Jon Collins and Al Morris from FOXPRO explore the effectiveness of hand calls while coyote hunting.
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welcome to the fox Pro podcast brought
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to you by Fox Pro game calls hello
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everyone welcome back to the fox Pro
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podcast this is John Collins and I've
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got Big Al Morris on the line what's
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going on Al how are you John Collins
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doing doing well um you just got back
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from a trip to Wyoming coyot Colin it
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was good it was fun it hey it was a
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challenge the first uh day and a half
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figuring out what they needed to hear
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yeah but uh like everything else once
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you spend a few once you spend a few
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stands and realize what typically Works
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isn't working and you start pushing
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buttons um you start to figure out oh I
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guess they want to hear this and then
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the more you the more success you have
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on on when you when you find out it it's
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not going the way you thought it ought
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to go um the more success you have when
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you do start getting some to some sounds
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that are working right um you start
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ifying your sets you know you start uh I
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I firmly believe in a in playing the
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same sounds 247 365 but when I go down
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the list and I I get to the I get to the
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third or fourth sound before they start
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showing up that's when I realize it
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takes a modification in in in the in the
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series of steps and and uh then you
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start feeding them what they really need
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to hear right so I'm sure you started uh
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hitting those sounds that they were
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coming to a lot earlier in the stand
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after you you seen a few roll in I guess
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yeah yeah and then you know it towards
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the end I modified it back to my you
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know I always I always start out with
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lone house oh yeah and then then I go to
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some kind type of distress typically and
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then I I go into the pup fights the pup
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the pup distresses the the major fights
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and you know uh then I always
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incorporate the pup three and the and
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the pup screams and that before I finish
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a stand it's just become integrated in
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me over the years and uh the rabbit just
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wasn't working in Wyoming last week it
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just well if you played rabbit you were
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not killing any coyotes really and so
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then we we stuck to the the the pup
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fights the pup distress into the major
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fights you know and the table scraps and
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stuff like that was really that's what
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the seemed to really fire the coyotes
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off but then towards the end I like to
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you know I really think it's important
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and maybe this is a nugget of
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information that that a lot of guys
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haven't heard or after you do the own
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house to start a sequence I really want
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to give them something to fight over I
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really want to put a sound out there and
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it can be anything from Kid goat
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distress to the rabbits and if the
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rabbits aren't working I go to the birds
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right and uh I'm down in New Mexico a
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month and a half ago uh I played nutty
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nut hatch and in Wyoming I could play
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some nutty for just two or three minutes
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and then going to the pup fights and it
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was way more effective and uh so did did
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you all call any CS to uh prey distress
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you know did any show up PR distress
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they started I really think towards the
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end that that nutty nut hatch they were
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uh showing up at that uh you know F five
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to seven minute Mark and and I really
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think it was they were coming to either
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to the lone house little be whimper pup
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how cir lonely how uh bougie stutter how
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I really like that I really like that
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how and uh and then I'd go right into
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nutty for two minutes three minutes
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straight and then kyotes from that point
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on kyotes were showing up you made you
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made a good point there you was talking
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about you know coyotes may have be been
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coming to the lone housee I don't think
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some people realize how many coyotes
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that you can call in with just uh how
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howling you know because a lot of times
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you know you're when you let out those
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hows and start your stand uh however
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many you do and however many different
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ones you do you've probably got k it's
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already on it on their way your next s
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you play you're kind of just directing
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them on in right you know and then on
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top of that I would go into you know the
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advantage of having Magpie fight magp
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Raven peir Raven duet uh having some of
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those corvid Sounds playing I mean
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they're in direct competition with those
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uh with those every day yeah and so I
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really think that was The Key to Our
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Success Y and then you know you can see
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it on social media other guys were
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having trouble and they had to it's
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funny how uh guys from different parts
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of the country going to Wyoming were
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keying in on the same stuff so it was
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yeah I saw I saw a boy from the East um
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he's a man I can't want call him a boy
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but anyway he went out there I don't
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know if he's HED that hunted Wyoming
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before in the past but I saw that he was
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making some post I wished him good luck
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see was going out there yeah and he said
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he they struggled yeah yeah and and
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couldn't get nothing to come to pray and
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then figured out like you just said uh
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they were keying in on the fights and
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fights and all that type of stuff and
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they started smashing a few cows yes sir
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it's it's it's a I'm I've done this my
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whole adult life and I'm still learning
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and I guess that's why I like the sports
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so much oh yeah yeah it's a it's it's a
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challenge it can be a CH you know when
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they when they roll in on every stand
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that's awesome too but you know part of
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uh the reason and we love it so much is
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you know how challenging it is yeah
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sometimes you got to you going to make
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dry STS it's just part of it and I mean
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we kind of and when it works out starts
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clicking you know that's what we live
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for so U well back in the early to mid
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90s when me and Garvin teamed up you
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know it was uh it really was a challenge
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for us to uh call coyotes in and kill
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them and that's why I just it takes over
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did you all this this past trip there to
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Wyoming did you happen to hand call any
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while you were there yeah I did I did
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one stand I uh I love I love hand
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calling with uh playing Raven pear or
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magpies in the background and I've had
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some tremendous success you know I uh I
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killed a quad Nevada a few years ago
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that's on video and it was just I did
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that all handin and and you know hand
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Colin is our root that me and Garvin in
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particular that's I mean we didn't we
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couldn't afford a electronic CER I'll
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never forget we we bought a Johnny
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Stewart tape player from a secondhand
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store here in Utah that was our first
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electronic caller so we could locate at
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night y find coyotes at night with the
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um coyote locator uh on the Johnny
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Stewart that was our uh that was our the
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way we H at night more than we did with
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our open read Howers but we would we
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would do both on right all the time well
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on on this episode that's that's what
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our topic of discussion is going to be
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on it's it's going to be on a hand
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calling um we're going to discuss why
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hand calling is important and uh go over
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a few tips for for hand calling on you
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know throughout this podcast but it
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seems like in a way you know nowadays
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hand calling has become a lost art so to
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speak um years ago when Hunters would
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think about getting into coyot calling
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you know that's how you started out you
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started out hand calling but nowadays it
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seems like most hunters are jumping
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right into the electronic calls which
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there's nothing wrong with that um but
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hand calling um mouth diaphragms you
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open reads you Clos reads all different
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types of mouth diaphragms and hand calls
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definitely have their place and I know
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you've they've helped you win World
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Championships in the past and I know you
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still use them off and on today U you
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know in your every a profession of
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calling cows yeah no I don't I won't go
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out in the field without a k9 4K 9 pup
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you know the 4K 9 the um closed reads um
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an oak you know the four the 4K 9 and
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the 4K 9 pup are good open read calls I
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can call Elk with them I can uh uh I can
0:08:24.520,0:08:30.159
be a bird I can be so many different
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things and the advantage of
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those calls around my neck is if for
0:08:32.599,0:08:38.599
some reason there is an electronic
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glitch batteries die whatever it is oh
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yeah I am not done I can sit there and I
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I have enough confidence and I mean like
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I said me and Garvin started out hand
0:08:46.200,0:08:54.000
calling Garvin bought a Cersei a green
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Cersei beveled uh closed read call and I
0:08:54.000,0:08:58.640
always had a diaphragm in my mouth and
0:08:56.440,0:09:00.880
uh since 1983 I've been using a
0:08:58.640,0:09:04.360
diaphragm and that really dates a guy if
0:09:00.880,0:09:06.200
a guy is over 50 even probably over 40
0:09:04.360,0:09:09.160
um You probably started out with hand
0:09:06.200,0:09:11.959
calls because it wasn't until 93 95 that
0:09:09.160,0:09:14.160
fox Pro really came out prior to that
0:09:11.959,0:09:16.000
you only had options with tap players
0:09:14.160,0:09:17.959
some guys still have the eight track
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players and before that it was the
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records right you know so um anybody
0:09:23.079,0:09:30.000
that's started kyot Colin since 95 you
0:09:26.240,0:09:32.079
know 2000 uh probably started with an
0:09:30.000,0:09:35.680
electronic caller everybody prior to
0:09:32.079,0:09:37.600
2000 probably started with uh hand calls
0:09:35.680,0:09:42.360
and it's pretty amazing to me that the
0:09:37.600,0:09:44.920
old school OG hand cers um probably have
0:09:42.360,0:09:47.519
more appreciation for the electronic
0:09:44.920,0:09:52.440
callers work really good because there
0:09:47.519,0:09:55.959
was a progression in in uh uh e-collar
0:09:52.440,0:09:58.399
from you used to be Tethered to a wire
0:09:55.959,0:10:00.360
even the early you know the early tape
0:09:58.399,0:10:02.720
players I mean my first tape player I
0:10:00.360,0:10:07.000
ever saw my
0:10:02.720,0:10:09.800
father-in-law Marvin long had a uh it
0:10:07.000,0:10:12.040
looked like a fishing tackle box and at
0:10:09.800,0:10:13.600
the end of that fishing tackle box was a
0:10:12.040,0:10:15.959
where you could insert a tape and a
0:10:13.600,0:10:17.800
volume and you know fast forward rewind
0:10:15.959,0:10:19.519
all that on the end of it just a little
0:10:17.800,0:10:22.399
simple fishing tackle box that they had
0:10:19.519,0:10:24.160
integrated this tape player into and 30
0:10:22.399,0:10:27.880
foot of speaker cord onto a big old
0:10:24.160,0:10:29.680
metal TOA speaker so you'd unwind that
0:10:27.880,0:10:32.320
cord off that TOA speaker speaker and
0:10:29.680,0:10:33.640
set it down and and push play on that
0:10:32.320,0:10:35.200
and I'll never forget it was Johnny
0:10:33.640,0:10:38.040
Stewart
0:10:35.200,0:10:41.000
101c Jack Rabbit it's what I played out
0:10:38.040,0:10:43.920
there in that Nevada desert and uh it
0:10:41.000,0:10:47.279
was amazing but but I always told Marv
0:10:43.920,0:10:50.160
and at that time back in the early
0:10:47.279,0:10:51.959
90s um I always had a hand call I always
0:10:50.160,0:10:54.360
had my diaphragm in because that's all I
0:10:51.959,0:10:57.360
knew that's all me and Garin really knew
0:10:54.360,0:10:59.760
right was a diaphragm call and uh I
0:10:57.360,0:11:01.560
particularly had open reads that was my
0:10:59.760,0:11:03.480
yep that was my specialty and Garin
0:11:01.560,0:11:06.079
hated open reads he liked the Clos reads
0:11:03.480,0:11:09.079
right right and so we learned it was
0:11:06.079,0:11:12.000
pretty funny how if you watch the
0:11:09.079,0:11:14.800
masters of hand calling the guys that I
0:11:12.000,0:11:17.639
consider really good hand callers they
0:11:14.800,0:11:21.560
always have a Cadence that seems to
0:11:17.639,0:11:24.200
mimic th that same Cadence if you listen
0:11:21.560,0:11:26.000
to any of the tapes of the the the jack
0:11:24.200,0:11:30.079
rabbits any tapes of the cottontails
0:11:26.000,0:11:30.079
there seems to be that magical
0:11:32.600,0:11:37.680
and you can say it's a baby crying you
0:11:34.639,0:11:40.959
can say it's you know whatever it is the
0:11:37.680,0:11:43.760
really good hand callers and I'm talking
0:11:40.959,0:11:48.600
the Ed wimberly's the OG guys that I
0:11:43.760,0:11:51.959
have been on stand with um Bill CIS
0:11:48.600,0:11:54.519
those guys are they are legends in in in
0:11:51.959,0:11:57.680
the industry they're Legends uh to me
0:11:54.519,0:12:00.079
they're mentors to me and both of them
0:11:57.680,0:12:02.920
had incredible Cadence
0:12:00.079,0:12:06.560
when they hand called and that's Garin
0:12:02.920,0:12:08.639
young he's I mean he is the best I I'll
0:12:06.560,0:12:10.880
put I'll put Garvin young against
0:12:08.639,0:12:15.279
anybody hand calling because he's done
0:12:10.880,0:12:18.800
it his entire adult life um and he just
0:12:15.279,0:12:21.480
has a Cadence that when I hand call I
0:12:18.800,0:12:25.320
try to think of that Cadence as I blow a
0:12:21.480,0:12:27.360
call and then what made us so why we won
0:12:25.320,0:12:29.639
four World Championships is he had that
0:12:27.360,0:12:30.920
Cadence on that Cersei and I had that
0:12:29.639,0:12:33.760
diaphragm in my mouth and I didn't
0:12:30.920,0:12:35.399
realize I was always pup distressing I
0:12:33.760,0:12:36.760
was always and in that first week of
0:12:35.399,0:12:38.880
December which is when the world
0:12:36.760,0:12:40.920
championship was when it was the OG old
0:12:38.880,0:12:43.040
school rules of whoever brings the most
0:12:40.920,0:12:44.320
coyotes now it's a they still has a
0:12:43.040,0:12:46.240
contest out there called the world
0:12:44.320,0:12:47.839
championship and and it's just a
0:12:46.240,0:12:50.720
participation trophy now it's not the
0:12:47.839,0:12:52.120
same rules it's not the same uh format
0:12:50.720,0:12:53.600
and it's not the same Championship
0:12:52.120,0:12:55.199
anymore it's just not I don't care what
0:12:53.600,0:12:58.720
anybody says it's not the same
0:12:55.199,0:13:00.800
championship and in those days um we won
0:12:58.720,0:13:03.480
because gvin was on that Cersei I had a
0:13:00.800,0:13:05.440
diaphragm and an open read and I was
0:13:03.480,0:13:09.519
doing a completely different SE what we
0:13:05.440,0:13:12.920
didn't realize and later on in that uh
0:13:09.519,0:13:16.839
uh 20 2013
0:13:12.920,0:13:18.920
2010 uh 2013 we wanted again in 2016 is
0:13:16.839,0:13:21.279
we took two Fox crows on every stand
0:13:18.920,0:13:23.199
plus our hand calls yeah so we actually
0:13:21.279,0:13:26.120
at times had four different sounds
0:13:23.199,0:13:29.920
jacking out uh two on the electronics
0:13:26.120,0:13:31.600
two with our hand calls and uh
0:13:29.920,0:13:33.199
that's how we won the 2016 World
0:13:31.600,0:13:35.880
Championship was having more sound out
0:13:33.199,0:13:37.760
there and more but all those years we W
0:13:35.880,0:13:39.360
I know we won because I was doing pup
0:13:37.760,0:13:41.399
distress on the diaphragms while he was
0:13:39.360,0:13:43.120
doing the prey distress on that cersi
0:13:41.399,0:13:45.079
well and it really made a difference for
0:13:43.120,0:13:47.600
us that's that's one thing you mentioned
0:13:45.079,0:13:50.680
all those guys and and you know they all
0:13:47.600,0:13:53.399
had their own particular style of uh
0:13:50.680,0:13:55.839
Cadence uh to mimic jack rabbits cotton
0:13:53.399,0:13:58.759
tails and and what have you but I think
0:13:55.839,0:14:02.079
that is probably one of the the biggest
0:13:58.759,0:14:04.360
Pro I guess you could say uh for hand
0:14:02.079,0:14:06.639
calling uh you know with hand calling
0:14:04.360,0:14:10.040
you have your everybody has their own
0:14:06.639,0:14:12.480
unique set of sounds no two people sound
0:14:10.040,0:14:16.399
exactly the same so whatever type of
0:14:12.480,0:14:18.079
sound um far as Rhythm the Cadence the
0:14:16.399,0:14:20.360
whatever you're throwing out there that
0:14:18.079,0:14:22.720
that's your that's your call set
0:14:20.360,0:14:24.199
nobody's going to sound exactly like you
0:14:22.720,0:14:26.920
you know what I mean that's what's cool
0:14:24.199,0:14:29.800
is me and you can take a 4 K9 or a 4 K9
0:14:26.920,0:14:31.880
pup or even one of the closed reads
0:14:29.800,0:14:33.560
me and you are going to sound different
0:14:31.880,0:14:35.399
yes even if we're trying to make the
0:14:33.560,0:14:38.279
exact same Cadence even if we're trying
0:14:35.399,0:14:39.720
to make the exact same sounds yes me and
0:14:38.279,0:14:42.320
you are going to sound different and you
0:14:39.720,0:14:44.240
put 10 of us and you put 10 of us in a
0:14:42.320,0:14:47.160
room and that's what was fun about the
0:14:44.240,0:14:49.040
old uh uh Predator Expos is when they
0:14:47.160,0:14:51.560
had the World Championships on stage oh
0:14:49.040,0:14:54.360
yeah the stage Callin yeah yeah no it
0:14:51.560,0:14:57.560
was so cool to hear how every I mean
0:14:54.360,0:14:59.800
there was guys blowing the exact same
0:14:57.560,0:15:01.560
you know Carrie Carver call it didn't
0:14:59.800,0:15:04.320
matter what hand call it was they had
0:15:01.560,0:15:06.360
the exact same call but we're making
0:15:04.320,0:15:09.800
totally different rhythms totally
0:15:06.360,0:15:12.480
different sounds and uh hand that's that
0:15:09.800,0:15:16.079
is the magic of hand calling is you can
0:15:12.480,0:15:17.880
put stamp your signature onto that call
0:15:16.079,0:15:19.759
and there are guys out there that still
0:15:17.880,0:15:22.040
and all the forums and you see it every
0:15:19.759,0:15:23.680
day too John I know you do there's guys
0:15:22.040,0:15:25.360
on there whenever we start talking about
0:15:23.680,0:15:27.120
what great sound out is working out of
0:15:25.360,0:15:28.720
the fox Pros there's always that guy
0:15:27.120,0:15:31.959
that says I'll just stick with my hand
0:15:28.720,0:15:33.319
called oh yeah yeah and it's so usually
0:15:31.959,0:15:34.800
I love it because it's usually because
0:15:33.319,0:15:37.560
it's much
0:15:34.800,0:15:40.399
cheaper electronic call but at the end
0:15:37.560,0:15:43.440
of the day I know the killers I know the
0:15:40.399,0:15:46.680
guys that kill day in day out um they're
0:15:43.440,0:15:49.959
using both oh and they're using that's
0:15:46.680,0:15:52.959
right if if you're not that's a thing I
0:15:49.959,0:15:55.680
think if you're just 100% electronic
0:15:52.959,0:15:57.600
collar I think you know if you were to
0:15:55.680,0:15:59.959
implement hand calls and mouth
0:15:57.600,0:16:01.279
diaphragms you could probably get an
0:15:59.959,0:16:02.519
extra I ain't going to tell you how many
0:16:01.279,0:16:03.680
extra coyes you going to kill to end of
0:16:02.519,0:16:05.759
the year but you're going to you're
0:16:03.680,0:16:07.440
going to gain coyes throughout the year
0:16:05.759,0:16:09.519
if you're doing both and same thing if
0:16:07.440,0:16:11.560
you're just a hand collar and you don't
0:16:09.519,0:16:13.639
you're not full with electronics I'm not
0:16:11.560,0:16:15.519
saying you have to but let me tell you
0:16:13.639,0:16:17.759
you leaving kyot out there in the field
0:16:15.519,0:16:20.199
I'm just telling you it's how it is uh
0:16:17.759,0:16:23.600
it it it's simply a fact of numbers it's
0:16:20.199,0:16:25.880
simply a fact of sounds uh at the end of
0:16:23.600,0:16:29.600
the day and this is an old an old elk
0:16:25.880,0:16:31.920
Hunter told me old a malen told me this
0:16:29.600,0:16:33.519
the more sounds you put out there when
0:16:31.920,0:16:35.560
you're calling out coyotes I don't care
0:16:33.519,0:16:37.240
what it is geese ducks I don't care who
0:16:35.560,0:16:40.120
you are what it is the more sound you
0:16:37.240,0:16:41.800
put out there the more opportunity
0:16:40.120,0:16:44.199
you're going to have to trip that
0:16:41.800,0:16:48.040
trigger on the target animal you are
0:16:44.199,0:16:49.639
wanting to call in yeah so everybody
0:16:48.040,0:16:51.160
that's sitting there going man I haven't
0:16:49.639,0:16:54.120
thought about that maybe I need a hand
0:16:51.160,0:16:56.800
call you absolutely need a set of hand
0:16:54.120,0:16:58.959
calls around your neck because you are
0:16:56.800,0:17:01.120
going to trip more triggers and that's
0:16:58.959,0:17:04.640
really at the end of the day that's
0:17:01.120,0:17:07.760
that's how I that's how I um I guess
0:17:04.640,0:17:10.199
when we video for a living we uh put so
0:17:07.760,0:17:12.559
much pressure on ourselves to trip as
0:17:10.199,0:17:15.160
many triggers as we can and the more
0:17:12.559,0:17:17.439
tools you have it's it's a tackle box
0:17:15.160,0:17:19.600
it's a tool box it's the more tools the
0:17:17.439,0:17:21.799
more tackle you have the more fish the
0:17:19.600,0:17:24.280
more cars you can work on uh the more
0:17:21.799,0:17:26.919
fish you can catch the the the more
0:17:24.280,0:17:28.559
coyotes you're going to call in the more
0:17:26.919,0:17:30.799
you have at Your Arsenal the more you
0:17:28.559,0:17:33.000
have and the more you master it you're
0:17:30.799,0:17:35.559
not just going to pick up a hand call
0:17:33.000,0:17:38.160
and be a hand call wizard it takes some
0:17:35.559,0:17:42.600
practice that's that's exactly right and
0:17:38.160,0:17:45.640
and I think you know for just 100% ecall
0:17:42.600,0:17:48.679
guys I do think it is very important you
0:17:45.640,0:17:50.679
know for you to learn how to use some
0:17:48.679,0:17:52.520
form of of hand calls or mouth
0:17:50.679,0:17:54.799
diaphragms or or every you know
0:17:52.520,0:17:56.799
everything that's out there um I think
0:17:54.799,0:17:59.720
it turns you into a more well-rounded
0:17:56.799,0:18:01.919
Predator Hunter and I think it has you
0:17:59.720,0:18:04.919
know if you have the ability to run
0:18:01.919,0:18:06.880
those type of calls the benefits are are
0:18:04.919,0:18:09.200
endless uh you mentioned a couple of
0:18:06.880,0:18:12.799
murer I mean you know there's a lot of
0:18:09.200,0:18:15.080
us that don't really want to uh to admit
0:18:12.799,0:18:17.120
it but how many times and I guarantee
0:18:15.080,0:18:19.760
you there's listeners out here right now
0:18:17.120,0:18:21.360
uh that's listening this podcast uh but
0:18:19.760,0:18:23.440
you know how many times you been on a
0:18:21.360,0:18:25.799
stand and your battery die in your Fox
0:18:23.440,0:18:28.760
Pro unit because you forgot you ran it
0:18:25.799,0:18:30.520
for a month and forgot to charge it and
0:18:28.760,0:18:33.120
you know it just happens or batteries
0:18:30.520,0:18:35.039
die in your remote um you know then you
0:18:33.120,0:18:36.760
don't have any more batteries with you
0:18:35.039,0:18:38.480
just like you said earlier your stand's
0:18:36.760,0:18:40.440
not over if you've got a set of hand
0:18:38.480,0:18:42.960
calls around your neck or in your pack
0:18:40.440,0:18:45.840
or or diaphragms you can continue that
0:18:42.960,0:18:48.080
stand and probably kill kows John I
0:18:45.840,0:18:50.919
think it's into the
0:18:48.080,0:18:54.280
hundred I mean when you I've videoed I
0:18:50.919,0:18:56.960
have I have videoed Kyo since
0:18:54.280,0:19:00.799
1997 that's when I started videoing and
0:18:56.960,0:19:03.159
even before that I I put Kyle on uh uh
0:19:00.799,0:19:06.039
Dave Watson secrets of the hunt we put
0:19:03.159,0:19:11.640
it on TNN the Nashville Network that is
0:19:06.039,0:19:14.320
going way back um so it's
0:19:11.640,0:19:17.520
just through the years I can't tell you
0:19:14.320,0:19:21.320
how many stands I have saved or have
0:19:17.520,0:19:22.559
been hunting elk with these people and
0:19:21.320,0:19:24.320
it's funny when you're elk hunting and
0:19:22.559,0:19:27.600
you see a coyote it turns into a coyot
0:19:24.320,0:19:29.480
hunt oh yeah almost instantly and these
0:19:27.600,0:19:31.159
white tail Hunters are like yep in my
0:19:29.480,0:19:32.840
tree stand here comes a coyote I quit
0:19:31.159,0:19:34.280
worrying about the the deer that's
0:19:32.840,0:19:36.120
coming I'm going to shoot this coyote
0:19:34.280,0:19:38.280
cuz he's been eating all my deer and
0:19:36.120,0:19:41.799
turkeys um it's funny how when you
0:19:38.280,0:19:43.679
interject a coyote into a scenario um it
0:19:41.799,0:19:45.799
becomes a coyote hunt but if you just
0:19:43.679,0:19:47.760
happen to have that little Predator call
0:19:45.799,0:19:50.520
in your pocket that diaphragm in your
0:19:47.760,0:19:52.240
mouth um how you can turn whatever
0:19:50.520,0:19:54.280
you're doing into a coyote hunt
0:19:52.240,0:19:57.559
instantly because you have that hand
0:19:54.280,0:19:59.720
call available oh yeah so I keep want in
0:19:57.559,0:20:01.720
my white tail packet all times I keep
0:19:59.720,0:20:04.480
the you know I keep the r tantrum the
0:20:01.720,0:20:06.720
fox Pro tantrum clo recall it's in my
0:20:04.480,0:20:09.280
back I've got you know I've got several
0:20:06.720,0:20:11.360
of them but I don't go nowhere without
0:20:09.280,0:20:13.520
know everybody out there listen noding
0:20:11.360,0:20:16.720
their head because they they do it too
0:20:13.520,0:20:19.159
you want to have that ability to switch
0:20:16.720,0:20:20.799
the scene switch the scenario and if
0:20:19.159,0:20:22.679
you've got that doesn't matter if the
0:20:20.799,0:20:24.200
electronics fail the battery dies it
0:20:22.679,0:20:26.240
doesn't matter if you're just bow
0:20:24.200,0:20:28.000
hunting in a tree stand all of a sudden
0:20:26.240,0:20:30.760
you see a coyote out in that field or
0:20:28.000,0:20:32.960
out in that uh CRP or wherever on the
0:20:30.760,0:20:35.880
edge of wherever you're hunting you see
0:20:32.960,0:20:38.840
that coyot it instantly turns in
0:20:35.880,0:20:41.440
but back to what you said it makes you a
0:20:38.840,0:20:43.600
well-rounded Hunter I think we talk
0:20:41.440,0:20:45.919
about I've I think I've heard it in your
0:20:43.600,0:20:47.799
seminars I know I say it in mind there's
0:20:45.919,0:20:49.840
a certain amount of woodsmanship you've
0:20:47.799,0:20:53.120
got to inserch you got to insert
0:20:49.840,0:20:57.080
yourself yeah oh yeah You' got to insert
0:20:53.120,0:20:59.320
yourself into this uh uh outdoor
0:20:57.080,0:21:02.880
scenario we as people people we live our
0:20:59.320,0:21:04.799
lives 365 days a year going to work you
0:21:02.880,0:21:06.600
know the GU listening to this podcast is
0:21:04.799,0:21:10.520
driving to work going no tell me about
0:21:06.600,0:21:14.880
it Big Al going to work right now um but
0:21:10.520,0:21:17.400
if you will learn to go sit down insert
0:21:14.880,0:21:19.559
yourself into that Wilderness and one of
0:21:17.400,0:21:22.960
the most brilliant people I've ever
0:21:19.559,0:21:25.320
hunted with as far as calling animals in
0:21:22.960,0:21:27.039
was Eddie Salter you've heard me say
0:21:25.320,0:21:29.640
this before I say it in my seminars all
0:21:27.039,0:21:33.000
the time Eddie Salter taught me the
0:21:29.640,0:21:36.080
importance of inserting yourself into
0:21:33.000,0:21:38.880
that environment making a few quality
0:21:36.080,0:21:42.200
sounds and then letting that space
0:21:38.880,0:21:45.039
between the sounds you make that silence
0:21:42.200,0:21:46.799
and I think the silence in between
0:21:45.039,0:21:49.279
especially when you're hand calling
0:21:46.799,0:21:51.600
especially even pushing buttons on
0:21:49.279,0:21:54.200
electronic caller the amount of Silence
0:21:51.600,0:21:57.520
in between sound is as important as the
0:21:54.200,0:22:00.440
sound you play right right and that and
0:21:57.520,0:22:03.840
it's and it's all timing it's all a
0:22:00.440,0:22:06.760
natural rhythm in the woods and I think
0:22:03.840,0:22:09.720
the best hand colar in the world have a
0:22:06.760,0:22:13.159
better timing I think they have a better
0:22:09.720,0:22:15.600
intuition as to when to make sound if
0:22:13.159,0:22:18.520
they have spent time in the woods hand
0:22:15.600,0:22:21.440
calling or being as intimate as they can
0:22:18.520,0:22:23.720
be with whatever that is a turkey and I
0:22:21.440,0:22:26.840
think turkey hunters make the best
0:22:23.720,0:22:29.159
Predator Hunters because you're patient
0:22:26.840,0:22:31.559
an animal with the the size of a brain
0:22:29.159,0:22:34.840
that's their thumbnail has outsmarted
0:22:31.559,0:22:38.120
you a thousand times but you learn to
0:22:34.840,0:22:40.279
get in the rhythm of that turkey and
0:22:38.120,0:22:42.400
electronic calls are not legal for
0:22:40.279,0:22:43.760
turkeys in most in a lot of States
0:22:42.400,0:22:45.159
they're they're getting to be more and
0:22:43.760,0:22:46.559
more people are realizing that just
0:22:45.159,0:22:49.279
pushing a button doesn't make you g to
0:22:46.559,0:22:51.360
kill a turkey right um right or an elk
0:22:49.279,0:22:55.520
or anything else I think that electronic
0:22:51.360,0:22:56.799
calls ought to be open in any I I'm now
0:22:55.520,0:22:58.720
you're going to get me on a rant here I
0:22:56.799,0:23:00.919
think electronic calls ought to be legal
0:22:58.720,0:23:02.200
every 50 states I think if you're bow
0:23:00.919,0:23:05.640
hunting you ought to be able to use a
0:23:02.200,0:23:08.200
crossbow youth women old men like me my
0:23:05.640,0:23:11.640
shoulders going bad I can't draw that 80
0:23:08.200,0:23:15.480
80 90 pound bow like I did just 10 years
0:23:11.640,0:23:17.679
ago um I want to use a crossbow but I
0:23:15.480,0:23:20.159
think we need to do more about
0:23:17.679,0:23:21.919
getting uh some of these Electronics
0:23:20.159,0:23:24.159
opened up in some of these states but at
0:23:21.919,0:23:27.720
the end of the day if you'll go out and
0:23:24.159,0:23:32.080
use hand calls mouth calls and insert
0:23:27.720,0:23:34.000
yourself in into that um you know that
0:23:32.080,0:23:36.919
that that wild you're listening to the
0:23:34.000,0:23:39.240
bird sound off you're listening to the
0:23:36.919,0:23:41.960
nothing better than watching the sun
0:23:39.240,0:23:43.919
rise and you have inserted yourself into
0:23:41.960,0:23:45.919
the most wild place you can find where a
0:23:43.919,0:23:48.840
turkeyy goblin a coyote's Highland or an
0:23:45.919,0:23:50.880
elk's bugin and then Call that animal in
0:23:48.840,0:23:53.400
there John Collins there is nothing
0:23:50.880,0:23:55.400
better than that in the world nothing no
0:23:53.400,0:23:57.679
definitely that is one thing about hand
0:23:55.400,0:24:00.480
calling I mean anytime I call a coyote
0:23:57.679,0:24:02.200
in with with e calls or anything and I
0:24:00.480,0:24:04.600
don't want everybody to think that that
0:24:02.200,0:24:07.080
I'm we're doing this podcast and you
0:24:04.600,0:24:09.039
know most of you guys have not watched
0:24:07.080,0:24:11.480
me if you watch our videos watch me just
0:24:09.039,0:24:13.039
blow on hand calls all the time A lot of
0:24:11.480,0:24:15.120
times if you do usually I'm running a
0:24:13.039,0:24:16.679
mouth diaphragm I I like to howl on a
0:24:15.120,0:24:19.720
mouth diaphragm and followed up with the
0:24:16.679,0:24:22.080
eall and stuff but I I'm not what I call
0:24:19.720,0:24:23.840
an expert hand caller but I always keep
0:24:22.080,0:24:25.720
hand calls with me now that's how I
0:24:23.840,0:24:28.600
started out I was one of them that
0:24:25.720,0:24:30.640
started out hand calling and it was
0:24:28.600,0:24:32.520
there was electronic calls out at the
0:24:30.640,0:24:34.640
time like like you was talking about
0:24:32.520,0:24:37.039
told Johnny Stewart stuff and stuff like
0:24:34.640,0:24:39.559
that this was back in the 90s but it was
0:24:37.039,0:24:42.120
more me starting out hand calling it was
0:24:39.559,0:24:44.360
an ignorance thing there was no KY
0:24:42.120,0:24:46.039
hunters in my area I didn't know that
0:24:44.360,0:24:48.240
there was a such thing as electronic
0:24:46.039,0:24:50.720
call I just got lucky enough that there
0:24:48.240,0:24:52.880
was a few hand calls at my local bow
0:24:50.720,0:24:54.919
shop that I was able to grab uh and
0:24:52.880,0:24:57.120
start hand calling with and once I got
0:24:54.919,0:24:58.520
into it more and got to stud in it more
0:24:57.120,0:25:00.000
that's when I started finding out hey
0:24:58.520,0:25:01.880
man there's some electronic stuff out
0:25:00.000,0:25:03.440
here sounds pretty cool to try but you
0:25:01.880,0:25:05.159
know I was one of them that started off
0:25:03.440,0:25:06.520
that way but I want to get back to
0:25:05.159,0:25:08.039
something that you were talking about
0:25:06.520,0:25:10.120
there just a minute ago you was you was
0:25:08.039,0:25:13.600
mentioned Eddie Salter and talking about
0:25:10.120,0:25:17.279
the breaks uh pauses in your calling
0:25:13.600,0:25:19.600
sequences I think that is a a great tip
0:25:17.279,0:25:23.679
that I think we can touch on uh with
0:25:19.600,0:25:26.720
hand calling and it has many bits one it
0:25:23.679,0:25:29.000
adds realism those breaks and pauses
0:25:26.720,0:25:30.880
another thing is is if if you're
0:25:29.000,0:25:33.279
somebody that's used to like throwing a
0:25:30.880,0:25:35.240
ton of sound out with the e- call like
0:25:33.279,0:25:36.960
running sounds for several minutes in a
0:25:35.240,0:25:38.360
row and stuff like that and you think
0:25:36.960,0:25:40.159
that you've got to do that with your
0:25:38.360,0:25:42.360
hand calls listen you're going to get
0:25:40.159,0:25:43.919
yourself in trouble pretty fast you
0:25:42.360,0:25:45.880
definitely need to call in short
0:25:43.919,0:25:48.440
intervals probably because the worst
0:25:45.880,0:25:50.200
thing that can happen hand calling in my
0:25:48.440,0:25:51.799
opinion and I have done this how I hate
0:25:50.200,0:25:54.360
to admit it but it's kind of funny when
0:25:51.799,0:25:56.480
it happens you get mad at yourself but
0:25:54.360,0:25:58.440
just be like say I'm trying to mimic a
0:25:56.480,0:26:00.520
Cotton Tail or something you know I'm
0:25:58.440,0:26:02.039
just blowing blowing blowing blowing and
0:26:00.520,0:26:04.200
just you know all
0:26:02.039,0:26:06.440
that and then all a sudden here comes a
0:26:04.200,0:26:08.399
Coy coming and he's coming hard he's
0:26:06.440,0:26:11.720
closing the distance getting up air and
0:26:08.399,0:26:15.120
I find that I have made myself out of
0:26:11.720,0:26:16.320
breath cuz I have run that call way too
0:26:15.120,0:26:19.880
much and then you're sitting there
0:26:16.320,0:26:21.520
trying to huff and puff y trying to
0:26:19.880,0:26:24.000
catch your breath and then a coyote
0:26:21.520,0:26:27.640
shows up and then your your adrenaline
0:26:24.000,0:26:29.960
try to make try to make that shot yeah
0:26:27.640,0:26:31.600
no it's like run a mile and then sit
0:26:29.960,0:26:33.039
there and try and hit a Target at 100
0:26:31.600,0:26:34.960
yards that's running away from you
0:26:33.039,0:26:37.640
because they saw you huffing and puffing
0:26:34.960,0:26:40.799
or your hand moving and it's going away
0:26:37.640,0:26:42.679
from you and you learn to make uh you
0:26:40.799,0:26:45.840
learn to make some incredible shots
0:26:42.679,0:26:47.720
while you're out of breath yeah so I
0:26:45.840,0:26:50.240
think it's a I think it's a great tip
0:26:47.720,0:26:54.720
you know because I think what you said
0:26:50.240,0:26:56.440
earlier it does add that realism plus it
0:26:54.720,0:26:58.480
when you're making those pauses when
0:26:56.440,0:27:00.480
you're hand calling you're cutting down
0:26:58.480,0:27:01.840
on movement cuz that's one thing you've
0:27:00.480,0:27:03.440
got to understand you got to take
0:27:01.840,0:27:05.760
advantage of your cover your
0:27:03.440,0:27:09.559
surroundings when you're a hand collar
0:27:05.760,0:27:13.240
uh because you are now the call you
0:27:09.559,0:27:16.399
know sound is emanating from your face
0:27:13.240,0:27:17.840
yes and so you you that's we used to
0:27:16.399,0:27:19.120
wear the head Nets and the other thing
0:27:17.840,0:27:22.320
and the other thing Garvin young will
0:27:19.120,0:27:25.679
tell you is his pauses were making that
0:27:22.320,0:27:28.520
coyote hunt for him yes yes and that is
0:27:25.679,0:27:31.720
another flip side to hand calling that
0:27:28.520,0:27:34.840
when you do put those big breaks in or
0:27:31.720,0:27:36.760
your timing whatever you want to call it
0:27:34.840,0:27:39.120
you're making that K that coyote doesn't
0:27:36.760,0:27:42.000
hear a constant sound but he heard
0:27:39.120,0:27:44.799
enough to run out there and all of a
0:27:42.000,0:27:46.320
sudden he's got a hunt for you so you
0:27:44.799,0:27:50.080
know you want to set up where you can
0:27:46.320,0:27:51.760
see downwind that 100 150 yards because
0:27:50.080,0:27:54.640
if that Coyote's hunting for that sound
0:27:51.760,0:27:56.159
he may hook the wind to smell is that is
0:27:54.640,0:27:57.880
that a Cotton Tail I've already smelled
0:27:56.159,0:28:00.640
in this area is that a jack rabbit what
0:27:57.880,0:28:03.000
is right and they'll hook and part of
0:28:00.640,0:28:06.919
that and I've seen it with pups little
0:28:03.000,0:28:08.640
needly teeth pups never never been
0:28:06.919,0:28:11.039
called not a day in their life they'll
0:28:08.640,0:28:12.320
hook to get the wind because they want
0:28:11.039,0:28:14.080
first of all they want to know what it
0:28:12.320,0:28:16.679
is that was making that sound they want
0:28:14.080,0:28:19.279
to smell it and they want to also smell
0:28:16.679,0:28:21.320
it in case an adult coyote that they
0:28:19.279,0:28:24.159
that's beat him up a couple times you
0:28:21.320,0:28:26.840
know since the bust up which is that pup
0:28:24.159,0:28:28.640
break Up's happening right now I mean
0:28:26.840,0:28:31.720
the the the pups are going out on their
0:28:28.640,0:28:33.519
own they're I've little it always it's
0:28:31.720,0:28:35.440
amazing to me how it's innate in a
0:28:33.519,0:28:38.039
coyote's Behavior to hook down wind if
0:28:35.440,0:28:40.000
you give them a pause they will hunt you
0:28:38.039,0:28:41.480
and they will always hook the wind yeah
0:28:40.000,0:28:42.679
I I think sometimes unless they're
0:28:41.480,0:28:44.720
really hungry then they just run
0:28:42.679,0:28:45.960
straight yeah but all that but that
0:28:44.720,0:28:47.919
stuff you're talking about that's the
0:28:45.960,0:28:49.919
reason I think it you know implementing
0:28:47.919,0:28:52.559
hand calling and learning how to hand
0:28:49.919,0:28:55.840
call actually makes you a better Coy
0:28:52.559,0:28:58.760
collar in general even if 99% of the
0:28:55.840,0:29:00.480
time you're going to run ecall getting
0:28:58.760,0:29:02.720
in on those hand call stands and getting
0:29:00.480,0:29:04.440
those situations I think teaches you so
0:29:02.720,0:29:06.320
much I mean just like you were talking
0:29:04.440,0:29:08.880
about Garvin putting those pauses in he
0:29:06.320,0:29:10.880
sees a Coy come and he he hits a pause
0:29:08.880,0:29:12.720
to make that Coy hunt him now if that
0:29:10.880,0:29:15.799
Coy starts to hang up and he needs him
0:29:12.720,0:29:17.440
closer he know he it teaches them body
0:29:15.799,0:29:21.440
language of the cows how to read their
0:29:17.440,0:29:23.120
body language it it teaches you when you
0:29:21.440,0:29:24.760
can move and when you can't move you
0:29:23.120,0:29:26.360
know exactly what you cuz you're going
0:29:24.760,0:29:30.159
to have mistakes you're going to run
0:29:26.360,0:29:32.240
some coyotes off but I really think that
0:29:30.159,0:29:34.240
implementing that really makes you a
0:29:32.240,0:29:36.880
better coyote Hunter at the end of the
0:29:34.240,0:29:38.840
day because it teaches you so much about
0:29:36.880,0:29:40.679
that body language when you can move
0:29:38.840,0:29:42.559
when you can't move when you need to
0:29:40.679,0:29:44.200
take your shots you know it's just the
0:29:42.559,0:29:46.080
the possibilities are endless with that
0:29:44.200,0:29:47.600
and I just think it makes we were so
0:29:46.080,0:29:50.840
lucky because we would hunt from
0:29:47.600,0:29:53.960
California Oregon all the way to New
0:29:50.840,0:29:56.120
Mexico border of Texas you know some of
0:29:53.960,0:29:58.760
that country there and we didn't hunt
0:29:56.120,0:30:02.159
the Midwest we didn't get into Kansas in
0:29:58.760,0:30:05.440
Oklahoma but across from California all
0:30:02.159,0:30:08.480
the way through Arizona into New Mexico
0:30:05.440,0:30:11.039
we would find areas where he'd be
0:30:08.480,0:30:13.760
calling and then he would stop calling
0:30:11.039,0:30:16.120
for that pause and we would see coyotes
0:30:13.760,0:30:18.240
leaving as soon as that pause would
0:30:16.120,0:30:20.240
happen they needed constant you know
0:30:18.240,0:30:22.679
it's funny how we found areas where they
0:30:20.240,0:30:25.360
needed constant sound to stay on that
0:30:22.679,0:30:27.399
hook yep and if you stopped they went oh
0:30:25.360,0:30:30.799
[ __ ] you know this is and it was usually
0:30:27.399,0:30:33.480
in really thick mosquite ugly shotgun
0:30:30.799,0:30:36.320
country so Garvin would literally blow
0:30:33.480,0:30:39.000
till his lips hurt on that Cersei and we
0:30:36.320,0:30:41.279
would shotgun coyotes coming in but and
0:30:39.000,0:30:44.519
then he realized that he couldn't blow
0:30:41.279,0:30:46.039
loud he'd have to and it took us I don't
0:30:44.519,0:30:48.559
know it took us three or four trips into
0:30:46.039,0:30:51.240
this one area it was absolutely we would
0:30:48.559,0:30:53.679
how it at night with the with the tape
0:30:51.240,0:30:55.320
player at night and we found just
0:30:53.679,0:30:57.039
tremendous amount of coyotes they would
0:30:55.320,0:31:01.360
how how how but they would not come to
0:30:57.039,0:31:02.639
the call know in daylight and uh man we
0:31:01.360,0:31:05.159
found out that if he would just sit
0:31:02.639,0:31:08.120
there and blow really soft and
0:31:05.159,0:31:10.440
continuous um and after about half a day
0:31:08.120,0:31:12.080
he'd look at me his lips were you know
0:31:10.440,0:31:14.600
he couldn't even talk he couldn't even
0:31:12.080,0:31:16.519
talk right anymore because his lips were
0:31:14.600,0:31:20.720
yeah no his lips were formed into that
0:31:16.519,0:31:23.720
Cersei tone board and uh it just it's
0:31:20.720,0:31:25.519
funny how and it took us several times
0:31:23.720,0:31:28.519
of trial and error to figure out they
0:31:25.519,0:31:32.120
needed constant sound and so then
0:31:28.519,0:31:36.080
when we we actually won an fx3 back in
0:31:32.120,0:31:38.360
in ' 07 before I worked for Fox Pro we
0:31:36.080,0:31:40.880
actually won an fx3 at a world
0:31:38.360,0:31:44.600
championship and and Gerald Stewart gave
0:31:40.880,0:31:47.000
me a CD with all the the Johnny Stewart
0:31:44.600,0:31:49.399
sounds and we loaded that fx3 up with
0:31:47.000,0:31:51.519
with Johnny Stewart sounds and and
0:31:49.399,0:31:53.480
Garvin thought that was a godsend that
0:31:51.519,0:31:56.840
he could push a button he could push a
0:31:53.480,0:31:58.679
button and and in those areas that we
0:31:56.840,0:32:00.279
thought we needed constant sound so
0:31:58.679,0:32:02.039
there is places that you continually
0:32:00.279,0:32:04.360
blow but I have learned through the
0:32:02.039,0:32:07.240
years making a coyote hunt for me is
0:32:04.360,0:32:10.240
probably way more productive well just
0:32:07.240,0:32:13.399
going off that stuff you know I think
0:32:10.240,0:32:15.960
another huge benefit of being able to
0:32:13.399,0:32:17.840
hand call and implementing it is you
0:32:15.960,0:32:20.200
know getting in some of these areas
0:32:17.840,0:32:21.720
where you've got pressured Couts if you
0:32:20.200,0:32:23.919
go if you're sharing hunting ground if
0:32:21.720,0:32:25.840
you're hunting public ground out west or
0:32:23.919,0:32:27.240
or sharing private ground with other
0:32:25.840,0:32:29.240
people and you know they're just
0:32:27.240,0:32:31.840
hammering them e calls and just throwing
0:32:29.240,0:32:33.159
tons of different stuff out there
0:32:31.840,0:32:34.840
sometimes you can go in there with
0:32:33.159,0:32:37.760
nothing but hand calls and trick some of
0:32:34.840,0:32:39.600
those ler call Shy Co it's heard every
0:32:37.760,0:32:41.039
sound file H to the sun you can have
0:32:39.600,0:32:44.000
them run in like they've never heard a
0:32:41.039,0:32:46.200
sound in their life hand and it's that
0:32:44.000,0:32:48.000
it's that signature series that only you
0:32:46.200,0:32:49.880
will have with a certain call an open
0:32:48.000,0:32:51.880
read a closed read you're going to sound
0:32:49.880,0:32:54.000
different you know I know many of us
0:32:51.880,0:32:56.720
have heard guys call man that sounds
0:32:54.000,0:32:58.320
awesome you can buy that call you can
0:32:56.720,0:32:59.919
put it in your mouth and you don't sound
0:32:58.320,0:33:02.720
anything like that guy you know you
0:32:59.919,0:33:04.360
don't exactly and but it's your sound
0:33:02.720,0:33:06.639
and and so that's the other thing I want
0:33:04.360,0:33:07.880
to tell a hand caller that's or a guy
0:33:06.639,0:33:10.880
that's just thinking about getting into
0:33:07.880,0:33:13.360
a hand call remember it takes practice
0:33:10.880,0:33:16.120
it takes time and your sound is unique
0:33:13.360,0:33:18.720
and and at the end of the day just
0:33:16.120,0:33:21.159
believe have that trust and faith that
0:33:18.720,0:33:22.760
if you blow that call enough it's going
0:33:21.159,0:33:24.440
to come in and the more you blow that
0:33:22.760,0:33:26.919
call and the more success you have
0:33:24.440,0:33:29.120
blowing a hand call it'll just it'll
0:33:26.919,0:33:31.159
breed more success and and it just it
0:33:29.120,0:33:32.960
starts stacking up you start to build
0:33:31.159,0:33:35.760
that Cadence you start to build that
0:33:32.960,0:33:37.080
confidence in that call and the more you
0:33:35.760,0:33:38.320
do it the better you'll get at it the
0:33:37.080,0:33:40.760
more better you get at it the more
0:33:38.320,0:33:43.120
enjoyment you'll have physically breath
0:33:40.760,0:33:45.120
operating a caller and calling them in
0:33:43.120,0:33:47.639
definitely so I tell you another thing
0:33:45.120,0:33:49.679
and we both touched on it just briefly
0:33:47.639,0:33:51.559
earlier you mentioned it and then I
0:33:49.679,0:33:54.240
mentioned you running a diaphragm then
0:33:51.559,0:33:56.240
answering back with the eall um I don't
0:33:54.240,0:33:57.919
want to sound like you know you have if
0:33:56.240,0:34:00.039
you're going to have hand calls you just
0:33:57.919,0:34:02.080
you know when you go on a stand you just
0:34:00.039,0:34:05.120
just blow hand calls or you just use
0:34:02.080,0:34:07.639
your e call I think it's a one of the a
0:34:05.120,0:34:09.960
great tactic is to run both on single
0:34:07.639,0:34:12.000
stand you know run your hand calls and
0:34:09.960,0:34:14.480
run an eall that's that's something I
0:34:12.000,0:34:16.480
love to do I I do it a lot I haven't
0:34:14.480,0:34:18.839
done much of it this this summer but
0:34:16.480,0:34:21.520
during those de season months a lot of
0:34:18.839,0:34:24.560
times I'll howl on a diaphragm and I'll
0:34:21.520,0:34:27.320
answer myself back with my fox Pro and
0:34:24.560,0:34:28.760
then that's another tactic I it's I I
0:34:27.320,0:34:31.560
like it this time of year when you've
0:34:28.760,0:34:34.480
got uh uh the bus Stu happening and then
0:34:31.560,0:34:36.040
come breeding season man I love to how
0:34:34.480,0:34:38.639
and then have that fox Pro out there at
0:34:36.040,0:34:40.560
50 or 60 yards howling back answering I
0:34:38.639,0:34:42.800
think it's a it's a great tactic and
0:34:40.560,0:34:46.399
just like you were talking about running
0:34:42.800,0:34:48.599
your mag Pi's Ravens crows you can run
0:34:46.399,0:34:50.359
that on you on your eall and then be
0:34:48.599,0:34:52.079
just you know hammering on some kind of
0:34:50.359,0:34:54.440
bird stress or whatever with the hand
0:34:52.079,0:34:57.000
call it's been four or five years ago
0:34:54.440,0:34:58.720
now I was in Nevada in November uh
0:34:57.000,0:35:00.920
Jordan
0:34:58.720,0:35:03.720
AR guy was uh filming me and we're
0:35:00.920,0:35:05.680
sitting along that fence and I just for
0:35:03.720,0:35:10.680
whatever reason thought I just didn't
0:35:05.680,0:35:13.440
think the the Lightning Jack or or kg
0:35:10.680,0:35:16.680
was doing it so I just picked up that 4K
0:35:13.440,0:35:18.599
9 pup started a series started playing
0:35:16.680,0:35:20.960
magpies instantly when I started playing
0:35:18.599,0:35:23.920
magpies a whole group of magpies comes
0:35:20.960,0:35:26.240
in right well so then you got the youve
0:35:23.920,0:35:29.119
got I've got this visual of all these
0:35:26.240,0:35:31.320
magpies coming in Landing right 10t from
0:35:29.119,0:35:33.720
me on the fence and Jordan's trying to
0:35:31.320,0:35:36.240
film them magpies and I I started I said
0:35:33.720,0:35:38.079
this is going to work and so I I quit
0:35:36.240,0:35:39.640
playing the magpies on the fox Pro and
0:35:38.079,0:35:41.599
just let the natural magpies that were
0:35:39.640,0:35:43.400
Landing there and fighting around
0:35:41.599,0:35:46.200
they're you know doing the things the
0:35:43.400,0:35:49.000
magpies do and I start blowing that 4 K9
0:35:46.200,0:35:51.240
pup some more and lo and behold a coyote
0:35:49.000,0:35:55.480
shows up and he comes right out of the
0:35:51.240,0:35:57.839
fence 10 feet from us couldn't move cuz
0:35:55.480,0:36:00.319
I'm facing straight South the KY comes
0:35:57.839,0:36:03.839
in straight from the West 10 yards from
0:36:00.319,0:36:05.599
us goes starts down the road well Jordan
0:36:03.839,0:36:07.040
had a you know it was kind of a panic
0:36:05.599,0:36:09.520
because Jordan couldn't see the coyote
0:36:07.040,0:36:10.839
very well and I said are you even close
0:36:09.520,0:36:14.079
and I pull the trigger and you just see
0:36:10.839,0:36:17.319
hair go 10 feet in the air right I shot
0:36:14.079,0:36:20.200
that one well instead of turning us to
0:36:17.319,0:36:22.440
face that way west I kept up back on the
0:36:20.200,0:36:25.720
hand call Here Comes coyote number two
0:36:22.440,0:36:27.800
comes out the same place goes right goes
0:36:25.720,0:36:29.680
sniffing the Dead one laying in the two
0:36:27.800,0:36:31.480
well I stacked he you could see his head
0:36:29.680,0:36:34.800
on the third on the second one so I
0:36:31.480,0:36:36.359
shoot him back onto the hand call I
0:36:34.800,0:36:38.359
might have hit the button on the
0:36:36.359,0:36:39.880
electronic to go to pup distress 3 for
0:36:38.359,0:36:42.960
about 10 seconds and then back to
0:36:39.880,0:36:46.599
handing and the magp and another coyot
0:36:42.960,0:36:48.480
shows up at 130 yards shoot it and then
0:36:46.599,0:36:50.440
we're doing retakes because I just shot
0:36:48.480,0:36:52.319
a triple I'd been D I mean I'd been
0:36:50.440,0:36:54.520
talking i' been the dance of Love
0:36:52.319,0:36:57.040
probably happened sure no I dude it was
0:36:54.520,0:37:00.800
it was broke out already and I'm sitting
0:36:57.040,0:37:02.680
there and uh I'm doing retakes I pick up
0:37:00.800,0:37:04.480
I said get some video of me blowing this
0:37:02.680,0:37:07.160
just the way I was blowing it I'm
0:37:04.480,0:37:09.040
blowing on that 4 K9 pup for retakes and
0:37:07.160,0:37:12.280
here comes kyot number four running up
0:37:09.040,0:37:15.359
the two track yep and I shot him running
0:37:12.280,0:37:17.880
and I was like I was dumbfounded that
0:37:15.359,0:37:19.800
why you know the stand wasn't over it
0:37:17.880,0:37:21.680
wasn't even partially over but because
0:37:19.800,0:37:24.359
I'd shot a triple I was a little excited
0:37:21.680,0:37:28.440
trying to make video yep and uh and I'm
0:37:24.359,0:37:30.119
stupid so you can't fix that and and I
0:37:28.440,0:37:31.240
I'm not going to apologize for it and I
0:37:30.119,0:37:32.880
know there's guys out there that
0:37:31.240,0:37:35.640
absolutely hate it when I start yelling
0:37:32.880,0:37:39.200
and dancing and do
0:37:35.640,0:37:41.319
but why I do it right well if anybody's
0:37:39.200,0:37:45.359
been with me and you've been with me I
0:37:41.319,0:37:48.040
uh I still I still John get as excited
0:37:45.359,0:37:49.880
today as the first coyote I called in
0:37:48.040,0:37:52.920
when I was 12 that's what we love about
0:37:49.880,0:37:55.240
you Big Al and uh it's not ever going to
0:37:52.920,0:37:58.720
change and I grew up with hand calls my
0:37:55.240,0:38:01.359
first hand call was a lman would
0:37:58.720,0:38:04.240
uh it was an open read inside a piece of
0:38:01.359,0:38:07.240
wood and it sounded more like a duck
0:38:04.240,0:38:11.000
when I blew it than it ever did any kind
0:38:07.240,0:38:14.520
of rabbit and uh I still get as excited
0:38:11.000,0:38:17.240
as when I was 12 and I just turned 58
0:38:14.520,0:38:20.359
and uh I'm gonna do this till I can't
0:38:17.240,0:38:23.319
walk talk or breathe because this uh
0:38:20.359,0:38:25.960
predator hunting is I think that I i'
0:38:23.319,0:38:29.240
I've had my knife in 800 bull I I leave
0:38:25.960,0:38:31.560
Friday I I cashed in 28 points in
0:38:29.240,0:38:34.400
Colorado um I am going to go kill the
0:38:31.560,0:38:37.440
biggest bull of my life in Colorado I
0:38:34.400,0:38:41.040
hope you and uh with a muzzle loader and
0:38:37.440,0:38:43.200
uh as as passionate as I am about elk um
0:38:41.040,0:38:45.599
I still think my number one animal the
0:38:43.200,0:38:47.800
number one thing I call in and I do it
0:38:45.599,0:38:50.400
for a living now and I have done it for
0:38:47.800,0:38:52.880
a long time and I think hand calling
0:38:50.400,0:38:54.480
coyotes there is nothing cooler there
0:38:52.880,0:38:58.839
just there is nothing cooler in the
0:38:54.480,0:39:00.560
world than uh hand calling in the K one
0:38:58.839,0:39:03.119
thing I think is worth mentioning you
0:39:00.560,0:39:06.319
were you were talking about you know 4K
0:39:03.119,0:39:07.960
9 4K 9 pups and these different
0:39:06.319,0:39:09.640
different calls and I think it's one
0:39:07.960,0:39:12.240
thing that I think a lot of people
0:39:09.640,0:39:14.800
probably don't realize Fox Pro is so
0:39:12.240,0:39:16.280
well known for electronic calls you know
0:39:14.800,0:39:18.000
the number one electronic game call
0:39:16.280,0:39:20.480
company in the world the only one made
0:39:18.000,0:39:23.640
in the USA but what a lot of people
0:39:20.480,0:39:26.560
don't realize is we have full lineups of
0:39:23.640,0:39:29.560
hand Cs and mouth diaphragms we've got
0:39:26.560,0:39:32.319
uh the four K9 and 4K 9 pup those are
0:39:29.560,0:39:35.079
open read style hand calls we've got the
0:39:32.319,0:39:36.960
Tantrum which is a closed read call uh
0:39:35.079,0:39:39.560
what else we got the jackeline hide
0:39:36.960,0:39:42.680
which is a which is a closed read uh we
0:39:39.560,0:39:44.480
got a bite style call bite read call the
0:39:42.680,0:39:48.359
comicazi
0:39:44.480,0:39:50.720
and got individual here's the deal John
0:39:48.359,0:39:53.040
if somebody's an El cun or two you can
0:39:50.720,0:39:55.720
take that comicazi you can take the 4K 9
0:39:53.040,0:39:58.000
pup and the 4K 9 and you can call Elk
0:39:55.720,0:40:01.920
all day that it'll make the perfect elk
0:39:58.000,0:40:04.240
sounds but it see and when I blow a 4K 9
0:40:01.920,0:40:06.520
or 4K 9 pup an open read when I blow the
0:40:04.240,0:40:09.240
rabbit distress I turn the read down on
0:40:06.520,0:40:11.800
my lower lip flip flip it upside down I
0:40:09.240,0:40:14.240
flip it upside down and use my lip as
0:40:11.800,0:40:16.200
the pressure and I can be that I can
0:40:14.240,0:40:18.400
move that tone board the further out you
0:40:16.200,0:40:20.480
pull the call the higher pitch it'll be
0:40:18.400,0:40:23.200
the more you push it in and then when
0:40:20.480,0:40:26.119
you're out calling I push it I go
0:40:23.200,0:40:28.680
from I push the call in my mouth but I
0:40:26.119,0:40:31.680
turn it up and I use my my teeth as the
0:40:28.680,0:40:34.440
pressure on the read to get that perfect
0:40:31.680,0:40:37.920
elk sound out of those same calls and
0:40:34.440,0:40:39.960
that uh kamakazi you can it's a it's a
0:40:37.920,0:40:43.160
myar reed sandwich between two pieces of
0:40:39.960,0:40:45.200
hard plastic it is based on that style
0:40:43.160,0:40:47.760
of call is based on the pi Piper that
0:40:45.200,0:40:49.920
was made in Texas in the 40s yep by a
0:40:47.760,0:40:53.839
guy in Brownwood Texas I just blanked
0:40:49.920,0:40:57.839
his name but uh you can look it up um so
0:40:53.839,0:41:00.880
eel wood or E uh anyway I'm getting old
0:40:57.839,0:41:03.040
um but that that kamakazi call been
0:41:00.880,0:41:07.400
around since the early 40s maybe late
0:41:03.040,0:41:10.240
30s and and then uh Austin Bill
0:41:07.400,0:41:11.160
Austin uh he used to cut his uh hungry
0:41:10.240,0:41:14.960
man
0:41:11.160,0:41:18.760
trays uh the milar Hungry Man Trad that
0:41:14.960,0:41:21.200
he and that's was his reads on uh PVC
0:41:18.760,0:41:24.560
pipe and that's how he made his Howers
0:41:21.200,0:41:29.119
and his uh predator calls and then uh
0:41:24.560,0:41:32.079
you know um oh gez now I'm blanking
0:41:29.119,0:41:36.119
names as I was trying to think
0:41:32.079,0:41:38.760
uh you are getting old yeah no it's
0:41:36.119,0:41:42.319
anybody's got 28 points in Colorado to
0:41:38.760,0:41:43.880
burn yeah no there's kids and you know
0:41:42.319,0:41:47.160
I've got more points than some people
0:41:43.880,0:41:49.520
are have been alive and uh that's a lot
0:41:47.160,0:41:52.640
and I'm pissed at Colorado because they
0:41:49.520,0:41:54.440
introduced The Wolves I getting getting
0:41:52.640,0:41:55.880
I was going to sit and now they're
0:41:54.440,0:41:57.400
they're trying to do away I need
0:41:55.880,0:42:01.640
everybody everybody listening this
0:41:57.400,0:42:03.800
podcast go go to Colorado uh support the
0:42:01.640,0:42:05.640
coloradans and have them vote down this
0:42:03.800,0:42:07.760
new proposition the bill number just
0:42:05.640,0:42:09.839
came out yesterday that's it's going to
0:42:07.760,0:42:12.520
be on it's the proposition that's going
0:42:09.839,0:42:14.359
to be on the ballot in November um you
0:42:12.520,0:42:16.880
need to tell all your people in in
0:42:14.359,0:42:19.079
Colorado to vote no for this trophy
0:42:16.880,0:42:20.880
hunting ban trophy hunting's already
0:42:19.079,0:42:22.480
banned in Colorado but that this really
0:42:20.880,0:42:25.200
is a bill that they're going to try and
0:42:22.480,0:42:26.599
do away with all hunting in Colorado not
0:42:25.200,0:42:29.400
just the they're they're talking about
0:42:26.599,0:42:32.319
bobcats and lions but it's just not that
0:42:29.400,0:42:34.200
if you read the wording on the bill they
0:42:32.319,0:42:35.680
can potentially take away hunting rights
0:42:34.200,0:42:36.960
from everyone in Colorado that's all
0:42:35.680,0:42:39.960
they need to do is get their foot in the
0:42:36.960,0:42:42.400
door it's well and that's we cannot
0:42:39.960,0:42:44.800
legislate Wildlife Wildlife should be
0:42:42.400,0:42:46.920
run by the wildlife managers the
0:42:44.800,0:42:49.960
wildlife departments and when you start
0:42:46.920,0:42:52.800
legislating Wildlife Wildlife loses yep
0:42:49.960,0:42:55.400
so that's just the bottom line and we do
0:42:52.800,0:42:58.880
we do along with it
0:42:55.400,0:43:01.760
but but back back back to the hand calls
0:42:58.880,0:43:04.839
there you know of course we make the
0:43:01.760,0:43:07.400
hand calls but I will put these up
0:43:04.839,0:43:08.960
against anybody's we've got we've got a
0:43:07.400,0:43:12.119
combo pack it's called the furtaker
0:43:08.960,0:43:13.480
combo pack it has that 4K 9 the comicazi
0:43:12.119,0:43:16.680
and the Tantrum in it so you going have
0:43:13.480,0:43:18.040
a a bite style recall Clos read and open
0:43:16.680,0:43:19.960
read we've got two different open
0:43:18.040,0:43:22.400
recalls we got two different Clos
0:43:19.960,0:43:24.040
recalls and we've got that bite read and
0:43:22.400,0:43:27.960
another thing that people don't realize
0:43:24.040,0:43:31.839
is we have mouth diaphragms as well our
0:43:27.960,0:43:34.000
mouth diaphragms you know I'll put those
0:43:31.839,0:43:35.680
up against anybody's as well we got a
0:43:34.000,0:43:37.920
couple different combo packs we got the
0:43:35.680,0:43:39.359
loaded gun combo pack which are Hower
0:43:37.920,0:43:40.800
diaphragms which you can make pup
0:43:39.359,0:43:43.599
distresses and that type of stuff with
0:43:40.800,0:43:45.720
it as well um we got a predator combo
0:43:43.599,0:43:49.359
pack that's got I think it's got a Hower
0:43:45.720,0:43:51.920
in it a Cotton Tail U
0:43:49.359,0:43:53.480
diaphragm and uh we've got several
0:43:51.920,0:43:55.079
different we got the Gunslinger we've
0:43:53.480,0:43:57.160
got all kinds of different diaphram I
0:43:55.079,0:43:59.280
think we even got a new combo pack out
0:43:57.160,0:44:01.640
this year it's a Hower diaphragm pack
0:43:59.280,0:44:04.160
that's got a dome in it so you guys it's
0:44:01.640,0:44:07.440
not very that's a great starter pack to
0:44:04.160,0:44:11.359
learn the position in your mouth um that
0:44:07.440,0:44:14.359
Mr mouthy that that that
0:44:11.359,0:44:17.760
uh you know some people use natural cow
0:44:14.359,0:44:19.559
horn but that Mr mouthy comes with a uh
0:44:17.760,0:44:22.440
I can't think of what we the material we
0:44:19.559,0:44:24.200
made that Mr mouthy Hower out of but it
0:44:22.440,0:44:27.119
it sounds really good when you how
0:44:24.200,0:44:28.920
through that that megaphone on that Mr
0:44:27.119,0:44:30.359
mouthy Hower and it comes with a
0:44:28.920,0:44:32.440
mouthpiece that you can just use your
0:44:30.359,0:44:34.599
lower lip you don't have to be a diaph
0:44:32.440,0:44:37.920
some people just gag or can't use a
0:44:34.599,0:44:42.160
diaphragm yeah that Mr mouth it it comes
0:44:37.920,0:44:43.680
with a two read uh two read diaphragm um
0:44:42.160,0:44:45.119
I think it's a I think it's a Smoking
0:44:43.680,0:44:49.800
Gun diaphragm that it comes with from
0:44:45.119,0:44:52.119
Fox Pro but plus it's got a open read or
0:44:49.800,0:44:55.640
not yeah open read mouthpiece that you
0:44:52.119,0:44:57.440
can blow on and then it also has a latex
0:44:55.640,0:44:59.119
mouthpiece Hower that you can stick in
0:44:57.440,0:45:02.520
there so you can run it with just a two
0:44:59.119,0:45:04.280
read diaphragm an open read or a uh
0:45:02.520,0:45:06.319
latex mouthpiece hatler so it's like a
0:45:04.280,0:45:08.720
three in onep and I'm just gonna tell
0:45:06.319,0:45:10.400
you that white Smoking Gun that's my
0:45:08.720,0:45:12.559
favorite that's my that's the shiz
0:45:10.400,0:45:14.920
nizzle I'm just telling you if you
0:45:12.559,0:45:17.359
haven't tried that white Smoking Gun
0:45:14.920,0:45:20.119
diaphragm um there are other companies
0:45:17.359,0:45:23.040
even our our partners at mfk you can't
0:45:20.119,0:45:25.520
you can't knock Tory diaph great
0:45:23.040,0:45:27.720
diaphragms great diaphragms they are
0:45:25.520,0:45:30.000
they are the diaphragm I'm we'll just
0:45:27.720,0:45:32.599
say it they're the diaphragm gurus yep
0:45:30.000,0:45:34.359
of the coyot world they really are but
0:45:32.599,0:45:36.200
uh I can take that old Smoking Gun and I
0:45:34.359,0:45:37.920
ain't afraid to stand on stage even
0:45:36.200,0:45:39.400
though I know I'll lose I'll stand on
0:45:37.920,0:45:41.440
stage with them and blow that Smoking
0:45:39.400,0:45:43.079
Gun they're they're great products you
0:45:41.440,0:45:44.960
guys you guys check them out full
0:45:43.079,0:45:47.520
lineups of diaphragms full lineups of
0:45:44.960,0:45:49.440
hand calls um they're they're
0:45:47.520,0:45:52.040
inexpensive too I mean you can get the
0:45:49.440,0:45:54.400
hand calls around you know um well and
0:45:52.040,0:45:56.559
that's the guy you know the guy that's
0:45:54.400,0:46:00.200
can't he's thinking he wants that uh
0:45:56.559,0:46:02.480
extra 24 but uh he's got diapers he's
0:46:00.200,0:46:03.880
got formula uh there's more important
0:46:02.480,0:46:06.280
there's more important things than that
0:46:03.880,0:46:09.280
thermal guys there really is it's
0:46:06.280,0:46:11.280
growing that family but you can insert
0:46:09.280,0:46:13.200
yourself into the the the rifle you
0:46:11.280,0:46:14.760
shoot deer with I've told this in all my
0:46:13.200,0:46:17.200
seminars every year I've ever done a
0:46:14.760,0:46:20.319
seminar take the rifle you shoot deer
0:46:17.200,0:46:22.559
with get you a diaphragm get you a 4 K9
0:46:20.319,0:46:24.880
pup you can go insert yourself into some
0:46:22.559,0:46:26.480
coyote woods and you will figure it out
0:46:24.880,0:46:28.640
you will be successful I mean like I
0:46:26.480,0:46:30.680
said they're expensive those individual
0:46:28.640,0:46:33.079
hand calls we've got they're like 22
0:46:30.680,0:46:36.599
bucks uh our diaphragms are like the
0:46:33.079,0:46:38.280
individuals are 15 bucks um you know the
0:46:36.599,0:46:40.559
combo packs for the diaphragm are like
0:46:38.280,0:46:42.079
27 28 bucks and you can get our fur
0:46:40.559,0:46:44.400
taker combo pack which got three
0:46:42.079,0:46:46.760
different hand calls in it for like 43
0:46:44.400,0:46:48.640
44 bucks so they're inexpensive
0:46:46.760,0:46:50.760
especially for newcomers or you know
0:46:48.640,0:46:54.000
newcomers to the sport if you don't want
0:46:50.760,0:46:56.559
to drop a couple hundred bucks to get a
0:46:54.000,0:46:59.520
starter unit a Prowler or you know like
0:46:56.559,0:47:01.400
you just said you know the the x24 you
0:46:59.520,0:47:03.359
can start out with hand calls it can
0:47:01.400,0:47:04.920
still be done you'll still stack Co and
0:47:03.359,0:47:07.520
you can get into it you know fairly
0:47:04.920,0:47:09.800
inexpensively so definitely definitely
0:47:07.520,0:47:11.800
check them out and to the man and woman
0:47:09.800,0:47:14.680
that goes out there and and learns to
0:47:11.800,0:47:16.200
hand call effectively you've really you
0:47:14.680,0:47:18.880
you really accomplished something you've
0:47:16.200,0:47:21.079
inserted yourself you you've become your
0:47:18.880,0:47:22.240
woodsmanship is up your skills are up
0:47:21.079,0:47:23.839
because you went out there and tried to
0:47:22.240,0:47:25.920
hand call it's just going to be it's
0:47:23.839,0:47:29.040
just a fact Nate it is it's just a fact
0:47:25.920,0:47:31.920
I and I said it there's you know I I
0:47:29.040,0:47:34.040
love every time I call a Coy up it
0:47:31.920,0:47:36.839
doesn't matter what it's with you know
0:47:34.040,0:47:38.280
I've you know I love it just so it's a
0:47:36.839,0:47:39.920
great feeling but when you C when you
0:47:38.280,0:47:42.119
hand call one up it's got a little bit
0:47:39.920,0:47:44.800
different Lev level of satisfaction
0:47:42.119,0:47:47.400
yourest your chest pokes out a little
0:47:44.800,0:47:49.520
little bit further yeah hey I got I got
0:47:47.400,0:47:51.359
a question for you here for for here
0:47:49.520,0:47:54.559
towards the end
0:47:51.359,0:47:57.720
and if you were going to choose one hand
0:47:54.559,0:48:00.319
call to take with you what what one hand
0:47:57.720,0:48:03.839
call will you always make sure that you
0:48:00.319,0:48:06.839
have on your person when you are KY
0:48:03.839,0:48:11.040
calling that's easy that's easy easy
0:48:06.839,0:48:15.240
easy that 4K 9 pup 4K 9 pup and I'm I'm
0:48:11.040,0:48:19.480
telling you I can call I I have called
0:48:15.240,0:48:23.760
in Pennsylvania I called a 444 inch bull
0:48:19.480,0:48:26.800
with it on the same trip in Pennsylvania
0:48:23.760,0:48:30.720
I got coyotes to how I called in
0:48:26.800,0:48:33.760
multiple uh elk I I can take that 4 K9
0:48:30.720,0:48:35.760
pup I can be the the finest cottontail
0:48:33.760,0:48:38.920
rabbit you've ever heard I get out on
0:48:35.760,0:48:41.359
the tip of that call upside down and I
0:48:38.920,0:48:44.240
can be that
0:48:41.359,0:48:48.119
really I can be that really fine Cotton
0:48:44.240,0:48:50.839
Tail high pitched if I bury it if I bury
0:48:48.119,0:48:53.000
that call all the way against my lip I
0:48:50.839,0:48:56.280
can be the coolest sound in jack rabbit
0:48:53.000,0:48:58.000
or swamp rabbit or whatever wherever I'm
0:48:56.280,0:49:00.960
at what ever I'm trying to mimic I can
0:48:58.000,0:49:03.160
be that
0:49:00.960,0:49:07.040
that I can
0:49:03.160,0:49:08.520
really really swamp rabbit that I call
0:49:07.040,0:49:10.520
it the old swamp that you know that
0:49:08.520,0:49:13.799
sucker's got Moss on his ear between his
0:49:10.520,0:49:16.079
ears right he's an old mature rabbit
0:49:13.799,0:49:19.000
then I can go back to where I was cotton
0:49:16.079,0:49:22.359
tailing and do
0:49:19.000,0:49:24.920
that I can be a fwn instant Fawn
0:49:22.359,0:49:28.280
distress where I jack rabbit I can be
0:49:24.920,0:49:31.079
that biggest dough that's ever ever been
0:49:28.280,0:49:33.400
then if I'm in woods if I'm in seedar if
0:49:31.079,0:49:36.200
I'm where there's lots of birds I could
0:49:33.400,0:49:38.040
go back to the Cotton Tail position and
0:49:36.200,0:49:41.280
I can Trill my
0:49:38.040,0:49:44.680
tongue really fast and I can be that
0:49:41.280,0:49:47.640
woodpecker right right yep and I instant
0:49:44.680,0:49:50.680
bird and I'm just telling you if I see a
0:49:47.640,0:49:53.720
bobcat if I I have been I have been on
0:49:50.680,0:49:56.160
stand and I see a bobcat I will just
0:49:53.720,0:49:58.359
switch to trilling my tongue on that 4K
0:49:56.160,0:50:00.119
pup and that Bobcat's usually twitching
0:49:58.359,0:50:03.079
his tail at 20 yards looking at me
0:50:00.119,0:50:05.319
blinking ready to jump on me because it
0:50:03.079,0:50:07.680
heard that bird and it there's nothing
0:50:05.319,0:50:10.079
Sylvester Tweety I'm telling you if you
0:50:07.680,0:50:12.079
want to kill Bobcats and you want to do
0:50:10.079,0:50:13.799
it with a hand call you Trill your
0:50:12.079,0:50:15.960
tongue really high pitched you're gonna
0:50:13.799,0:50:19.520
call in a Bobcat it's it's it's that
0:50:15.960,0:50:21.720
simple yep um I think calling Bobcats is
0:50:19.520,0:50:23.839
simple uh if you know they're there and
0:50:21.720,0:50:26.839
they're in the area just they're not the
0:50:23.839,0:50:29.079
most intelligent animal in the world no
0:50:26.839,0:50:32.280
give them too much credit yeah Jeff
0:50:29.079,0:50:36.359
Ryder says they're dumb so Jeff Ryder
0:50:32.280,0:50:38.160
right no he says they're dumb um it's
0:50:36.359,0:50:40.760
just because he's polluted Kansas is
0:50:38.160,0:50:41.839
polluted with with Bobcats and and he
0:50:40.760,0:50:45.079
calls him in all the time when he's
0:50:41.839,0:50:49.520
trying to kill kyotes and so that 4 K9
0:50:45.079,0:50:53.240
pup you flip it over and I use my teeth
0:50:49.520,0:50:56.440
I can be that pup how I can be that pup
0:50:53.240,0:50:58.520
distress so how many sounds uh have you
0:50:56.440,0:51:00.040
been keeping track how many sounds I've
0:50:58.520,0:51:02.920
lost you
0:51:00.040,0:51:06.640
make I'm telling you you can get 10 or
0:51:02.920,0:51:08.520
12 sounds with a 4 K9 pup and you can be
0:51:06.640,0:51:11.440
you can insert yourself into any
0:51:08.520,0:51:14.160
scenario in the woods with a 4 K9 pup
0:51:11.440,0:51:18.040
I'm just telling you and I can kill so
0:51:14.160,0:51:21.520
many animals with a 4 can9 pup um that
0:51:18.040,0:51:23.119
is all if if the apocalypse happens and
0:51:21.520,0:51:26.200
I have one call around my neck it's
0:51:23.119,0:51:29.280
going to be that 4K 9 pup the 4K 9 is
0:51:26.200,0:51:32.559
just as good but everything is much more
0:51:29.280,0:51:35.760
it's much louder that myar is thicker
0:51:32.559,0:51:38.079
you can make better deeper hows it has
0:51:35.760,0:51:39.640
better resonance for the howling and
0:51:38.079,0:51:42.839
stuff like that but it doesn't get as
0:51:39.640,0:51:45.119
fine as sounds for the the birds and the
0:51:42.839,0:51:47.240
and the cotton Tails so that's why I
0:51:45.119,0:51:50.200
think the 4 K9 pup is
0:51:47.240,0:51:52.760
superior um when a bull hangs up at 70
0:51:50.200,0:51:55.000
80 100 yards I can get on that little 4K
0:51:52.760,0:51:59.440
9 pup and just
0:51:55.000,0:52:01.440
go make the calf cow sounds sound like a
0:51:59.440,0:52:03.640
cow with a calf and those big bulls just
0:52:01.440,0:52:07.280
go oh hello ladies he'll just come
0:52:03.640,0:52:10.119
walking right in and uh that's that's my
0:52:07.280,0:52:12.160
go-to um Garvin will tell you that a
0:52:10.119,0:52:15.359
good closed reads you know a Cersei
0:52:12.160,0:52:18.520
mimic which is our um what's our Clos
0:52:15.359,0:52:21.200
read called the that's I'll step in here
0:52:18.520,0:52:23.400
because I'm gonna cheat a little bit you
0:52:21.200,0:52:25.680
can't cheat I'm gonna cheat hey I'm the
0:52:23.400,0:52:27.359
host of the podcast I can do whatever I
0:52:25.680,0:52:30.359
want
0:52:27.359,0:52:32.000
Che and my answer is the Tantrum which
0:52:30.359,0:52:33.880
is a closed read we got two different
0:52:32.000,0:52:35.640
closed reads we got the jackon hiide and
0:52:33.880,0:52:38.119
we got the Tantrum kind of same
0:52:35.640,0:52:40.240
difference between uh um I think the
0:52:38.119,0:52:42.280
jack on Hy's actually has got two reads
0:52:40.240,0:52:44.040
in it yeah no it's got two reads yeah
0:52:42.280,0:52:46.839
but anyway I like the Tantrum it's a
0:52:44.040,0:52:50.599
smaller closed recall
0:52:46.839,0:52:53.640
um I can do jack rabbits I can do uh
0:52:50.599,0:52:56.680
cotton Tails I can even make a fawn ball
0:52:53.640,0:52:59.839
with it so I've got all my yeah got my
0:52:56.680,0:53:03.200
pra stuff covered what it will not do
0:52:59.839,0:53:05.839
that your 4K 9 pup will do is I you
0:53:03.200,0:53:08.920
can't do any kind of coyot vocals with
0:53:05.839,0:53:11.760
it here's here's where I'm gonna cheat
0:53:08.920,0:53:15.200
okay I've got a mouth diaphragm with me
0:53:11.760,0:53:17.680
oh I'm going to have the Smoking Gun T
0:53:15.200,0:53:20.040
Hower diaphragm I can I can do
0:53:17.680,0:53:22.440
assortment of house with it I can pup
0:53:20.040,0:53:24.480
distress Caya I've got all that stuff
0:53:22.440,0:53:27.119
covered so there's my cheat I'm running
0:53:24.480,0:53:29.839
a tantrum clothes read for all my stress
0:53:27.119,0:53:32.599
stuff and I've got my two read Smoking
0:53:29.839,0:53:35.520
Gun diaphragm Fox Pro that's my that's
0:53:32.599,0:53:38.559
my Hower that's my Coy vocal
0:53:35.520,0:53:40.680
call well and just truth be told every
0:53:38.559,0:53:42.200
time I blow that 4 K9 pup you can bet
0:53:40.680,0:53:45.520
there's probably a diaphragm in my mouth
0:53:42.200,0:53:47.440
too right right I like the clo I like
0:53:45.520,0:53:50.480
the open read stuff too like the 4K 9
0:53:47.440,0:53:53.680
the 4K n pup but with me um I'm not as
0:53:50.480,0:53:56.480
talented as out I can make most of those
0:53:53.680,0:54:00.319
sounds not going to sound as good uh but
0:53:56.480,0:54:02.480
but one thing uh open recall it tickles
0:54:00.319,0:54:04.920
my lip when it vibrates there I don't
0:54:02.480,0:54:07.079
much like it so I just so I kind of I
0:54:04.920,0:54:09.359
don't run them near as much as I used to
0:54:07.079,0:54:11.640
which I don't run I don't run and like I
0:54:09.359,0:54:14.799
said earlier I'll admit it I need the
0:54:11.640,0:54:17.119
hand call more um like I said most of
0:54:14.799,0:54:19.520
the time it's just with a mouth
0:54:17.119,0:54:21.040
diaphragm um I'll be going to Wyoming
0:54:19.520,0:54:23.040
here in a couple weeks and I'm going to
0:54:21.040,0:54:24.880
make sure got my hand calls with me
0:54:23.040,0:54:25.960
we're going to be calling like crazy out
0:54:24.880,0:54:28.319
there so I'm definitely going to put
0:54:25.960,0:54:31.720
them in the play on that trip more than
0:54:28.319,0:54:35.280
I have been here lately you're going the
0:54:31.720,0:54:39.200
1 of October yeah yeah yep yeah Wyoming
0:54:35.280,0:54:42.720
I'm October 5th I'm going to uh uh
0:54:39.200,0:54:45.720
Alberta Canada on the kai Indian reserve
0:54:42.720,0:54:47.720
nice nice me and John bear and I've been
0:54:45.720,0:54:48.920
told I don't know if we should let this
0:54:47.720,0:54:51.799
out of the bag maybe they're gonna have
0:54:48.920,0:54:53.720
to cut this audio I've been told me and
0:54:51.799,0:54:56.520
you are going to have X 360s to film
0:54:53.720,0:54:58.599
with first week of October hopefully
0:54:56.520,0:55:01.640
hopefully we should we should we should
0:54:58.599,0:55:04.720
have them we we will have them by then
0:55:01.640,0:55:07.079
for sure no I've been told we're we're
0:55:04.720,0:55:08.960
gonna mean you're probably gonna shoot
0:55:07.079,0:55:10.200
the first one because you're going four
0:55:08.960,0:55:13.559
days before
0:55:10.200,0:55:15.920
me to use it so I'll probably let I'll
0:55:13.559,0:55:17.760
probably just say it right now John
0:55:15.920,0:55:19.119
Collins is probably gonna well Mike
0:55:17.760,0:55:21.599
wanted to be the first one to kill with
0:55:19.119,0:55:23.599
an X 360 and he might have done that in
0:55:21.599,0:55:26.799
Oregon when he went with just no they
0:55:23.599,0:55:29.240
didn't they didn't use it I told like if
0:55:26.799,0:55:30.839
I if I was a kill one with it first that
0:55:29.240,0:55:32.680
I'll still let him claim it that we'll
0:55:30.839,0:55:34.400
take a picture and we'll Photoshop him
0:55:32.680,0:55:37.880
into
0:55:34.400,0:55:41.559
it but uh I do know this I am going to
0:55:37.880,0:55:43.240
stack coyotes with an X360 in and but I
0:55:41.559,0:55:45.119
still even though I'm going to have the
0:55:43.240,0:55:48.400
best electronic predator collar that's
0:55:45.119,0:55:50.960
ever going to be made in that I'm still
0:55:48.400,0:55:53.480
going to have that uh hand calls hanging
0:55:50.960,0:55:56.440
around my neck on that lanyard y I am
0:55:53.480,0:55:57.920
yeah it's just it's a simple fact
0:55:56.440,0:55:59.559
so well you got anything you want to
0:55:57.920,0:56:02.079
leave us with Al we've been on here for
0:55:59.559,0:56:04.760
quite a while I just now John it's it's
0:56:02.079,0:56:07.400
a it's a pleasure to uh talk to you you
0:56:04.760,0:56:10.559
do such a good job with the podcast um
0:56:07.400,0:56:12.400
everybody you have on we're so lucky
0:56:10.559,0:56:15.079
that we have the resources the field
0:56:12.400,0:56:17.839
staff the staff members that uh we've
0:56:15.079,0:56:20.119
built and uh the the community around
0:56:17.839,0:56:22.480
Fox Pro the people that are Fox Pro
0:56:20.119,0:56:25.240
users uh at the end of the day it truly
0:56:22.480,0:56:27.039
is uh what we live for it's the Ping
0:56:25.240,0:56:28.400
we're so lucky that we work for a
0:56:27.039,0:56:30.599
company that's made in America by
0:56:28.400,0:56:32.240
hardworking Americans uh anybody who
0:56:30.599,0:56:34.079
says we're assembled let's just tell
0:56:32.240,0:56:35.960
them right now we'll fight them me and
0:56:34.079,0:56:40.559
John ain't very tough but we'll we'll
0:56:35.960,0:56:42.680
fight you anybody that goes to leown
0:56:40.559,0:56:45.079
Pennsylvania and if you can go on earn
0:56:42.680,0:56:47.160
and and you know call ahead get you see
0:56:45.079,0:56:49.240
if you can get you a tour set up you
0:56:47.160,0:56:51.640
will not go through that facility and
0:56:49.240,0:56:55.400
walk out there and look anybody in eye
0:56:51.640,0:56:57.960
and tell them they did not yeah main USA
0:56:55.400,0:57:00.520
products people no everything we could
0:56:57.960,0:57:02.119
Source in the US is all the Plastics we
0:57:00.520,0:57:06.280
used to have made in China now it's made
0:57:02.119,0:57:09.400
in New York and and Iowa um all every
0:57:06.280,0:57:11.400
every board is a is made right there
0:57:09.400,0:57:13.400
made right there right there on the spot
0:57:11.400,0:57:17.000
that that pick and place machine is
0:57:13.400,0:57:18.920
almost running 247 365 they really guys
0:57:17.000,0:57:20.640
will stay there all night and making
0:57:18.920,0:57:22.920
sure those components are getting placed
0:57:20.640,0:57:26.520
on the boards the solder paste is laid
0:57:22.920,0:57:28.000
down ER you can't imagine how many tests
0:57:26.520,0:57:30.119
when when you go through the plant you
0:57:28.000,0:57:33.480
can't imagine how many because it's not
0:57:30.119,0:57:36.559
assembled there it's made there from raw
0:57:33.480,0:57:38.839
materials raw PC boards that while some
0:57:36.559,0:57:41.520
of those boards come from
0:57:38.839,0:57:46.280
overseas the they're made and put
0:57:41.520,0:57:48.319
together right there in the in leown
0:57:46.280,0:57:50.559
Pennsylvania well we appreciate you
0:57:48.319,0:57:52.760
coming on we we appreciate everybody
0:57:50.559,0:57:55.119
listens to this podcast and you guys you
0:57:52.760,0:57:57.160
know keep in we put these out every two
0:57:55.119,0:57:59.760
weeks and we got made us the number one
0:57:57.160,0:58:01.760
Predator podcast out there we're in the
0:57:59.760,0:58:04.280
we're in that outdoor space we we we
0:58:01.760,0:58:06.400
hold our own against some pretty some
0:58:04.280,0:58:08.599
pretty tough uh competition lot of great
0:58:06.400,0:58:09.920
podcast out there yeah and like I said
0:58:08.599,0:58:12.640
appreciate everybody liist and you need
0:58:09.920,0:58:14.720
to tune stay keep coming back cuz uh
0:58:12.640,0:58:17.720
prior next podcast we have Al on we're
0:58:14.720,0:58:19.039
going to have Al go back into his I know
0:58:17.720,0:58:20.599
he's old and he couldn't think of much
0:58:19.039,0:58:23.240
here earlier but we're going to have him
0:58:20.599,0:58:26.160
dive back into his memory banks and
0:58:23.240,0:58:28.680
we'll have him pick out some of his most
0:58:26.160,0:58:31.000
favorite hunting stories favorite coyote
0:58:28.680,0:58:33.599
stands he's ever been on through his
0:58:31.000,0:58:36.440
long career of coyote calling and it
0:58:33.599,0:58:38.520
should be a very very fun podcast no
0:58:36.440,0:58:42.119
we'll go on stand I'll take you on stand
0:58:38.520,0:58:44.000
with Ed Wimberly and and uh Bill CIS and
0:58:42.119,0:58:47.920
and some of these OG legends that I've
0:58:44.000,0:58:50.400
got to hunt with and uh and uh it's just
0:58:47.920,0:58:52.760
going to be a good time I we appreciate
0:58:50.400,0:58:54.039
you coming on buddy no we appreciate
0:58:52.760,0:58:55.359
everybody that comes to our fire and
0:58:54.039,0:58:56.880
listens to what we have to say we
0:58:55.359,0:58:58.599
appreciate you all thank you John
0:58:56.880,0:59:00.680
Collins yes sir we hope everybody
0:58:58.599,0:59:05.160
enjoyed this episode we hope you join us
0:59:00.680,0:59:05.160
again here on the fox Pro podcast