what I mean
0:12:25.760,0:12:30.959
so yeah oh absolutely I mean obviously
0:12:29.399,0:12:33.000
that's a valid point the only thing I
0:12:30.959,0:12:34.839
can say about a 22 long rifle in that
0:12:33.000,0:12:37.120
case they might have their time in place
0:12:34.839,0:12:39.639
if you're in a more Suburban situation
0:12:37.120,0:12:42.760
where the noise but that but it's
0:12:39.639,0:12:44.240
limited for sure yeah that but on the
0:12:42.760,0:12:46.600
other hand if somebody's just getting in
0:12:44.240,0:12:48.360
the sport and that's all they have and
0:12:46.600,0:12:51.199
they want to try it and maybe catch the
0:12:48.360,0:12:53.040
bug fine but then I'm sure that person
0:12:51.199,0:12:55.279
would progress just like we all progress
0:12:53.040,0:12:58.120
with everything all the equipment right
0:12:55.279,0:12:59.320
no I I'm right there with you if you if
0:12:58.120,0:13:00.880
it's just one of those those things
0:12:59.320,0:13:03.959
either you're you're
0:13:00.880,0:13:06.320
handcuffed to have to use Rim fires
0:13:03.959,0:13:08.399
because the state laws are in place game
0:13:06.320,0:13:10.240
laws that that makes you have to do that
0:13:08.399,0:13:11.839
if you want to go out totally understand
0:13:10.240,0:13:14.399
it if you don't have the money to
0:13:11.839,0:13:16.279
graduate up to some other kind of Center
0:13:14.399,0:13:18.680
fire cartridge and all you got to
0:13:16.279,0:13:20.880
Rimfire totally understand and yes they
0:13:18.680,0:13:22.480
can be effective U I'm sure you've
0:13:20.880,0:13:25.680
killed many of coyotes and foxes with
0:13:22.480,0:13:28.320
rim fire is that correct Andrew Well I
0:13:25.680,0:13:29.279
well with a 22 MAG for sure right yeah
0:13:28.320,0:13:31.680
right
0:13:29.279,0:13:34.360
that was pretty good but uh the other I
0:13:31.680,0:13:36.480
just I have a few specific Fox you know
0:13:34.360,0:13:39.399
hunts in my memory of that were neat
0:13:36.480,0:13:42.320
with the 22 long rifle but far more with
0:13:39.399,0:13:42.920
the 22 mag but when they switched with
0:13:42.320,0:13:46.399
the
0:13:42.920,0:13:48.160
204 that that was a new a new animal and
0:13:46.399,0:13:50.079
the way to go in that respect like when
0:13:48.160,0:13:52.880
you were running the 22 Max so I'm
0:13:50.079,0:13:55.600
assuming you know your your
0:13:52.880,0:13:57.560
caliber of choice your cartridge of
0:13:55.600,0:13:58.839
choice when you did have that
0:13:57.560,0:14:01.480
restriction where you had to run
0:13:58.839,0:14:03.720
rimfires during the Predator season one
0:14:01.480,0:14:06.000
of the de Seasons we're in or whatever
0:14:03.720,0:14:09.600
that was your cartridge of choice was
0:14:06.000,0:14:11.279
the 22 mag oh for sure yeah yes the
0:14:09.600,0:14:12.680
heavier bullet weight to stop you know
0:14:11.279,0:14:14.279
don't forget our Eastern kyotes are
0:14:12.680,0:14:16.360
pretty big up here now they're not all
0:14:14.279,0:14:18.959
50 pounds like everybody's leing on
0:14:16.360,0:14:21.360
social media I've been doing the the fox
0:14:18.959,0:14:22.920
Pro hunt now for over 20 years and I
0:14:21.360,0:14:25.720
think we had one or two you know
0:14:22.920,0:14:27.800
hundreds of kyos come in um I think
0:14:25.720,0:14:29.839
there's only been a less than a handful
0:14:27.800,0:14:32.720
of 50 pounders the average big one's
0:14:29.839,0:14:35.639
usually about 48 pounds right right well
0:14:32.720,0:14:37.480
you know speaking on that topic you know
0:14:35.639,0:14:39.800
it would go to the the big Eastern
0:14:37.480,0:14:42.920
tournament uh that they would hold which
0:14:39.800,0:14:44.399
you know there was man tons of coyotes
0:14:42.920,0:14:47.320
was checked in there and usually big
0:14:44.399,0:14:49.480
coyote was in the mid to upper 40s I
0:14:47.320,0:14:51.800
think I ever saw a 50 pounder come in
0:14:49.480,0:14:53.279
yeah yeah so but that's another one of
0:14:51.800,0:14:55.240
the internet myths out there they do
0:14:53.279,0:14:58.279
exist they do we've done it you know I
0:14:55.240,0:15:01.920
my biggest was 53 pounds that's a that's
0:14:58.279,0:15:04.560
a mod monster cow yeah yeah you'll hear
0:15:01.920,0:15:06.360
some say was a Seaside of 68 pound I'm
0:15:04.560,0:15:09.279
like oh really but whatever you know
0:15:06.360,0:15:12.279
it's that must those are those
0:15:09.279,0:15:16.120
mythical you know legendary Eastern koi
0:15:12.279,0:15:18.880
wolves what that is yeah
0:15:16.120,0:15:21.040
so what it is let me ask you this did
0:15:18.880,0:15:26.680
when you were running your 22 mag and
0:15:21.040,0:15:30.040
calling in fox or CS as well did you
0:15:26.680,0:15:32.440
see was there like a hold that these
0:15:30.040,0:15:35.600
coyotes and fox would cross that you
0:15:32.440,0:15:37.440
knew that you could that your 22 mag
0:15:35.600,0:15:40.480
would anchor them or was you getting
0:15:37.440,0:15:42.800
Runners from just a few steps away out
0:15:40.480,0:15:44.440
to Extended ranges or was there like hey
0:15:42.800,0:15:46.399
if it comes in 40 yards we're dropping
0:15:44.440,0:15:48.759
them was there ever that you see what
0:15:46.399,0:15:51.480
I'm asking you is yeah no yeah yeah yeah
0:15:48.759,0:15:53.959
um I hate to say this that was based on
0:15:51.480,0:15:56.399
shot placement if you hit a coyote now
0:15:53.959,0:15:59.720
the average nighttime shot for me even
0:15:56.399,0:16:01.639
now is always 75 to 90 yard yeah okay
0:15:59.720,0:16:03.880
and with the 22 mag I had no problem
0:16:01.639,0:16:06.839
doing that if you hit that now it also
0:16:03.880,0:16:08.480
correlates to this come in later when we
0:16:06.839,0:16:10.360
talk about this the lights because the
0:16:08.480,0:16:12.279
whole light illumination issue is a
0:16:10.360,0:16:13.880
whole another story we get to that but
0:16:12.279,0:16:16.440
assuming you can see that fox your
0:16:13.880,0:16:19.360
coyote if you hit them with the 22 mag
0:16:16.440,0:16:21.839
in the vital heart rate area they'll
0:16:19.360,0:16:23.839
usually they they'll Spin and run or do
0:16:21.839,0:16:26.079
whatever run on a circle and drop right
0:16:23.839,0:16:28.240
but if you hit them anywhere else those
0:16:26.079,0:16:30.399
K the coyotes were gone let's not make
0:16:28.240,0:16:32.839
words you had a runner if you didn't hit
0:16:30.399,0:16:34.920
him right which meant in the head or in
0:16:32.839,0:16:36.839
the in the heart and even with I've seen
0:16:34.920,0:16:40.000
Fox if you hit him in the heart they'll
0:16:36.839,0:16:42.880
run 75 yards right so if they run into a
0:16:40.000,0:16:46.480
thick brush goodbye you know really say
0:16:42.880,0:16:48.759
it right so yeah but yeah but I it
0:16:46.480,0:16:50.199
really with with that it was the shot
0:16:48.759,0:16:52.839
placement that was the important part
0:16:50.199,0:16:55.000
and I wasn't shooting much over 100
0:16:52.839,0:16:57.000
yards anyhow right well they just don't
0:16:55.000,0:16:59.759
carry the uh they don't have the
0:16:57.000,0:17:02.199
Velocity and the energy to dump into an
0:16:59.759,0:17:04.199
animal to Anchor them I mean I know they
0:17:02.199,0:17:09.799
get dropped I've only killed a handful
0:17:04.199,0:17:13.400
of KS with a 22 is 22 long rifle um I
0:17:09.799,0:17:15.120
know for a fact I CU it it's burned into
0:17:13.400,0:17:18.839
my memory you know when when an animal
0:17:15.120,0:17:20.919
gets away from you uh had caught in a
0:17:18.839,0:17:23.480
coyote's lip sque actually saw it out in
0:17:20.919,0:17:25.640
a pasture field and had a 22 and and lip
0:17:23.480,0:17:27.760
squeaked it up to like I don't know it
0:17:25.640,0:17:29.120
was probably like 90 or 100 yards but
0:17:27.760,0:17:32.160
completely brought
0:17:29.120,0:17:35.120
outside felt like a great shot you know
0:17:32.160,0:17:36.840
heard that Hollow thud when it hit and I
0:17:35.120,0:17:39.840
think that cow still running and still
0:17:36.840,0:17:41.679
alive today and that was you know I mean
0:17:39.840,0:17:45.240
just never did find it you know but I
0:17:41.679,0:17:47.880
did did shoot Couts and did collect them
0:17:45.240,0:17:49.360
um every single one of them ran that I
0:17:47.880,0:17:52.080
killed I never shot one that just
0:17:49.360,0:17:54.840
anchored it U they were all you know
0:17:52.080,0:17:56.880
lung heart type shots where I actually
0:17:54.840,0:17:59.120
hit the coyote that got away from me I
0:17:56.880,0:18:00.480
don't know I think it felt good you know
0:17:59.120,0:18:03.080
I think it was right there behind the
0:18:00.480,0:18:04.039
shoulder right where it needs to be but
0:18:03.080,0:18:05.880
you know I could have hit in the
0:18:04.039,0:18:07.679
shoulder and I guarantee you at 100
0:18:05.880,0:18:09.120
yards you hit one on up in the shoulder
0:18:07.679,0:18:12.320
you're probably gonna get to penetration
0:18:09.120,0:18:14.760
with the 22 it's just how it is so no
0:18:12.320,0:18:16.919
exactly I had a memorable hunt myself
0:18:14.760,0:18:19.120
with a 22 mag correlating the deer
0:18:16.919,0:18:20.600
season you might enjoy this I was
0:18:19.120,0:18:23.000
walking to my deer stand through a
0:18:20.600,0:18:25.080
gravel pit area in the afternoon and I
0:18:23.000,0:18:26.159
saw two coyotes coming down a bank which
0:18:25.080,0:18:28.120
is rare for me to see them in the
0:18:26.159,0:18:29.799
daylight like that and it was back in
0:18:28.120,0:18:32.280
the days and I would deer hunt have all
0:18:29.799,0:18:35.600
my coyote stuff in my car after my deer
0:18:32.280,0:18:37.440
hunt I'd Swap and call right there so I
0:18:35.600,0:18:42.080
race back to my truck it was a I had a
0:18:37.440,0:18:45.320
22 mag uh and uh went up to the edge of
0:18:42.080,0:18:47.320
that the Gravel Pit called and here came
0:18:45.320,0:18:50.600
the coyote but he was out there he was
0:18:47.320,0:18:53.559
like go parallel so I can do this I said
0:18:50.600,0:18:55.640
I took the shot and I a rarity with 22
0:18:53.559,0:18:58.640
Meg anchored that coyote it turned out
0:18:55.640,0:19:02.960
to be a 45b mail in the kicker was it
0:18:58.640,0:19:04.600
was 212 yards really so lucky you got to
0:19:02.960,0:19:07.080
get lucky one that made up for the ones
0:19:04.600,0:19:09.039
that you know maybe ran but it but I
0:19:07.080,0:19:12.840
don't go online and say oh I get them
0:19:09.039,0:19:14.200
all the time it was once but it's still
0:19:12.840,0:19:16.799
just it was so
0:19:14.200,0:19:18.880
neat burns my memory well that I mean
0:19:16.799,0:19:21.200
just stories like that I mean it it that
0:19:18.880,0:19:23.000
does prove that they can be effective it
0:19:21.200,0:19:24.760
proves that they can get the job done
0:19:23.000,0:19:26.799
I'll never tell you that they won't kill
0:19:24.760,0:19:28.760
them but there's just better options out
0:19:26.799,0:19:30.760
there it's just like you take anybody
0:19:28.760,0:19:32.679
that does it for a living that kills
0:19:30.760,0:19:35.919
coyotes foxes Bobcats whatever for a
0:19:32.679,0:19:38.320
living that's calling them up whatever
0:19:35.919,0:19:40.360
you know trapping them and walking up
0:19:38.320,0:19:42.520
there to them that's something different
0:19:40.360,0:19:44.280
yeah but if you're actually calling
0:19:42.520,0:19:45.679
Kouts or say if you're a tournament
0:19:44.280,0:19:47.400
Hunter you know there's tons of big-
0:19:45.679,0:19:50.440
time tournament Hunters all across the
0:19:47.400,0:19:52.919
country that you know the the big names
0:19:50.440,0:19:55.039
that do it they're well known CU they
0:19:52.919,0:19:58.240
have so much success year in and year
0:19:55.039,0:20:01.159
out U listen none of those guys are
0:19:58.240,0:20:03.080
running a Rimfire none of them I mean I
0:20:01.159,0:20:05.400
know I know almost all of them and I
0:20:03.080,0:20:07.520
know exactly what calibers are running
0:20:05.400,0:20:09.760
it's not even close to a ramp fire you
0:20:07.520,0:20:11.919
know what I mean so no they need to be
0:20:09.760,0:20:13.720
effective and efficient that's not the
0:20:11.919,0:20:16.039
way to do it ex like I said earlier if
0:20:13.720,0:20:19.039
if a Rimfire was the answer we'd all be
0:20:16.039,0:20:22.760
shooting a Rimfire and in my personal
0:20:19.039,0:20:24.080
opinion on the laws uh state laws that
0:20:22.760,0:20:27.919
have that and I you know I'm not
0:20:24.080,0:20:31.880
badmouthing these Wildlife uh agencies
0:20:27.919,0:20:34.440
or nothing but at the same time I mean
0:20:31.880,0:20:35.960
you got to have faith in your Sportsman
0:20:34.440,0:20:37.559
uh you got to expect them to do the
0:20:35.960,0:20:39.320
right thing just because you allow them
0:20:37.559,0:20:41.799
to take a center fire rifle out there
0:20:39.320,0:20:43.880
during a deer season and they're a
0:20:41.799,0:20:45.840
predator Hunter if they see a deer that
0:20:43.880,0:20:47.679
does automatically mean they're going to
0:20:45.840,0:20:49.520
shoot the thing you know they're they're
0:20:47.679,0:20:51.200
out there to Predator hunt trust them
0:20:49.520,0:20:53.000
with predator hunting you know I know
0:20:51.200,0:20:55.480
there's some Rogues out there but you
0:20:53.000,0:20:57.760
know I guarantee if uh if somebody was
0:20:55.480,0:21:00.240
going to be be a poacher say there going
0:20:57.760,0:21:02.200
to poach a deer it's deer season and
0:21:00.240,0:21:04.480
they were out there and and say you did
0:21:02.200,0:21:05.640
allow Center fire rifles and a deer come
0:21:04.480,0:21:06.880
up there to them where they could kill
0:21:05.640,0:21:08.039
it and they're poacher and is going to
0:21:06.880,0:21:09.799
kill it anyway yeah they're going to
0:21:08.039,0:21:11.039
shoot it well guess what they probably
0:21:09.799,0:21:13.200
going to do the same thing if they had a
0:21:11.039,0:21:14.480
22 Magnum in their hands right they're
0:21:13.200,0:21:18.000
still going to try to kill the deer if
0:21:14.480,0:21:20.240
they're a poer right yeah that's sad but
0:21:18.000,0:21:21.400
true yes but what what I'm get what I'm
0:21:20.240,0:21:24.559
getting at
0:21:21.400,0:21:26.880
is it's just so I think I've said this
0:21:24.559,0:21:28.799
in a post the other day on Facebook and
0:21:26.880,0:21:30.159
there's a lot of people like the comment
0:21:28.799,0:21:32.000
but there was some people you could tell
0:21:30.159,0:21:34.360
didn't like it and and made some
0:21:32.000,0:21:36.720
comments but I'm not don't want to argue
0:21:34.360,0:21:40.520
with them because like I said I know
0:21:36.720,0:21:43.120
that they can be effective but no matter
0:21:40.520,0:21:45.559
how bad you hate a ky or how much you
0:21:43.120,0:21:47.960
love a ky they deserve a little bit more
0:21:45.559,0:21:49.640
than a Rimfire you know dispatch them
0:21:47.960,0:21:51.080
coyotes I mean I just that's just how I
0:21:49.640,0:21:52.279
feel about it I mean give them if you're
0:21:51.080,0:21:54.880
going to hunt them you're going to shoot
0:21:52.279,0:21:56.679
them they need they Des they deserve a
0:21:54.880,0:21:59.200
little bit more than a Rimfire and I
0:21:56.679,0:22:01.120
think that's I just don't like it when I
0:21:59.200,0:22:03.440
see those laws because that's the first
0:22:01.120,0:22:05.600
thing I think about man I feel sorry for
0:22:03.440,0:22:07.360
the dag on Coy it's got to run off with
0:22:05.600,0:22:09.200
that stuck in his shoulder or whatever
0:22:07.360,0:22:11.039
you know what I mean just you know for
0:22:09.200,0:22:14.279
sure let these guys shoot something
0:22:11.039,0:22:17.159
that's adequate well to reinforce your
0:22:14.279,0:22:18.760
thought I haven't taken my 22 mag out
0:22:17.159,0:22:21.080
except for one night for raccoons there
0:22:18.760,0:22:24.880
a couple years ago I haven't taken my 22
0:22:21.080,0:22:26.799
mag out Predator D in 20 years right for
0:22:24.880,0:22:30.679
that very reason why would
0:22:26.799,0:22:32.000
I yeah yeah why be under gun def these
0:22:30.679,0:22:34.640
guys let's say if you don't have a
0:22:32.000,0:22:36.200
center fire but you have a shotgun I'd
0:22:34.640,0:22:38.200
much rather you see see you take a
0:22:36.200,0:22:40.159
shotgun out there to shoot coyotes and
0:22:38.200,0:22:42.080
stuff to a Rimfire you know what I mean
0:22:40.159,0:22:43.600
get you some number four Buck they come
0:22:42.080,0:22:45.640
in 50 yards and in you're probably going
0:22:43.600,0:22:48.279
to melt them to the ground right oh yeah
0:22:45.640,0:22:51.240
more lethal yep for sure all right we
0:22:48.279,0:22:53.679
we've beat that dead horse enough I I
0:22:51.240,0:22:56.840
spoke on this with Gage bannan on the
0:22:53.679,0:22:58.440
last podcast and I we kind of cover the
0:22:56.840,0:23:02.000
same type of stuff actually just how I
0:22:58.440,0:23:04.440
feel about it um Rim fires I know they
0:23:02.000,0:23:08.120
can be effective but they're just so
0:23:04.440,0:23:11.000
marginal and kyot deserves more than
0:23:08.120,0:23:13.120
that and quite frankly you deserve more
0:23:11.000,0:23:15.080
than that nobody wants to see their
0:23:13.120,0:23:16.200
Critters run off they pull a bullet in
0:23:15.080,0:23:19.159
them you won't see them melt to the
0:23:16.200,0:23:21.159
ground uh just do yourself a favor and
0:23:19.159,0:23:23.520
when you can take you a center fire but
0:23:21.159,0:23:25.240
let's move on to lights let's talk about
0:23:23.520,0:23:26.360
lights for predator hunting Andrew
0:23:25.240,0:23:28.440
because I know you've got a ton of
0:23:26.360,0:23:30.559
experience with this as well when did
0:23:28.440,0:23:32.480
you start hunting with lights and what
0:23:30.559,0:23:34.799
type of lights did you what type of
0:23:32.480,0:23:36.919
lights did you use that's a great
0:23:34.799,0:23:37.840
question ready yeah a million years a
0:23:36.919,0:23:42.159
million
0:23:37.840,0:23:44.600
years I know you old but I ready I've
0:23:42.159,0:23:46.559
been hearing this lately just just for a
0:23:44.600,0:23:49.520
little background here people will say
0:23:46.559,0:23:51.320
to me whether online or oh yeah you
0:23:49.520,0:23:53.279
paved the way for us and this and that
0:23:51.320,0:23:57.120
thanks what you do and all this right y
0:23:53.279,0:24:00.000
to me that's that means I'm old but but
0:23:57.120,0:24:02.720
I I feel like 11 John and sometimes I
0:24:00.000,0:24:05.360
move like I'm 90 but but I I'm young at
0:24:02.720,0:24:07.279
heart and uh so to answer your question
0:24:05.360,0:24:10.520
it would have been in the early uh mid
0:24:07.279,0:24:12.240
80s I would say mid 80s yeah and like
0:24:10.520,0:24:13.799
it's sort of neat because I was I was a
0:24:12.240,0:24:15.640
teacher I was a phiz teacher but you
0:24:13.799,0:24:17.679
know in the school system for all these
0:24:15.640,0:24:19.919
years 30 years of that and retired now
0:24:17.679,0:24:21.600
but the educational thing still comes
0:24:19.919,0:24:23.960
through and if we could talk just for a
0:24:21.600,0:24:25.520
minute here about the lights because it
0:24:23.960,0:24:27.640
is pretty neat to look at the
0:24:25.520,0:24:29.720
progression so here's the deal when we
0:24:27.640,0:24:31.399
all start Predator hun for the most part
0:24:29.720,0:24:32.720
it's in the daytime let's face it
0:24:31.399,0:24:34.640
especially here in the Northeast you
0:24:32.720,0:24:36.960
know you see a fox or coyot you you want
0:24:34.640,0:24:38.640
to go after it so you grab whatever
0:24:36.960,0:24:41.279
firearm you had whether it was a rim
0:24:38.640,0:24:45.039
fire or whatever the case is and you
0:24:41.279,0:24:46.320
hunt but that daytime success back then
0:24:45.039,0:24:48.720
is because we were all babies at the
0:24:46.320,0:24:51.159
sport didn't come that easily and
0:24:48.720,0:24:53.600
somebody said you know it's a lot more
0:24:51.159,0:24:55.960
efficient to hunt these things at night
0:24:53.600,0:24:58.960
oh really so what did we do we went out
0:24:55.960,0:25:01.760
and got that oh there was a VHS that'll
0:24:58.960,0:25:04.480
date it VHS video called hunting the
0:25:01.760,0:25:07.440
night shift with Randy Booker and Randy
0:25:04.480,0:25:10.440
Watson yeah and that was like the Bible
0:25:07.440,0:25:12.960
so if you watch that and you get your
0:25:10.440,0:25:15.039
lights and go but here's the best part
0:25:12.960,0:25:18.159
the lights I I remember the name Randy
0:25:15.039,0:25:20.120
Watson is he's Texas Coy on her own oh
0:25:18.159,0:25:23.200
yeah big time he's a fox bro field staff
0:25:20.120,0:25:26.360
still yep yep so but here's the deal the
0:25:23.200,0:25:28.080
light choices back then were I almost
0:25:26.360,0:25:30.679
wanted for the predator on almost
0:25:28.080,0:25:33.279
nonexistent what we would do is go to
0:25:30.679,0:25:37.159
the auto store and get those great big
0:25:33.279,0:25:39.559
handheld 1 million candle power yep flat
0:25:37.159,0:25:41.399
uh search lights SP like big Spotlight
0:25:39.559,0:25:43.919
yeah yeah big big and they were
0:25:41.399,0:25:46.159
rechargeable yep but they had two huge
0:25:43.919,0:25:49.279
drawbacks this is outstanding the
0:25:46.159,0:25:52.080
battery life was 20 minutes and the
0:25:49.279,0:25:53.600
triggers always broke so course you
0:25:52.080,0:25:55.679
would go through oh yeah you would go
0:25:53.600,0:25:57.279
through multiple lights per season but
0:25:55.679,0:26:00.279
that's all you really had at the Advent
0:25:57.279,0:26:02.559
of all that yep okay y so but we and
0:26:00.279,0:26:04.080
they had a big old Snap-on red lens over
0:26:02.559,0:26:06.000
there we'll talk about colors here in a
0:26:04.080,0:26:09.799
little bit if you wish y but that's what
0:26:06.000,0:26:12.000
we would use and it was nuts and then
0:26:09.799,0:26:14.559
and then on on well it was message
0:26:12.000,0:26:16.240
boards back then there was no Facebook
0:26:14.559,0:26:17.919
like the Bark at the Moon Message Board
0:26:16.240,0:26:19.640
somebody going oh look what I rigged up
0:26:17.919,0:26:22.840
because the battery life was so bad
0:26:19.640,0:26:26.279
there was guys batter
0:26:22.840,0:26:29.600
yes in a backpack with a 12vt car
0:26:26.279,0:26:31.120
battery man you serious doing that yeah
0:26:29.600,0:26:33.960
I didn't do that I'd rather go to the
0:26:31.120,0:26:37.600
store and buy more of those but anyhow
0:26:33.960,0:26:39.919
after that it became those optronics
0:26:37.600,0:26:42.360
that 6volt battery light that was your
0:26:39.919,0:26:44.159
shooting light oh yeah yep which was
0:26:42.360,0:26:46.559
great now
0:26:44.159,0:26:48.919
illumination you couldn't really see the
0:26:46.559,0:26:52.120
animal you only saw the eyes right so
0:26:48.919,0:26:55.000
for years we were sh the eyes because it
0:26:52.120,0:26:56.960
didn't illuminate oh yeah so okay but
0:26:55.000,0:27:00.559
that was still a step up that was those
0:26:56.960,0:27:02.120
are the old days and that then it turned
0:27:00.559,0:27:05.240
into light
0:27:02.120,0:27:07.279
Force out of Australia yeah and they
0:27:05.240,0:27:09.000
were they would illuminate their problem
0:27:07.279,0:27:10.640
was the the wiring the Australian
0:27:09.000,0:27:12.919
lighting it would break like all the
0:27:10.640,0:27:14.320
time we would be hunting and luckily my
0:27:12.919,0:27:15.760
cousin was good he would always solder
0:27:14.320,0:27:18.480
up those
0:27:15.760,0:27:20.559
wires yeah oh yeah believe me and then
0:27:18.480,0:27:23.880
came LED lights and that was the big
0:27:20.559,0:27:25.720
game changer so then now LEDs they would
0:27:23.880,0:27:27.840
illuminate the whole Target so he
0:27:25.720,0:27:31.480
weren't just shooting at eyes well life
0:27:27.840,0:27:33.600
force did too but but anyhow the LEDs
0:27:31.480,0:27:35.559
now you can see what you're shooting at
0:27:33.600,0:27:36.720
battery life was great because they're
0:27:35.559,0:27:39.279
those
0:27:36.720,0:27:40.840
18650s which gives you about two hours
0:27:39.279,0:27:43.679
yeah okay and then put a bunch in your
0:27:40.840,0:27:46.000
pocket you go all night so that was nice
0:27:43.679,0:27:48.919
and now for today's guy you know there's
0:27:46.000,0:27:50.720
there's many choices so that's yeah
0:27:48.919,0:27:53.200
that's the progression of it anyhow well
0:27:50.720,0:27:56.279
you were you talking about you know
0:27:53.200,0:27:58.279
going to LEDs and stuff like that what
0:27:56.279,0:28:00.440
what is the biggest Improvement you've
0:27:58.279,0:28:03.440
seen in lights over the years would it
0:28:00.440,0:28:05.600
be changing over to the LED style light
0:28:03.440,0:28:06.760
would you consider that probably the
0:28:05.600,0:28:09.519
biggest
0:28:06.760,0:28:12.159
Improvement 100% now the lights instead
0:28:09.519,0:28:13.919
of being bulky they're lightweight don't
0:28:12.159,0:28:17.240
have to carry that car battery in your
0:28:13.919,0:28:19.120
backpack exactly totally portable
0:28:17.240,0:28:20.200
battery like we would just we' go on
0:28:19.120,0:28:21.559
hunt for an hour and you have to quit
0:28:20.200,0:28:23.799
because the batteries would be dead
0:28:21.559,0:28:25.399
right right back in the day can H you
0:28:23.799,0:28:28.480
can again you can hunt all night so I
0:28:25.399,0:28:30.880
would say portability
0:28:28.480,0:28:32.559
dependability illumination you can see
0:28:30.880,0:28:33.880
forever with these things yeah you know
0:28:32.559,0:28:35.799
there's a million Brands I don't know if
0:28:33.880,0:28:38.360
we want to get there's you can go online
0:28:35.799,0:28:39.960
and search I Fox throw's got the the gun
0:28:38.360,0:28:42.240
light the fire eyye that's I use that
0:28:39.960,0:28:43.559
fireye when I everyone once a year or
0:28:42.240,0:28:46.000
something I break out the lights still
0:28:43.559,0:28:48.519
just for fun yeah we got we've got the
0:28:46.000,0:28:50.600
gunfire gunfire now on the gunfire kids
0:28:48.519,0:28:52.120
got the fox lamp you know the head lamp
0:28:50.600,0:28:55.080
actually I actually used that last night
0:28:52.120,0:28:56.640
to track my deer so you know I use mine
0:28:55.080,0:28:57.919
well I use it with the IR with night
0:28:56.640,0:28:59.880
vision
0:28:57.919,0:29:01.840
like you say switch it over to white
0:28:59.880,0:29:04.039
light and it's the best that's what I
0:29:01.840,0:29:07.000
used that's I tracked him from from the
0:29:04.039,0:29:10.720
shot all the way to where he piled up at
0:29:07.000,0:29:12.320
I mean I actually I seen him go down
0:29:10.720,0:29:13.679
actually kind of I seen him then he kind
0:29:12.320,0:29:15.159
of went out of sight on me then I heard
0:29:13.679,0:29:18.399
him crash and I knew he didn't make it
0:29:15.159,0:29:20.360
to the woods but we're talking about
0:29:18.399,0:29:22.200
we're talking about a 80 acre soybean
0:29:20.360,0:29:24.679
field you know what I mean so you still
0:29:22.200,0:29:26.480
I still had to track the thing uh and
0:29:24.679,0:29:28.880
and beans are still standing but yeah I
0:29:26.480,0:29:30.880
used okay sor yeah yeah I I carry that
0:29:28.880,0:29:33.159
thing I got it in my backpack that's the
0:29:30.880,0:29:35.039
reason it's in there for tracking y oh
0:29:33.159,0:29:36.760
for sure yeah always have that always
0:29:35.039,0:29:39.919
have that with you it's great it's
0:29:36.760,0:29:42.279
wonderful and that operates on the 18650
0:29:39.919,0:29:44.600
battery the the fox lamp's got two of
0:29:42.279,0:29:46.880
them so it's oh there two in there yeah
0:29:44.600,0:29:49.640
yep it holds two it you know the like
0:29:46.880,0:29:51.799
the gun fire it has one but yeah that's
0:29:49.640,0:29:53.840
okay yeah yep it's it's got a lot of
0:29:51.799,0:29:56.960
battery life and it's it's like bright
0:29:53.840,0:29:58.159
too it's great so it's wonderful you
0:29:56.960,0:30:00.240
mentioned you mention something about
0:29:58.159,0:30:01.679
snapping one thing too it made me think
0:30:00.240,0:30:02.720
about you talking about I've been
0:30:01.679,0:30:05.399
sitting there thinking about it this
0:30:02.720,0:30:08.360
whole time you talking about the car
0:30:05.399,0:30:11.200
battery oh yeah I could just imagine
0:30:08.360,0:30:13.360
making that up but I'm not yeah no I I
0:30:11.200,0:30:16.279
get it I could I'm just picturing these
0:30:13.360,0:30:18.960
PE these Hunters packing a car battery
0:30:16.279,0:30:21.120
around um I actually you know I
0:30:18.960,0:30:22.640
mentioned it over the last podcast too
0:30:21.120,0:30:24.760
but there was a story when we was
0:30:22.640,0:30:26.559
talking about this Rimfire deal clay
0:30:24.760,0:30:28.919
Reed was talking about his parents his
0:30:26.559,0:30:30.279
mom shooting Cy with a 22 mag and that's
0:30:28.919,0:30:32.840
what his talking about said his I think
0:30:30.279,0:30:34.760
he said his dad would pack a light and a
0:30:32.840,0:30:37.000
car battery up on top of the hill to go
0:30:34.760,0:30:40.960
scan for His Coy any I was thinking
0:30:37.000,0:30:43.240
about that as well but um I grew up here
0:30:40.960,0:30:44.440
in Kentucky it's this is a lot of be
0:30:43.240,0:30:46.399
this is the beef cattle country and
0:30:44.440,0:30:48.880
that's what I'm that's my background I
0:30:46.399,0:30:52.960
come from a beef beef cattle family my
0:30:48.880,0:30:54.799
dad steal beef cattle Farms today and uh
0:30:52.960,0:30:57.880
you know when I used to work for
0:30:54.799,0:31:00.840
him we'd put a lot of electric fence we
0:30:57.880,0:31:02.720
you know kind of cut pasture in half and
0:31:00.840,0:31:04.600
stuff like it run strands of electric
0:31:02.720,0:31:05.840
fence and everything but anyway the
0:31:04.600,0:31:08.200
electric fence that we'd put out there
0:31:05.840,0:31:11.519
in these remote areas uh they run off
0:31:08.200,0:31:14.880
car battery or tractor battery so I I
0:31:11.519,0:31:16.960
have actually put car batteries in
0:31:14.880,0:31:19.399
backpacks before and packed them to
0:31:16.960,0:31:21.760
spots where I couldn't get a drive a
0:31:19.399,0:31:23.960
tractor or fourwheeler or you know when
0:31:21.760,0:31:27.320
it's bad wet or whatever so I have done
0:31:23.960,0:31:30.600
that in my younger days I it made me I
0:31:27.320,0:31:33.399
haven't thought about that in 20 years
0:31:30.600,0:31:35.639
that's great but yes I I I know what
0:31:33.399,0:31:37.960
it's like to pack a car battery on my
0:31:35.639,0:31:40.559
back in a backpack but I never thought
0:31:37.960,0:31:42.480
about doing it for hunt yeah yeah I can
0:31:40.559,0:31:44.600
safely say I don't I've never done that
0:31:42.480,0:31:46.159
but i' I've heard about it yeah that's
0:31:44.600,0:31:48.200
great well you were talking about
0:31:46.159,0:31:51.639
snapping on at red lens on those great
0:31:48.200,0:31:54.039
big old spotlight things uh let's talk
0:31:51.639,0:31:56.480
about the different colors uh like what
0:31:54.039,0:31:58.320
is your what have you found you see
0:31:56.480,0:32:00.480
people talk about red light all the time
0:31:58.320,0:32:03.519
what is your favorite light color for
0:32:00.480,0:32:05.720
predator hunting okay well now back in
0:32:03.519,0:32:08.679
the day this was the big debate whatever
0:32:05.720,0:32:10.480
the debates are now you know back 15 20
0:32:08.679,0:32:12.120
years ago light color wasn't the big
0:32:10.480,0:32:14.080
debate in fact in Predator extreme I
0:32:12.120,0:32:16.200
used to uh write a whole series of
0:32:14.080,0:32:20.799
articles about this because your choices
0:32:16.200,0:32:24.840
would be like white red Amber green blue
0:32:20.799,0:32:27.559
there was I see I don't remember blue so
0:32:24.840,0:32:29.600
they said that was interesting that
0:32:27.559,0:32:32.639
again blue light was recommended for
0:32:29.600,0:32:34.720
foggy nights foggy night really IED oh
0:32:32.639,0:32:38.200
yes I remember it well so did it did it
0:32:34.720,0:32:41.880
penetrate the fog was it true supposedly
0:32:38.200,0:32:43.399
yeah but to be honest with you and again
0:32:41.880,0:32:45.000
I'm speaking from someone from the
0:32:43.399,0:32:46.919
Northeast and this is how we did it I
0:32:45.000,0:32:48.799
know things might be down you know high
0:32:46.919,0:32:51.440
rck and Texas and different and all that
0:32:48.799,0:32:53.720
but for the guys in you know a lot of
0:32:51.440,0:32:56.399
guys who went by went in by foot and
0:32:53.720,0:33:00.159
tried to be mobile with all this use
0:32:56.399,0:33:01.639
these types of lights my experience when
0:33:00.159,0:33:05.159
it's all said and done after all the
0:33:01.639,0:33:08.320
surveys and blah blah blah red light
0:33:05.159,0:33:10.639
seems Seems to Spook the coyotes the
0:33:08.320,0:33:14.360
least and a lot of that has to do with
0:33:10.639,0:33:16.519
intensity also intensity is a huge word
0:33:14.360,0:33:19.960
um you can get into Kyo vision and what
0:33:16.519,0:33:22.360
they see the the old rule of thumb or
0:33:19.960,0:33:24.760
thought was oh coyotes don't see the red
0:33:22.360,0:33:27.519
light well they see it they just don't
0:33:24.760,0:33:29.639
know what it is right yep so
0:33:27.519,0:33:32.320
if it's less intense intensity is a huge
0:33:29.639,0:33:34.440
issue also and we talk maybe later here
0:33:32.320,0:33:38.679
about scanning techniques we'll get into
0:33:34.440,0:33:40.440
that but the Amber never did much for me
0:33:38.679,0:33:43.600
it was always red now I know there's
0:33:40.440,0:33:46.200
some guys uh like Jeff Thomson down
0:33:43.600,0:33:48.080
there in in Texas who uses the white oh
0:33:46.200,0:33:50.320
yeah yeah what about the white like yeah
0:33:48.080,0:33:51.840
Jeff Thomson with Predator Pursuit Chris
0:33:50.320,0:33:55.000
Robinson with the night crew they're
0:33:51.840,0:33:57.600
getting this amazing I
0:33:55.000,0:33:59.679
mean beautiful footage
0:33:57.600,0:34:01.919
for footage it can't be beat and for
0:33:59.679,0:34:03.960
some reason because it looks plenty
0:34:01.919,0:34:05.639
bright to me that's got to be intense I
0:34:03.960,0:34:08.599
mean they're having success so I tipped
0:34:05.639,0:34:10.679
my hat to all those guys in my
0:34:08.599,0:34:13.520
experience when you hit them with that
0:34:10.679,0:34:15.560
white light they're gone here in New
0:34:13.520,0:34:18.119
York now I won't even hunt with people
0:34:15.560,0:34:20.280
with lights because well you're all
0:34:18.119,0:34:22.359
thermal night vision now right well now
0:34:20.280,0:34:26.280
yeah yeah yeah because there's these
0:34:22.359,0:34:28.159
Northeast coyotes are so tricky you know
0:34:26.280,0:34:31.040
and whatever worry whatever you want to
0:34:28.159,0:34:34.280
say they take off now that now that
0:34:31.040,0:34:36.520
being said that's me I know guys I know
0:34:34.280,0:34:38.040
friends who use red lights now there's
0:34:36.520,0:34:40.520
nothing wrong with that and they're
0:34:38.040,0:34:42.440
successful it's sort of neat years ago I
0:34:40.520,0:34:44.720
was doing an article some guy up in the
0:34:42.440,0:34:46.839
northern part of the state Jonathan Roba
0:34:44.720,0:34:49.079
he was getting 50 plus coyotes a year so
0:34:46.839,0:34:51.159
I said well what a neat article so I
0:34:49.079,0:34:53.200
accompanied him at the time I was a red
0:34:51.159,0:34:54.639
light guy because that's all I had right
0:34:53.200,0:34:56.200
and he said this phrase I'll never
0:34:54.639,0:34:59.200
forget it we're sitting there in the
0:34:56.200,0:35:00.640
dark he's scanning and he says you know
0:34:59.200,0:35:03.200
there's nothing wrong with red lights
0:35:00.640,0:35:05.119
it's an art form really and as soon as
0:35:03.200,0:35:07.359
he said that it sort of stuck with me it
0:35:05.119,0:35:08.760
is an art form because I think that all
0:35:07.359,0:35:11.960
Hunters who are going to do it in the
0:35:08.760,0:35:13.240
night should start with using lights as
0:35:11.960,0:35:15.079
opposed to starting with thermal or
0:35:13.240,0:35:16.760
night vision because I think you can
0:35:15.079,0:35:20.040
learn by using
0:35:16.760,0:35:22.119
lights how it's fun to track them and I
0:35:20.040,0:35:24.160
think you can learn about how Predators
0:35:22.119,0:35:26.400
approach through the landscape better
0:35:24.160,0:35:28.200
because you can see the landscape versus
0:35:26.400,0:35:30.079
thermal all you really see is the white
0:35:28.200,0:35:31.599
or whatever color you're using black
0:35:30.079,0:35:33.640
mode you really can't see the landscape
0:35:31.599,0:35:36.000
as well I think there's something to
0:35:33.640,0:35:38.079
that so I love that statement that that
0:35:36.000,0:35:40.160
he mentioned with that you you ain't
0:35:38.079,0:35:43.480
gonna believe is but I got a question
0:35:40.160,0:35:44.960
here is is there an art form yes that's
0:35:43.480,0:35:47.839
actually what I've got here is there an
0:35:44.960,0:35:50.480
art form to using lights in a field for
0:35:47.839,0:35:52.440
success and if you can touch on that a
0:35:50.480,0:35:55.000
little bit you know like you mentioned
0:35:52.440,0:35:57.560
intensity of light uh right let's talk
0:35:55.000,0:36:00.520
about that I mean tell us about about
0:35:57.560,0:36:02.280
you know if you how you scan what
0:36:00.520,0:36:04.119
intensity you run do you turn it up do
0:36:02.280,0:36:06.760
you turn it down are you using just
0:36:04.119,0:36:09.440
putting the animals in the Halo you dead
0:36:06.760,0:36:11.760
center tell us about it well we can do
0:36:09.440,0:36:14.960
all that let's let's do this by going on
0:36:11.760,0:36:16.720
a a virtual Hunter for let's do it okay
0:36:14.960,0:36:18.839
so you and I get out of the car we got
0:36:16.720,0:36:21.200
lights red lights we red lights I slam
0:36:18.839,0:36:25.599
the door and you get turn R around and
0:36:21.200,0:36:27.839
get mad that's another thing ready ready
0:36:25.599,0:36:31.560
gee we could talk forever ready
0:36:27.839,0:36:33.720
woodsmanship skills are being
0:36:31.560,0:36:35.800
overlooked love it love it it's one of
0:36:33.720,0:36:38.720
my favorite terms in the Outdoor World
0:36:35.800,0:36:40.680
is Woodsman it's huge and I don't listen
0:36:38.720,0:36:43.800
I'm not I'm not I'm not the greatest guy
0:36:40.680,0:36:45.920
out there but but I I go a lot you know
0:36:43.800,0:36:47.880
so what you ready here's what you need
0:36:45.920,0:36:49.680
you need a healthy to be successful and
0:36:47.880,0:36:51.760
predator on no get back you need to have
0:36:49.680,0:36:54.400
a healthy population of predators you
0:36:51.760,0:36:56.040
need to have woodsmanship skills and you
0:36:54.400,0:36:57.599
have to have an understanding wife or
0:36:56.040,0:37:00.960
spouse or whatever who's going to let
0:36:57.599,0:37:02.440
you go okay yeah get back to
0:37:00.960,0:37:05.440
woodsmanship
0:37:02.440,0:37:06.599
basic it's it would help if if you if
0:37:05.440,0:37:09.079
you're fortunate enough to have a
0:37:06.599,0:37:10.599
grandpa or father or somebody a role
0:37:09.079,0:37:12.920
model who showed you how to do this when
0:37:10.599,0:37:14.960
you're growing up because a lifetime
0:37:12.920,0:37:18.560
with squirrels or turkeys or deer
0:37:14.960,0:37:21.119
whatever it all combines to hunting
0:37:18.560,0:37:23.079
probably the apex predator unless it's
0:37:21.119,0:37:24.920
Wolves but around here the coyo it all
0:37:23.079,0:37:27.119
combines to help you become more
0:37:24.920,0:37:28.720
efficient at that and if you don't have
0:37:27.119,0:37:31.720
basic woodsmanship
0:37:28.720,0:37:35.319
skills that $8,000 thermal may not help
0:37:31.720,0:37:37.319
you right right that's right and again I
0:37:35.319,0:37:39.079
there's I know you can't speak in
0:37:37.319,0:37:40.680
absolutes because anybody could go out
0:37:39.079,0:37:42.319
and press the button and get a coyote
0:37:40.680,0:37:44.520
but consistent and we all know the
0:37:42.319,0:37:47.720
consistent Killers out there they have
0:37:44.520,0:37:49.520
woodsmanship skills okay so yeah so we
0:37:47.720,0:37:51.000
get out of the car and you don't slam
0:37:49.520,0:37:52.160
the door because you have the woods and
0:37:51.000,0:37:57.079
six
0:37:52.160,0:37:58.599
fs and we walk out now right away let's
0:37:57.079,0:38:00.960
just say we're going to hunt a cut Bean
0:37:58.599,0:38:03.280
field or cut corn field doesn't matter
0:38:00.960,0:38:06.520
right away have your light on the entire
0:38:03.280,0:38:10.000
time because a lot of times you might
0:38:06.520,0:38:14.359
find a a critter boxer KY already in the
0:38:10.000,0:38:16.240
field so have the light on okay big time
0:38:14.359,0:38:19.880
make your way out to your stand with the
0:38:16.240,0:38:23.760
lights okay now hope that goes with
0:38:19.880,0:38:25.480
thermal too but anyhow uh you let's say
0:38:23.760,0:38:26.839
we don't see any Critters we sit down we
0:38:25.480,0:38:30.160
set our call out and that's another
0:38:26.839,0:38:32.839
issue how far to put the call at night
0:38:30.160,0:38:34.760
I've heard people say well you shouldn't
0:38:32.839,0:38:36.960
put it more than 20 yards out because
0:38:34.760,0:38:40.000
then you won't see the reflective eyes
0:38:36.960,0:38:42.880
that's 100% false I always put mine out
0:38:40.000,0:38:45.119
well not always generally between 40 and
0:38:42.880,0:38:47.960
70 yards away depending on the train
0:38:45.119,0:38:51.839
I've never not seen a fox or coyote's
0:38:47.960,0:38:54.760
eyes at any distance never so throw that
0:38:51.839,0:38:55.920
myth out the window right there so how
0:38:54.760,0:38:57.440
are we going to scan looks like we're
0:38:55.920,0:39:00.560
playing our sound doesn't matter what
0:38:57.440,0:39:03.599
for this discussion and we're scanning
0:39:00.560,0:39:06.240
so you need to there's a little boy this
0:39:03.599,0:39:08.520
it is an art form each person is going
0:39:06.240,0:39:11.119
to develop their own style of scanning
0:39:08.520,0:39:13.720
I've seen guys go really fast I've seen
0:39:11.119,0:39:16.480
guys go slow I'm somewhere in the middle
0:39:13.720,0:39:18.000
and it also depends on the terrain you
0:39:16.480,0:39:20.520
are hunting I'll touch on that in a
0:39:18.000,0:39:22.960
second you're scanning at a uniform
0:39:20.520,0:39:25.119
speed scanning the train I like to start
0:39:22.960,0:39:28.079
far away you know left or right or
0:39:25.119,0:39:31.680
whatever and bring the the beam into me
0:39:28.079,0:39:34.119
right how much how much uh you condense
0:39:31.680,0:39:37.480
your light or spread your flood out if
0:39:34.119,0:39:39.079
you have a adjustable uh light that that
0:39:37.480,0:39:41.480
let you do that that's going to be up to
0:39:39.079,0:39:44.599
you in your train but you'll see you'll
0:39:41.480,0:39:49.400
it gives you a pretty good Vision a view
0:39:44.599,0:39:51.680
anyhow you do that now if you're moving
0:39:49.400,0:39:55.880
around with your arm assuming you're
0:39:51.680,0:39:59.640
using a handheld scanner okay in a super
0:39:55.880,0:40:01.359
fast man man in my mind you could alert
0:39:59.640,0:40:04.079
a predator they might see you because
0:40:01.359,0:40:06.760
they're masters of detecting motion even
0:40:04.079,0:40:11.000
in the darkness that's why I tend to you
0:40:06.760,0:40:13.359
know use an e uh even smooth motion okay
0:40:11.000,0:40:14.520
so that that's part of the art form also
0:40:13.359,0:40:18.040
check this
0:40:14.520,0:40:21.440
out you want to scan faster scan your
0:40:18.040,0:40:26.960
terrain faster in a tight
0:40:21.440,0:40:29.760
environment versus a wide openen area
0:40:26.960,0:40:31.720
and here's why in a tight spot those
0:40:29.760,0:40:33.560
coyotes fox can show up at any second
0:40:31.720,0:40:35.480
and if you're going slow off to your
0:40:33.560,0:40:37.160
right they could be at the left right
0:40:35.480,0:40:38.960
right there and they might vacate before
0:40:37.160,0:40:41.240
you ever come back to them so that's why
0:40:38.960,0:40:44.319
in a tight space scan quicker right if
0:40:41.240,0:40:46.280
you're huge yeah if you're in a big wide
0:40:44.319,0:40:47.920
open area so most people don't think
0:40:46.280,0:40:49.920
about this if you're in a big wide open
0:40:47.920,0:40:51.480
area you can afford to go slower because
0:40:49.920,0:40:53.319
if you can catch and you'll catch eyes
0:40:51.480,0:40:55.240
at five six hundred yards depending on
0:40:53.319,0:40:56.920
your light that gives you plenty of time
0:40:55.240,0:40:59.520
to play them as they come in
0:40:56.920,0:41:01.359
right yeah makes total sense yeah yeah
0:40:59.520,0:41:03.680
so that's an important issue that people
0:41:01.359,0:41:08.079
don't think about so big areas you can
0:41:03.680,0:41:10.440
scan slower tight areas speed it up so
0:41:08.079,0:41:11.920
so that's that now let's pretend we do
0:41:10.440,0:41:14.319
get eyes because that's the fun part by
0:41:11.920,0:41:15.920
the way people even thermal guys now say
0:41:14.319,0:41:17.920
oh there's nothing when you f like when
0:41:15.920,0:41:19.680
you first get those eyes because it is
0:41:17.920,0:41:21.680
cool to see you know they're going to
0:41:19.680,0:41:23.319
reflect right when you use a red light
0:41:21.680,0:41:25.960
or whatever the case may be but it's
0:41:23.319,0:41:28.480
it's fun let's just assume it's red now
0:41:25.960,0:41:31.079
what do you do well it depends are you
0:41:28.480,0:41:33.280
by yourself do you have a partner okay
0:41:31.079,0:41:35.440
um no matter what if that predator's
0:41:33.280,0:41:38.839
coming in and you said the magic word
0:41:35.440,0:41:40.440
keep them in the Halo that means your
0:41:38.839,0:41:43.359
your beam of your light is going to be
0:41:40.440,0:41:45.839
circular you want to aim that light the
0:41:43.359,0:41:48.240
center of the light above the eyes I got
0:41:45.839,0:41:50.680
you I got you so over over top of the
0:41:48.240,0:41:53.359
animal exactly I'll tell you why in a
0:41:50.680,0:41:56.680
second the bottom of your beam I put the
0:41:53.359,0:41:59.359
very very very bottom of the beam on his
0:41:56.680,0:42:02.560
eyes that does two things it doesn't
0:41:59.359,0:42:04.800
give that Critter the maximum intensity
0:42:02.560,0:42:07.200
directly in his eyes and also more
0:42:04.800,0:42:10.960
importantly it doesn't illuminate the
0:42:07.200,0:42:12.359
terrain in front of the fox I got so it
0:42:10.960,0:42:14.200
doesn't spook them all the lights behind
0:42:12.359,0:42:16.200
them at that point right so they're more
0:42:14.200,0:42:18.720
likely to come in now does this mean
0:42:16.200,0:42:21.200
every time probably not but in a
0:42:18.720,0:42:23.280
majority of the time right right well
0:42:21.200,0:42:25.839
that makes total that makes total sense
0:42:23.280,0:42:26.720
I mean I never did think of it that way
0:42:25.839,0:42:28.800
you know
0:42:26.720,0:42:31.000
what part of the Halo actually hit them
0:42:28.800,0:42:32.640
but yeah that makes total sense yeah oh
0:42:31.000,0:42:34.559
it's got to be the bottom yeah keep them
0:42:32.640,0:42:36.079
in the Halo yeah the bottom of the Halo
0:42:34.559,0:42:36.880
you don't want you don't want the top of
0:42:36.079,0:42:38.960
the Halo because then you're
0:42:36.880,0:42:41.720
Illuminating all the vegetation around
0:42:38.960,0:42:43.920
them and that could keyword could spook
0:42:41.720,0:42:45.880
them you know you work hard to call I do
0:42:43.920,0:42:47.319
work hard to call these foxing coyotes
0:42:45.880,0:42:48.800
yeah so yeah you don't want to bloat
0:42:47.319,0:42:51.200
with that you don't want to be under gun
0:42:48.800,0:42:52.800
like we talked about earlier yeah yeah
0:42:51.200,0:42:54.680
we work we work hard you don't want to
0:42:52.800,0:42:57.680
burn one up with the light and they run
0:42:54.680,0:43:00.680
off or you shoot him with you 20 Too
0:42:57.680,0:43:03.640
Short yeah well you know what you got to
0:43:00.680,0:43:05.359
maximize your opportunities there you so
0:43:03.640,0:43:07.000
a lot of that's mental a lot of it deals
0:43:05.359,0:43:08.960
with your equipment in your in your
0:43:07.000,0:43:11.000
woodsmanship and your experience so
0:43:08.960,0:43:14.720
anyhow now if you're a hunt with a
0:43:11.000,0:43:16.160
partner and I've I actually rarely did
0:43:14.720,0:43:18.280
this because I always had the the
0:43:16.160,0:43:20.240
equipment sometimes one guy won't even
0:43:18.280,0:43:22.480
have a a light he just have a regular
0:43:20.240,0:43:25.160
gun regular Optics but his Partners
0:43:22.480,0:43:26.640
holding the light for him I gotta and if
0:43:25.160,0:43:28.000
that's the case if you're right-handed
0:43:26.640,0:43:29.559
shooter here's a little tip for
0:43:28.000,0:43:31.559
everybody if you're a right-handed
0:43:29.559,0:43:33.520
shooter so your face is sort of blocking
0:43:31.559,0:43:36.200
the scope have the guy on the light on
0:43:33.520,0:43:37.960
your left side because if he stands on
0:43:36.200,0:43:40.520
your right side that light's gonna go
0:43:37.960,0:43:42.240
into the scope it could some could bleed
0:43:40.520,0:43:44.920
in there then you can't see that's just
0:43:42.240,0:43:47.240
a little tip put the guy put the guy
0:43:44.920,0:43:50.359
makes total sense yeah yeah and vice
0:43:47.240,0:43:52.400
versa if you're a left is again just
0:43:50.359,0:43:54.319
doing things to optimize because that's
0:43:52.400,0:43:57.040
be sort of a bummer if you couldn't see
0:43:54.319,0:43:59.640
it at the moment of truth but any
0:43:57.040,0:44:01.240
uh and the same thing now the designated
0:43:59.640,0:44:03.800
light guy would again keep it in the
0:44:01.240,0:44:08.440
Halo and then when the Critter
0:44:03.800,0:44:10.240
approaches into shooting range which is
0:44:08.440,0:44:13.040
inside of 100 yards I would imagine for
0:44:10.240,0:44:15.200
most folks you know 50 to 100 yards
0:44:13.040,0:44:16.640
lower that or if you're by yourself
0:44:15.200,0:44:20.400
we'll talk about transition here in a
0:44:16.640,0:44:22.079
minute lower the beam so you can see the
0:44:20.400,0:44:24.839
entire Critter better give you a better
0:44:22.079,0:44:27.119
sight picture and then take your shot
0:44:24.839,0:44:29.240
does that make sense yeah lower yeah
0:44:27.119,0:44:31.079
yeah lower the beam so the full
0:44:29.240,0:44:34.200
intensity of the color now here's
0:44:31.079,0:44:36.760
another thing art form right yeah yeah
0:44:34.200,0:44:38.640
uh yeah some of your lights are gonna
0:44:36.760,0:44:41.280
have reat they're adjustable for the
0:44:38.640,0:44:43.520
intensity yep so what I used to do is
0:44:41.280,0:44:47.000
keep it low and I think with that that
0:44:43.520,0:44:51.559
fox Pro fire eye I would use like 50 to
0:44:47.000,0:44:54.960
70% for my scanning yep but then Crank
0:44:51.559,0:44:58.720
It Up for the shot okay okay start but
0:44:54.960,0:45:00.359
if yeah start lower 50% just so you can
0:44:58.720,0:45:02.079
all you want to do is see the eyes yep
0:45:00.359,0:45:03.920
at that point to detect again you don't
0:45:02.079,0:45:06.240
want to spook them so but when they get
0:45:03.920,0:45:08.280
in close no matter what you're using
0:45:06.240,0:45:10.319
increase the intensity with a rat or
0:45:08.280,0:45:12.720
whatever your switch is uh to give you
0:45:10.319,0:45:15.319
full illumination of your target awesome
0:45:12.720,0:45:17.599
that yep yeah makes total makes total
0:45:15.319,0:45:19.440
sense makes total sense yeah but one
0:45:17.599,0:45:22.480
thing we didn't talk about John there's
0:45:19.440,0:45:25.119
more lot to this if you're by yourself
0:45:22.480,0:45:27.319
and here you get those eyes at 300 400
0:45:25.119,0:45:29.160
200 yards whatever and you're got your
0:45:27.319,0:45:31.480
gun in your hand and you're scanning
0:45:29.160,0:45:33.599
with a a handheld scanner because here's
0:45:31.480,0:45:35.960
another thing we need to talk about this
0:45:33.599,0:45:39.119
I am not an advocate at all whether it's
0:45:35.960,0:45:42.680
thermal or lights of scanning with my
0:45:39.119,0:45:44.640
firearm right I know some guys do it but
0:45:42.680,0:45:48.240
it actually breaks number rule number
0:45:44.640,0:45:49.440
two of the gun safety rules never aim a
0:45:48.240,0:45:52.040
gun it's something you don't intend on
0:45:49.440,0:45:53.839
shooting exactly okay but I know guys do
0:45:52.040,0:45:56.480
it but whatever I'm not on a soap box
0:45:53.839,0:45:58.440
I've never done that so if you got your
0:45:56.480,0:46:01.920
handheld scanner and you get the eyes
0:45:58.440,0:46:04.240
the question is when do you switch over
0:46:01.920,0:46:06.599
because the transition from shooting
0:46:04.240,0:46:08.240
from scanning light to shooting light is
0:46:06.599,0:46:09.319
enough to Spook the Critter and that's
0:46:08.240,0:46:12.559
blowing your
0:46:09.319,0:46:15.079
hunt so there's a technique there too
0:46:12.559,0:46:17.040
right as soon as I get the eyes I would
0:46:15.079,0:46:19.520
leave that light on okay Pretend This is
0:46:17.040,0:46:22.000
my left hand and then I would turn on my
0:46:19.520,0:46:23.720
gun light so there's oh okay so
0:46:22.000,0:46:26.280
momentarily there's two lights on and
0:46:23.720,0:46:29.880
then shut that light off now they're not
0:46:26.280,0:46:31.960
seeing light darkness and another light
0:46:29.880,0:46:34.760
it's light light and then a little less
0:46:31.960,0:46:38.000
light right I got you I got you yeah
0:46:34.760,0:46:39.960
yeah now now your light on your gun what
0:46:38.000,0:46:44.119
intensity is it
0:46:39.960,0:46:47.079
at well that would then it great
0:46:44.119,0:46:49.839
question well well because the lights I
0:46:47.079,0:46:51.720
used to use didn't well I had one brand
0:46:49.839,0:46:55.200
that you could move it up and down but I
0:46:51.720,0:46:57.680
would surpris say like 7 75% okay that
0:46:55.200,0:46:59.920
light didn't need 100% would have been
0:46:57.680,0:47:01.720
really really bright right because
0:46:59.920,0:47:03.440
because our our the lights we have in
0:47:01.720,0:47:05.760
our lineups you know the fox lamp and
0:47:03.440,0:47:08.000
the gunfire and all that they have reats
0:47:05.760,0:47:09.640
you can adjust your intensity so you
0:47:08.000,0:47:11.640
know and we got mounts where you can put
0:47:09.640,0:47:14.359
them right on your scope firearm
0:47:11.640,0:47:17.000
whatever so yeah well yeah I've got that
0:47:14.359,0:47:20.200
in the IR so it's really not an issue so
0:47:17.000,0:47:21.800
um but but if you are by by yourself and
0:47:20.200,0:47:24.760
you're doing this also that Critter's
0:47:21.800,0:47:26.680
coming in you can transition from your
0:47:24.760,0:47:28.760
scanning to shooting
0:47:26.680,0:47:31.599
by using the train so if he gets behind
0:47:28.760,0:47:33.160
a tree or brush or a HED r or a null
0:47:31.599,0:47:35.599
that's when you want to switch so he
0:47:33.160,0:47:37.920
can't see anyhow right right don't if
0:47:35.599,0:47:39.640
you can help it ideally that's when you
0:47:37.920,0:47:41.800
would want to switch over because
0:47:39.640,0:47:43.680
otherwise you know they'll they'll see a
0:47:41.800,0:47:45.680
switch in in the format and they they
0:47:43.680,0:47:49.319
might grow weary at that point just
0:47:45.680,0:47:51.960
enough to make them flare yeah yeah yeah
0:47:49.319,0:47:53.839
so you mentioned uh you mentioned IR
0:47:51.960,0:47:57.240
lights which of course is for night
0:47:53.839,0:47:59.480
vision have I've I have seen before
0:47:57.240,0:48:02.359
where people have said that they thought
0:47:59.480,0:48:04.480
that maybe IR has spooked an animal on
0:48:02.359,0:48:05.960
them have you ever experienced that have
0:48:04.480,0:48:09.319
you ever seen a case where you think
0:48:05.960,0:48:11.720
your IR light has spooked an animal big
0:48:09.319,0:48:15.960
time I am a
0:48:11.720,0:48:17.839
huge advocate of the type of ir you use
0:48:15.960,0:48:19.119
ready and I have a lot of experience in
0:48:17.839,0:48:22.599
this and I know this isn't our
0:48:19.119,0:48:24.480
traditional red red LED lights we're
0:48:22.599,0:48:27.240
talking about but IR is a light and
0:48:24.480,0:48:30.119
here's the deal I've had some wonderful
0:48:27.240,0:48:32.800
hunts go bad when I turned on that I my
0:48:30.119,0:48:36.680
night vision those coyotes lock up and
0:48:32.800,0:48:39.559
run away really and and then last it was
0:48:36.680,0:48:42.839
very bothersome so what I did last year
0:48:39.559,0:48:44.599
with my hunting partner I said hey take
0:48:42.839,0:48:46.800
take the bullets out of your gun I'm
0:48:44.599,0:48:49.359
gonna go out there and turn that I light
0:48:46.800,0:48:52.119
on I want to see what it looks like it
0:48:49.359,0:48:54.400
looked just like a great big red
0:48:52.119,0:48:58.400
lollipop you can see the red you can see
0:48:54.400,0:49:01.119
the lens 100% they don't see the beam
0:48:58.400,0:49:03.040
that is extending but they see the glow
0:49:01.119,0:49:04.599
okay and it ask to goodness it was like
0:49:03.040,0:49:06.480
looking at a giant lollipop that's all I
0:49:04.599,0:49:08.880
can remember well no wonder they spooked
0:49:06.480,0:49:10.559
but here's the kicker there's two types
0:49:08.880,0:49:15.720
of ir a
0:49:10.559,0:49:18.119
940 and an 850 okay the 940s tend to
0:49:15.720,0:49:21.799
Spook the critters far less in my
0:49:18.119,0:49:25.640
experience okay again 940 Spooks less
0:49:21.799,0:49:27.200
than 850 the problem is 850s illuminate
0:49:25.640,0:49:29.319
better so you can see better in fire
0:49:27.200,0:49:30.680
right right right there's a tradeoff now
0:49:29.319,0:49:32.839
somebody's going to say oh my God what's
0:49:30.680,0:49:35.319
he talking about I'm just telling you in
0:49:32.839,0:49:38.720
my experience I've had some wonderful
0:49:35.319,0:49:41.559
hunts ruined when I turned on that ir
0:49:38.720,0:49:43.599
and that's what's nice about the fox pro
0:49:41.559,0:49:45.440
light because it's an 850 because I
0:49:43.599,0:49:47.599
asked when I bought it because I was so
0:49:45.440,0:49:49.160
much against an 850 but on that one you
0:49:47.599,0:49:51.680
can turn down the intensity so you're
0:49:49.160,0:49:53.319
okay yes you can yep yep they have VAR
0:49:51.680,0:49:55.319
stats on them you can actually get those
0:49:53.319,0:49:58.119
lights and and multiple colors where you
0:49:55.319,0:49:59.839
can flip change from IR to red or white
0:49:58.119,0:50:01.559
was just a flip of the switch you know
0:49:59.839,0:50:03.960
you don't to change out LEDs or nothing
0:50:01.559,0:50:05.559
so yeah and durable it's durable I can't
0:50:03.960,0:50:07.240
say enough about that like I know
0:50:05.559,0:50:09.200
there's a lot of great Brands out there
0:50:07.240,0:50:10.559
but oh yeah there he is yeah of course I
0:50:09.200,0:50:13.599
mean it was a savior because I wouldn't
0:50:10.559,0:50:15.119
buy an 850 straight on without the rat
0:50:13.599,0:50:17.079
right that's how much I believe about
0:50:15.119,0:50:20.640
scaring them oh yeah it's terrible
0:50:17.079,0:50:22.200
that's that's very very interesting very
0:50:20.640,0:50:24.200
interesting I never would I never would
0:50:22.200,0:50:27.200
have dreamed that so I didn't know there
0:50:24.200,0:50:29.680
was differences so oh yeah big
0:50:27.200,0:50:31.839
time well let me let me ask you this I
0:50:29.680,0:50:34.079
got a couple it's been really good
0:50:31.839,0:50:36.240
podcast very very educational because I
0:50:34.079,0:50:38.559
know very very little about night
0:50:36.240,0:50:41.200
hunting so we could change that you know
0:50:38.559,0:50:42.440
you can change that I know I like
0:50:41.200,0:50:45.040
sleeping at
0:50:42.440,0:50:48.079
night you're having so much success in
0:50:45.040,0:50:51.880
the daytime that I don't blame you for
0:50:48.079,0:50:53.799
for not being nocturnal but uh but uh
0:50:51.880,0:50:56.440
you know for me up here it seems to work
0:50:53.799,0:50:58.119
and it's a good right what's good about
0:50:56.440,0:51:00.400
night hunting is seriously now if you
0:50:58.119,0:51:02.079
have little kids we never used to do
0:51:00.400,0:51:03.720
this until the kids went to bed so you
0:51:02.079,0:51:05.200
could do all your family stuff put in
0:51:03.720,0:51:07.200
the bed and zip out for a few hours
0:51:05.200,0:51:08.799
right even even even when you're at work
0:51:07.200,0:51:10.599
you can hunt from like 9: to midnight
0:51:08.799,0:51:12.720
come course yeah it gives you so many
0:51:10.599,0:51:15.160
opportunities be out in the field yeah
0:51:12.720,0:51:17.160
exactly so that that's why I think was
0:51:15.160,0:51:18.920
popular but now you know we just kept up
0:51:17.160,0:51:20.760
with it I want to throw one more tip out
0:51:18.920,0:51:23.640
if I could sure for these guys because
0:51:20.760,0:51:25.839
it pertains to your LED lights and
0:51:23.640,0:51:29.240
weather because if you're out there in
0:51:25.839,0:51:30.559
the rain or snow okay in fog those
0:51:29.240,0:51:31.799
aren't the best conditions and I don't
0:51:30.559,0:51:34.000
like to do that because I that beat on
0:51:31.799,0:51:36.799
my equipment but if it's a tournament
0:51:34.000,0:51:38.200
you don't have a choice you gota go yeah
0:51:36.799,0:51:41.319
here's a great tip for everybody
0:51:38.200,0:51:44.319
typically when you hold your light okay
0:51:41.319,0:51:47.440
uh you hold your light up there it's an
0:51:44.319,0:51:49.799
eye level generally so you're looking at
0:51:47.440,0:51:52.240
eye level but if it's raining or foggy
0:51:49.799,0:51:55.480
or snowing now you're looking at a solid
0:51:52.240,0:51:57.720
beam of precipitation and it's horrible
0:51:55.480,0:51:59.559
yep not fun but all you have to do a
0:51:57.720,0:52:01.520
buddy of mine showed me this just lower
0:51:59.559,0:52:03.720
it to your knee level and do the same
0:52:01.520,0:52:06.480
scanning you don't see all that and you
0:52:03.720,0:52:08.440
see the eyes just fine weird okay that's
0:52:06.480,0:52:10.440
cool yeah it's just neat it's something
0:52:08.440,0:52:12.799
neat for the guys to try if you're out
0:52:10.440,0:52:14.319
there in the bad weather good stuff good
0:52:12.799,0:52:17.040
stuff all right I got a couple I got a
0:52:14.319,0:52:19.960
couple questions for you here go
0:52:17.040,0:52:21.640
ahead I know you switch stared out I I
0:52:19.960,0:52:24.040
know you switched over to Thermal night
0:52:21.640,0:52:26.200
vision stuff like that now but uh would
0:52:24.040,0:52:29.280
you rather hunt
0:52:26.200,0:52:31.240
with lights at night or would you rather
0:52:29.280,0:52:33.599
day
0:52:31.240,0:52:35.160
hunt well you know what let me let me
0:52:33.599,0:52:37.240
backtrack it ready for this after all
0:52:35.160,0:52:39.640
this conversation ready I think that
0:52:37.240,0:52:42.400
when you're hunting only Fox lights are
0:52:39.640,0:52:46.520
better really is that right yes yes
0:52:42.400,0:52:48.760
better than thermal yes and why why so
0:52:46.520,0:52:50.160
elaborate because they don't they don't
0:52:48.760,0:52:53.119
they don't spook as much to the lights
0:52:50.160,0:52:54.920
as a kyot will I see for sure well they
0:52:53.119,0:52:57.680
can't they can't spook to on a thermal
0:52:54.920,0:53:00.119
though and they no they don't they don't
0:52:57.680,0:53:02.720
spook but it's just more fun sort of to
0:53:00.119,0:53:04.920
see the red eyes and yeah yeah it's
0:53:02.720,0:53:06.480
quicker there's something about it now
0:53:04.920,0:53:09.119
that being said I think the I think
0:53:06.480,0:53:10.960
shooting with thermals hard well I've
0:53:09.119,0:53:13.799
heard it's a it's a learning curve I
0:53:10.960,0:53:17.240
mean I've been told you know now I I
0:53:13.799,0:53:19.200
have never actually held a gun and
0:53:17.240,0:53:21.200
looked through thermal at an animal I've
0:53:19.200,0:53:23.440
use you know the scanners and stuff like
0:53:21.200,0:53:26.000
that but I have never actually shot an
0:53:23.440,0:53:27.599
animal at night through th but I've Been
0:53:26.000,0:53:29.400
Told You know guys will tell say hey
0:53:27.599,0:53:31.839
there's a learning curve there you you
0:53:29.400,0:53:34.400
know you're liable to miss your first
0:53:31.839,0:53:36.200
shot or three when you first shoot with
0:53:34.400,0:53:38.599
thermal and I'm know it's like really
0:53:36.200,0:53:42.559
like oh yeah yeah yeah you will so
0:53:38.599,0:53:44.960
that's 100% accurate yes that's that's
0:53:42.559,0:53:47.559
wow I would much I'd much rather shoot
0:53:44.960,0:53:48.799
through a glass optic yep than because
0:53:47.559,0:53:50.720
don't forget these things are they're
0:53:48.799,0:53:54.640
computer generated images yeah it's
0:53:50.720,0:53:56.040
digital yeah yeah ex video game yeah
0:53:54.640,0:53:58.480
exactly
0:53:56.040,0:54:00.240
yeah now let me ask you this Andrew if
0:53:58.480,0:54:02.359
it let's talk about just coyot say if
0:54:00.240,0:54:04.319
he's going to call coyotes say if you
0:54:02.359,0:54:06.640
know I say you can either go out tonight
0:54:04.319,0:54:08.640
and call coyotes with using your lights
0:54:06.640,0:54:10.040
or you can go out tomorrow morning and
0:54:08.640,0:54:11.119
hunt in the daytime what you doing you
0:54:10.040,0:54:12.920
going to hunt with the lights or you
0:54:11.119,0:54:15.760
going out during the daytime for
0:54:12.920,0:54:17.599
coyes if it's in New York state I would
0:54:15.760,0:54:19.520
go with the lights at night okay if I
0:54:17.599,0:54:21.440
was out in South Dakota I'd pick the
0:54:19.520,0:54:23.160
daytime and that's because these
0:54:21.440,0:54:26.240
Northeast coyotes are so much more
0:54:23.160,0:54:27.559
active at night right more prod you got
0:54:26.240,0:54:29.040
a better chance of get one t night let's
0:54:27.559,0:54:30.760
put that way I got you I got so it has
0:54:29.040,0:54:32.960
all to do where where you're at in in
0:54:30.760,0:54:37.079
the country then for that
0:54:32.960,0:54:40.119
answer I've got I got one more question
0:54:37.079,0:54:42.079
for you go ahead you're gonna love this
0:54:40.119,0:54:45.799
one I think it's going to be pretty easy
0:54:42.079,0:54:48.799
one for you say your life depended on
0:54:45.799,0:54:51.440
you killing a c I asked gayus he he
0:54:48.799,0:54:53.799
loved it your life you say I'm going to
0:54:51.440,0:54:55.839
drop you off in some remote area you
0:54:53.799,0:54:57.440
have no way getting out of there
0:54:55.839,0:55:00.000
but if you can kill a Coy I'll come back
0:54:57.440,0:55:02.280
and pick you up okay so I hand you your
0:55:00.000,0:55:07.040
Fox Pro you take your x24 whichever call
0:55:02.280,0:55:08.640
you want to take x2s whatever and you
0:55:07.040,0:55:10.599
got a firearm that you want to take
0:55:08.640,0:55:13.000
whether it's AR bolt gun or
0:55:10.599,0:55:14.559
what you've got to call up a coyot it
0:55:13.000,0:55:16.040
has to be a called in coyote and you
0:55:14.559,0:55:17.880
have to kill it for me to come in there
0:55:16.040,0:55:19.319
and save your life or you have to live
0:55:17.880,0:55:22.200
the rest of your days out in the
0:55:19.319,0:55:25.559
wilderness okay right your option what
0:55:22.200,0:55:27.799
you get to choose is is
0:55:25.559,0:55:30.480
your caliber what cartridge are you
0:55:27.799,0:55:32.400
taking you only get one bullet you got
0:55:30.480,0:55:35.280
to call up a coyote you got to make sure
0:55:32.400,0:55:37.760
you kill it to save your life what
0:55:35.280,0:55:39.640
caliber are you choosing what are you
0:55:37.760,0:55:42.799
taking
0:55:39.640,0:55:46.720
243 awesome answer I didn't figure you
0:55:42.799,0:55:50.119
was gonna say 22 long rifle but no no
0:55:46.720,0:55:56.039
and now you I'm a 223 guy you know that
0:55:50.119,0:55:58.520
P 223 but but but like depending life
0:55:56.039,0:56:00.960
dependent on yeah two for more more kill
0:55:58.520,0:56:02.400
power exactly I think it's a I think
0:56:00.960,0:56:03.920
it's a great question I think it's
0:56:02.400,0:56:05.839
awesome because you'll PE see people
0:56:03.920,0:56:08.520
talk about these calibers that they love
0:56:05.839,0:56:10.039
and you're like really I mean that's
0:56:08.520,0:56:11.839
what you going to take all the time
0:56:10.039,0:56:13.240
you're like I love that caliber like
0:56:11.839,0:56:15.640
what if your life depended on what if
0:56:13.240,0:56:16.960
you had to kill this Coy well you know
0:56:15.640,0:56:18.079
if I just had to kill you I could still
0:56:16.960,0:56:20.480
kill him with I'm talking about like
0:56:18.079,0:56:22.520
called in Coy he could be running by he
0:56:20.480,0:56:24.559
could stop out there at 400 yards he
0:56:22.520,0:56:26.000
could be at 50 yards he could be quarter
0:56:24.559,0:56:27.480
and two he could be facing it could be
0:56:26.000,0:56:29.960
broadside running away you know there's
0:56:27.480,0:56:32.200
so many variables so when you throw in a
0:56:29.960,0:56:33.799
called in Coy that changes everything
0:56:32.200,0:56:35.760
whether you realize or not because you
0:56:33.799,0:56:37.920
don't always get those sh those perfect
0:56:35.760,0:56:39.520
shot opportunities I think it's very
0:56:37.920,0:56:41.400
telling when you put it that way and
0:56:39.520,0:56:43.200
they say well what are you taking what
0:56:41.400,0:56:45.839
if your life dependent on it what
0:56:43.200,0:56:48.599
caliber are you using Andrew lean says
0:56:45.839,0:56:50.599
243 it's one of the greatest Coy
0:56:48.599,0:56:52.440
calibers ever I think it's an awesome
0:56:50.599,0:56:56.520
answer awesome answer but there is no
0:56:52.440,0:56:58.640
wrong answers here but you know
0:56:56.520,0:57:01.240
preference well this was fun John this
0:56:58.640,0:57:04.000
is we touched on some good stuff we did
0:57:01.240,0:57:05.880
I'm glad you came on Andrew uh everybody
0:57:04.000,0:57:08.039
out there don't be so mad at me if I'm
0:57:05.880,0:57:10.000
bashing on your Rim fires too bad you
0:57:08.039,0:57:12.720
want to take them take them it's all
0:57:10.000,0:57:16.160
right maybe maybe I'll take one tonight
0:57:12.720,0:57:19.079
uh no I won't hey if you do if you do
0:57:16.160,0:57:21.599
make sure you post upst up on Facebook
0:57:19.079,0:57:24.319
talk about that I'll be with my I'll be
0:57:21.599,0:57:26.920
with my trusty 223 you know that there
0:57:24.319,0:57:29.799
you go there you go Andrew thanks for
0:57:26.920,0:57:31.880
coming on old buddy it's been a fun one
0:57:29.799,0:57:33.280
as always anytime John thank you all
0:57:31.880,0:57:34.839
right well hope everyone enjoyed this
0:57:33.280,0:57:38.599
episode we hope you join us again right
0:57:34.839,0:57:38.599
here on the fox Pro podcast