FOXPRO's Jon Collins talks Wolves and Big Game Hunting with Kryptek's Butch Whiting.
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welcome to the fox Pro podcast brought
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to you by Fox Pro game
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calls hello everyone welcome back to the
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fox Pro podcast this is John Collins
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we've got a new guest joining us today
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we have Butch Whiting of cryptech
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outdoor group on the line and we're
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going to be talking about wolves and
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their effect on big game and other
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animals Butch welcome to the fox Pro
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podcast John thanks for having me glad
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to be here yep good to hear from you
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buddy if you don't care Butch uh before
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we Dive Right into this podcast won't
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you give everyone uh a background on
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yourself and
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cryptic okay well I'm butching I'm the
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CEO and founder of cryptic outdoor group
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um so you know cryptic is a uh a brand
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that's probably known more so for its
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camouflage than anything else um we
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initially developed our camouflage
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patterns for the US Military and they've
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been extensively tested by the
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Department of Defense and then
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selectively used by both us and
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Coalition Special Operations forces and
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so our camouflage patterns were designed
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for tier one naked eye acquisition
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defeating that and that has lent itself
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extremely well to the predator hunting
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world and uh of course as you know
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wolves and coyotes and
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and specifically those two but all
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predators have very keen eyesight and so
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our camouflage does extremely well not
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only against uh near peer competitors on
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the on the battlefield but also in a
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hunting environment and specifically in
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predator hunting also so in a nutshell
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that's super
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quick yeah it's a little little little
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bit more to it than that but I tell you
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what Butch I've been you know I've
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personally been wearing cryp tech for
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over I guess it's at least over three
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years now and been extremely impressed
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with it you know I'm a year round
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Predator Hunter which uh most people who
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listen this podcast are and when it
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comes to me if I'm not predator hunting
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which I Almost Do almost 12 months out
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of the year if I'm not doing that I'm
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I'm either turkey hunting or deer
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hunting or going after other some other
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kind of big game so what that means is
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is is I put this stuff through the
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ringer I'm wearing it daily weekly at
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least I mean I've wore it uh I've wore I
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guess an alos suit alos pants and a
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dalbor vest for the last seven days
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straight you know out there make
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grinding making coyote stands and uh and
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hunting tree stand sets for white tail
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in the evening but um yeah it I don't it
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resonates extremely well in the in the
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predator hunting community and cryptic's
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you know proud of that um you know if
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you can defeat uh turkeys Vision number
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one and also water foul um and then you
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get into what I call tier one ulence
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which would be like antalope sheep um
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you know just a big game that have
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extremely good Vision um you know it I
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love some of the stories every year we
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get stories back about this crazy
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experiences that people have in the
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field where they have this incredible
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encounter where you know whatever it was
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um couldn't detect them couldn't see
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them you know they had you know an
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antalope run up to them and five feet
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away and was you know bouncing its head
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back and forth trying to figure out what
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they were and who they were those types
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of things but yeah our camouflage is
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extremely effective that's for sure uh
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we have an enormous amount of of testing
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and credibility behind our camo patterns
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But ultimately you know that's a a real
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nice fancy paint job that goes on our
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gear and that's what's most important is
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how well that gear performs when you're
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in the field and it keeps you out there
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long longer uh when it's cold and and
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it'll keep you cool when it's super hot
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and we've got you know collections for
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any season of the year depending on what
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type of hunting you're doing and where
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you're at so yes that's that's one of
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the things I like about the most
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probably is that you have systems for
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for all seasons and all hunting
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conditions just like you said and I have
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to say I you know I have to say I was a
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little skeptical on the patterns when I
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first seen them because I came from the
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traditional you know sticks and leaves
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stuff but I tell you what just like you
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was talking about like you love hearing
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stories you know a lot a lot of times
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I'm self filming but if I'm not self
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filming I've got you know at least a
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camera person and sometimes a camera
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person and another shooter and a lot of
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times I'm the one always setting the our
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ecall unit or Fox Pro out there in the
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field so one of the first things I do
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when I set that call out I always turn
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around and looked where we're sitting at
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to see if anything is is you know that
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could get us picked off is there is
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there something out of place are we
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skylin are we not blending or whatever
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and every time I turn around I'm
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impressed with what I see and sometimes
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I got to look around and see find where
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we're at so the stuff definitely
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definitely Blends in and I do I will say
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I have uh found
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three of your of the cryptech patterns
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that really stand out to me that I can
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take uh you know pretty much anywhere in
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the world and that is your Highlander
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pattern transitional and Skyfall now
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Skyfall was one of them when I first saw
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it I was like man I don't you know I
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don't know but I tell you what Butch and
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I don't know if you've heard anybody
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else say that but that is a tremendous
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allaround pattern it's actually a tree
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pattern but it's it's a tremendous
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allaround pattern and it is money during
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the winter months here back in the East
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I mean it's a great allaround pattern
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yeah but all three of those patterns you
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mentioned are extremely effective um the
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Skyfall has been surprising there you
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know that the intent there was to break
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your outline up and specifically in a
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tree stand but it's extremely effective
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uh in Sage Brush and in even the High
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Country and honestly there's probably
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been more sheep in the last year and a
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half two years I guess this would be the
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third year uh more sheep killed out west
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in Skyfall than any of our other camo
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patterns and um
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we and it has a it has a very you know a
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striking shelf appe pill as well I mean
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it it's a it's a good-look pattern up
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close right but that's not that's not
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why you that's not why you have it um
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you have it for the effectiveness at
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distance and specifically you know we've
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always hung our hat on uh 300 yards and
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uh the reason why um we are looking for
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you know our cam pattern to work at that
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distance as that's the max effective
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range of a 5.56 round which is the
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military's kind of standards for for
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judging so a lot of those camo patterns
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that you probably grew up with we all
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did that were hunting specific they
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start to blob uh pretty significantly
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even in closer ranges like 340 50 meters
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and you just become a solid blob and and
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a lot of guys don't know that so I
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didn't realize that but skyfall's been a
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been a big game Western surprise so to
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speak uh really was intended more for a
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tree white tail type mentality it works
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extremely extremely well in the Sage
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Brush like next level and the Sage Brush
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but um you know back to you know just
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those stories coming in I had an
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Outfitter um well actually a guide that
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worked for an Outfitter last year at the
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Western H Expo that came to our booth
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and he was telling me a story about how
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he got back to their camp and the
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Outfitter just laid into him and started
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chewing his butt and basically told him
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hey you know the rules you're not
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supposed to leave your clients and he
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was wearing cryptic Highlander and this
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was a western hunt out in Utah and uh
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his clients were wearing whatever but
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the Outfitter was up above him um on a
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higher train feature looking at him
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through the spotting scope and he
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couldn't find his guide and and so he
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said yeah I got my ass chewed for 15
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minutes before I was able to talk and
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tell him and he's like I was there the
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whole time and so you know that type of
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stuff is always nice to to hear those
0:08:38.279,0:08:42.880
types of stories back but yeah all three
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of those patterns that you mentioned um
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the transitional pattern is just money
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for spring and especially spring turkey
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man I think that it's like absolutely
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next level but yeah I mean we kind of
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got down a big rabbit hole you talk
0:08:54.160,0:08:57.560
about cryptic we're probably known for a
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camouflage patterns more than anything
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but our our gear I'll put it up against
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any other brand in the outdoor industry
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and to go along with that the other
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thing I think resonates extremely well
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with the predator hunting Market is that
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we're extremely pro-american Pro
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Constitution Pro Second Amendment and so
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what I have found is that I've never
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found a predator Hunter that was woke I
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don't know about you but uh but most
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Predator Hunters are not woke they're
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not into critical race Theory they're
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not into cancel culture and so that's
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another reason why I think that our
0:09:29.760,0:09:33.680
brand resonates so well in the predator
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hunting
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Community yes I totally agree with you
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and like you said and the stuff just
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flat out works it's tough it it it fits
0:09:41.920,0:09:46.160
good it's uh I don't want to turn this
0:09:44.040,0:09:47.920
into a big infomercial for you guys but
0:09:46.160,0:09:50.279
check out cryp Tech clothing just like I
0:09:47.920,0:09:52.640
said I wear it every week right now I'm
0:09:50.279,0:09:54.480
wearing a transitional it's more of your
0:09:52.640,0:09:55.959
your Greener type pattern but here in
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the East even though the leaves are
0:09:55.959,0:09:59.600
changing we still got a lot of leaves on
0:09:57.800,0:10:01.440
the tree and that transitional was
0:09:59.600,0:10:03.720
absolute money right now and as soon as
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they start to fall to fall I'm going to
0:10:03.720,0:10:08.200
transition right into the Skyfall that
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one of the things there last year Butch
0:10:08.200,0:10:12.600
I you know you had one person from cryp
0:10:11.160,0:10:14.839
Tech told said looks like yall wearing
0:10:12.600,0:10:16.160
Skyfall a lot on the ground here in
0:10:14.839,0:10:17.959
these winter months you know it's a tree
0:10:16.160,0:10:19.959
stand pattern I was like man it it works
0:10:17.959,0:10:22.240
it Blends when the leaves start coming
0:10:19.959,0:10:24.640
off here in the East I guess it's the
0:10:22.240,0:10:28.000
the dark tones in that pattern they just
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blend in so well when you're up against
0:10:28.000,0:10:32.000
brush and up against these Hardwoods we
0:10:30.079,0:10:34.600
have back here it's a great on the
0:10:32.000,0:10:38.120
ground pattern long as a tree standand
0:10:34.600,0:10:40.040
pattern absolutely yeah for sure anyway
0:10:38.120,0:10:42.639
we're here to talk about wolves a little
0:10:40.040,0:10:45.040
bit uh Butch as you know you're in a
0:10:42.639,0:10:47.399
state that has wolves wolf numbers are
0:10:45.040,0:10:50.560
are definitely growing and they're now
0:10:47.399,0:10:53.959
in I think 13 states I think that have
0:10:50.560,0:10:55.839
Wolfpack populations uh Colorado is one
0:10:53.959,0:10:57.639
of the most recent states to introduce
0:10:55.839,0:10:59.440
wolves definitely seems like they're
0:10:57.639,0:11:02.399
working pretty hard to have a permanent
0:10:59.440,0:11:04.760
wolf population which you know don't get
0:11:02.399,0:11:07.880
me started on col Colorado but another
0:11:04.760,0:11:09.279
thing with Colorado um I don't know if
0:11:07.880,0:11:10.639
you're familiar with it but I think we
0:11:09.279,0:11:12.399
talked about it just a few minutes ago
0:11:10.639,0:11:15.279
before we really got into this but uh
0:11:12.399,0:11:17.839
proposition 127 in Colorado it's on the
0:11:15.279,0:11:20.040
ballot next month and what that is guys
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that will prohibit the hunting of
0:11:20.040,0:11:25.200
mountain line bobcat and Lynx in the
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state of Colorado I don't even know that
0:11:25.200,0:11:28.279
they have links and the people who
0:11:26.800,0:11:30.240
probably put this proposition out
0:11:28.279,0:11:32.040
probably don't know either
0:11:30.240,0:11:33.880
probably not are you are you are you
0:11:32.040,0:11:36.839
very familiar with that Butch with with
0:11:33.880,0:11:38.800
this proposition 127 I know of it and I
0:11:36.839,0:11:41.240
know that it'll impact I've got some
0:11:38.800,0:11:42.800
friends that are Outfitters in Colorado
0:11:41.240,0:11:45.320
and I've hunted with them for years and
0:11:42.800,0:11:47.920
a major part of their business model is
0:11:45.320,0:11:50.040
mountain lion hunting um in the winter
0:11:47.920,0:11:51.720
months uh I know it's going to have an
0:11:50.040,0:11:56.079
impact and I also know that it's going
0:11:51.720,0:11:58.320
to greatly impact um big game hunting uh
0:11:56.079,0:12:01.839
if that if that proposition goes through
0:11:58.320,0:12:04.880
obviously uh and you know to your point
0:12:01.839,0:12:06.519
it's probably put together by um
0:12:04.880,0:12:08.600
individuals and sponsored by A
0:12:06.519,0:12:11.320
legislature that does not have a real
0:12:08.600,0:12:14.839
good touch point with uh you know the
0:12:11.320,0:12:16.920
North American uh Wildlife Conservation
0:12:14.839,0:12:18.160
model and and it's probably a right a
0:12:16.920,0:12:21.279
giant mistake that's going to have
0:12:18.160,0:12:24.279
second and third order effects um you
0:12:21.279,0:12:26.519
know there's a lot of a a lot of change
0:12:24.279,0:12:28.040
in Colorado that's for sure it's amazing
0:12:26.519,0:12:29.680
I was actually hunting elk out in
0:12:28.040,0:12:33.399
Colorado here
0:12:29.680,0:12:36.279
a few weeks ago and uh where I was
0:12:33.399,0:12:38.199
hunting um I had some access to some
0:12:36.279,0:12:42.360
land we had some public as well but the
0:12:38.199,0:12:45.000
ranches are all owned by the people that
0:12:42.360,0:12:46.959
are not ranchers uh they're owned by
0:12:45.000,0:12:50.160
very wealthy
0:12:46.959,0:12:53.600
individuals that move there buy a ranch
0:12:50.160,0:12:55.880
um and then hire you know the family or
0:12:53.600,0:12:58.320
families that grew up in that area to
0:12:55.880,0:12:59.680
manage it and take care of it and so on
0:12:58.320,0:13:01.480
and so
0:12:59.680,0:13:02.839
um yeah there's just been a major
0:13:01.480,0:13:05.399
influence I think because of the
0:13:02.839,0:13:07.839
attraction with the ski resorts and it's
0:13:05.399,0:13:11.560
a absolutely wonderful beautiful state
0:13:07.839,0:13:14.440
um oh yeah it is but then you get uh you
0:13:11.560,0:13:16.160
know you get ideas like this where you
0:13:14.440,0:13:18.000
know folks move in and they start to
0:13:16.160,0:13:22.560
have a voice and they really aren't in
0:13:18.000,0:13:25.000
touch with uh with really reality and in
0:13:22.560,0:13:26.720
right in many cases you know I think
0:13:25.000,0:13:29.279
some of those guys don't even hunt that
0:13:26.720,0:13:31.639
own these uh that move in there and buy
0:13:29.279,0:13:35.120
buying these ranches up oh I'm sure I'm
0:13:31.639,0:13:36.959
sure and so um as far as the
0:13:35.120,0:13:38.920
introductions to wolves out there what a
0:13:36.959,0:13:43.160
mistake I mean I've seen what it's
0:13:38.920,0:13:45.639
happened to Idaho and yeah the second
0:13:43.160,0:13:49.279
and third effects of that down the road
0:13:45.639,0:13:51.079
or all you have to do is uh look at a
0:13:49.279,0:13:54.680
you know State like Idaho as a
0:13:51.079,0:13:56.560
comparison and the impact um it's one
0:13:54.680,0:13:58.360
thing when they have a small pack and
0:13:56.560,0:14:00.920
you've got these biologists that go out
0:13:58.360,0:14:03.240
and and wolves all have names and caller
0:14:00.920,0:14:06.639
numbers and oh yeah and they can they
0:14:03.240,0:14:09.279
can track them um but then once uh they
0:14:06.639,0:14:10.880
start to explode in their population
0:14:09.279,0:14:13.160
that's when you start to see the effects
0:14:10.880,0:14:17.199
that you know that we currently have
0:14:13.160,0:14:18.880
here within our state um and so it's
0:14:17.199,0:14:20.680
legal to hunt wolves in Idaho there was
0:14:18.880,0:14:22.639
some legislation passed here a few years
0:14:20.680,0:14:26.959
ago which actually kind of really opened
0:14:22.639,0:14:29.880
up the rules to hunt that wolves were
0:14:26.959,0:14:32.920
night thermal scope hunting is allow
0:14:29.880,0:14:35.519
um even aerial depredation is allowed as
0:14:32.920,0:14:41.120
long as it's on private property and not
0:14:35.519,0:14:43.880
on state um or public land now in Idaho
0:14:41.120,0:14:46.040
and you know the impact out here just as
0:14:43.880,0:14:47.720
a comparison what could happen in
0:14:46.040,0:14:51.560
Colorado or what's happening in other
0:14:47.720,0:14:55.480
states that have blooming blossoming
0:14:51.560,0:14:58.639
huge wolf populations is um you're going
0:14:55.480,0:15:01.800
to see uh you know an impact on on the
0:14:58.639,0:15:05.600
big game for sure and of course you know
0:15:01.800,0:15:07.839
livestock um yes in
0:15:05.600,0:15:08.800
Idaho really the only wolves that get
0:15:07.839,0:15:11.680
any
0:15:08.800,0:15:15.279
attention uh are the ones that are you
0:15:11.680,0:15:17.000
know taking down cattle or sheep or you
0:15:15.279,0:15:20.720
know that type of thing once they start
0:15:17.000,0:15:23.040
to mess with a ranchers uh livestock
0:15:20.720,0:15:29.120
then the government Trappers get called
0:15:23.040,0:15:31.519
in um but what I have noticed and
0:15:29.120,0:15:33.759
there's a lot of firsthand here
0:15:31.519,0:15:37.519
discussion by no stress your imagination
0:15:33.759,0:15:40.240
am I like wolf expert right but I've got
0:15:37.519,0:15:44.600
a lot of friends and a lot of family and
0:15:40.240,0:15:47.680
I talk to a lot of hunters who um have
0:15:44.600,0:15:51.720
had Legacy Family
0:15:47.680,0:15:55.399
type locations that they have hunted for
0:15:51.720,0:15:59.959
decades basically uh that have been
0:15:55.399,0:16:03.160
decimated and they no longer can go hunt
0:15:59.959,0:16:05.959
there because the elk and deer
0:16:03.160,0:16:09.759
populations have been you know driven
0:16:05.959,0:16:11.279
down to a point to where um they they
0:16:09.759,0:16:13.279
they know they no longer have a good
0:16:11.279,0:16:16.199
time they no longer have the experience
0:16:13.279,0:16:18.079
and feel like the opportunity is High um
0:16:16.199,0:16:20.720
to go in and actually successfully kill
0:16:18.079,0:16:23.519
an elk or a deer and when they do go in
0:16:20.720,0:16:26.880
all they hear is wolves howling right
0:16:23.519,0:16:29.720
right and so I've I've had I've had
0:16:26.880,0:16:31.399
firsthand experience uh with that Butch
0:16:29.720,0:16:33.279
and it's actually it's in a different
0:16:31.399,0:16:35.639
it's in a different state it's it's in
0:16:33.279,0:16:38.440
Oregon I used to hunt Eastern Oregon
0:16:35.639,0:16:41.000
quite a bit for Elk Muer black bear
0:16:38.440,0:16:44.279
coyotes what whatever whatever we could
0:16:41.000,0:16:47.880
hunt and one of the things that uh early
0:16:44.279,0:16:49.680
on you know U I can't remember what year
0:16:47.880,0:16:52.480
it happened but eventually there was a
0:16:49.680,0:16:55.600
collared wolf that crossed the Snake
0:16:52.480,0:16:57.920
River from Idaho yeah and it wasn't very
0:16:55.600,0:17:00.360
long that there was an established pack
0:16:57.920,0:17:03.919
right in the area that we
0:17:00.360,0:17:06.880
um and it it totally changed it changed
0:17:03.919,0:17:09.199
everything um not only did the numbers
0:17:06.880,0:17:13.160
drop a little bit far as Wildlife goes
0:17:09.199,0:17:15.559
but uh the way that animals acted in
0:17:13.160,0:17:17.280
that area were totally different like uh
0:17:15.559,0:17:18.679
even though the elk numbers might still
0:17:17.280,0:17:21.600
been strong but if you went in there
0:17:18.679,0:17:24.520
during the rut um there was limited
0:17:21.600,0:17:27.160
bugling uh and really the only thing
0:17:24.520,0:17:29.000
that you could you know put that towards
0:17:27.160,0:17:31.039
put a finger on that is it had to be
0:17:29.000,0:17:32.720
from Wolf pressure you know if they're
0:17:31.039,0:17:34.679
vocalizing the wolves are going to
0:17:32.720,0:17:36.640
pinpoint them and it really changed the
0:17:34.679,0:17:39.679
hunting hunting in that area I've heard
0:17:36.640,0:17:42.760
the same thing from numerous individuals
0:17:39.679,0:17:45.200
that uh that have actually gotten the
0:17:42.760,0:17:47.280
Wolves captured on their trail cameras
0:17:45.200,0:17:49.960
um and they've said that you know the
0:17:47.280,0:17:52.640
elk are just not vocal like they were in
0:17:49.960,0:17:54.840
the past on the flip side of that I have
0:17:52.640,0:17:57.720
a very good friend and Associate that is
0:17:54.840,0:18:00.720
a government Trapper and he spends an
0:17:57.720,0:18:04.600
enormous amount of time chasing wolves
0:18:00.720,0:18:06.440
coyotes mountain lion whatever and uh
0:18:04.600,0:18:08.600
he's you know told me about some
0:18:06.440,0:18:10.880
experiences where he shot some wolves
0:18:08.600,0:18:13.799
and had elk bugling at the same time but
0:18:10.880,0:18:15.679
that's also you know not the same area
0:18:13.799,0:18:17.360
as everybody else you know coming back
0:18:15.679,0:18:20.200
and saying like yeah we've got to go
0:18:17.360,0:18:23.080
find a new spot because the elk are not
0:18:20.200,0:18:24.799
vocal the herd's smaller the the bottom
0:18:23.080,0:18:26.039
line is that that they get you know the
0:18:24.799,0:18:28.960
elk aren't going to stick around if
0:18:26.039,0:18:32.520
they're getting decimated um and
0:18:28.960,0:18:35.039
constantly pursued and uh just this year
0:18:32.520,0:18:39.200
just a few weeks ago a very very very
0:18:35.039,0:18:42.159
good close hunting partner of mine um he
0:18:39.200,0:18:44.480
uh had some wolves that moved into his
0:18:42.159,0:18:47.559
area and you know he was they were
0:18:44.480,0:18:51.159
seeing elk every day and um he had lots
0:18:47.559,0:18:53.760
of elk on his trail camera uh and
0:18:51.159,0:18:55.360
multiple cameras actually and then they
0:18:53.760,0:18:57.360
started to you know pick up the wolves
0:18:55.360,0:18:59.960
on the trail camera and he said there's
0:18:57.360,0:19:03.120
nothing there now and the season's still
0:18:59.960,0:19:05.080
the season's still on so that's and that
0:19:03.120,0:19:08.200
this is a family ranch this isn't even
0:19:05.080,0:19:10.960
like a pack in 12h hour remote super
0:19:08.200,0:19:13.919
crazy off the road yep type spot this is
0:19:10.960,0:19:16.679
just an ABS an AB a family you know kind
0:19:13.919,0:19:19.000
of operation and Ranch that's he seeing
0:19:16.679,0:19:21.000
real time effects like right in the
0:19:19.000,0:19:24.520
middle of hunting season where they
0:19:21.000,0:19:26.360
didn't have a presence and uh and then
0:19:24.520,0:19:28.280
suddenly they do they've confirmed it
0:19:26.360,0:19:29.600
and those those animals aren't going to
0:19:28.280,0:19:32.480
stick around
0:19:29.600,0:19:33.679
when they're there no no so no and
0:19:32.480,0:19:35.360
that's kind of the same thing I was
0:19:33.679,0:19:37.799
talking about to the area that I hunted
0:19:35.360,0:19:39.480
we actually started out off a family
0:19:37.799,0:19:41.120
ranch but then you know there was
0:19:39.480,0:19:43.880
national forest and stuff like that
0:19:41.120,0:19:45.520
around it that you could go uh access to
0:19:43.880,0:19:47.120
to go hunt and it was just totally
0:19:45.520,0:19:49.600
different because the wolves and it
0:19:47.120,0:19:52.799
wasn't just the elk it was the coy we
0:19:49.600,0:19:55.080
coow hunted this area and used to you
0:19:52.799,0:19:58.080
could go in there and if you H you were
0:19:55.080,0:19:59.400
you know these specific draws and and
0:19:58.080,0:20:01.600
stuff like that you were going to have
0:19:59.400,0:20:03.520
coyotes answer you well the coyot
0:20:01.600,0:20:05.400
stopped answering you know you could not
0:20:03.520,0:20:07.559
find a vocal coyot now the coyotes would
0:20:05.400,0:20:09.000
still come the coyotes are still there
0:20:07.559,0:20:10.720
but how they actually approached the
0:20:09.000,0:20:12.640
call was totally different after wolves
0:20:10.720,0:20:14.480
were in the area too they instead of
0:20:12.640,0:20:18.039
just running and rushing in and coming
0:20:14.480,0:20:20.280
straight to the call it was big wide
0:20:18.039,0:20:21.720
circles and they acted timid as they
0:20:20.280,0:20:23.559
were doing it they would want to get up
0:20:21.720,0:20:25.880
on highest points at high points and
0:20:23.559,0:20:27.880
look down to see the sound you could
0:20:25.880,0:20:30.000
tell that they were greatly affected
0:20:27.880,0:20:33.559
themselves by the
0:20:30.000,0:20:36.799
Wolves yeah I there's probably no doubt
0:20:33.559,0:20:39.880
like when you have a you know a tier one
0:20:36.799,0:20:43.480
a predator um you know I don't know how
0:20:39.880,0:20:45.120
many coyotes get eaten by Wolves but
0:20:43.480,0:20:49.640
right well they don't stand a chance I
0:20:45.120,0:20:51.880
get too close no I do know that uh the
0:20:49.640,0:20:54.039
coyotes will eat off a carcass that a
0:20:51.880,0:20:55.960
wolf kills there's lots of myths and
0:20:54.039,0:20:58.320
rumors especially with the ranchers and
0:20:55.960,0:21:01.000
stuff out here but my government Trapper
0:20:58.320,0:21:04.240
friend like absolutely they will if you
0:21:01.000,0:21:07.799
find a a kill that is a wolf kill the
0:21:04.240,0:21:09.960
coyotes will come into it um but uh I'm
0:21:07.799,0:21:12.200
I'm sure that it definitely impacts the
0:21:09.960,0:21:16.480
behavior of not just elk and deer but
0:21:12.200,0:21:19.440
also other Predators as well right well
0:21:16.480,0:21:21.520
have you um have you actually have you
0:21:19.440,0:21:24.520
ever personally encountered wolves while
0:21:21.520,0:21:25.960
out hunting or anything I have I've en
0:21:24.520,0:21:30.200
I've had I've had a handful of
0:21:25.960,0:21:33.520
encounters uh both in Idaho and uh also
0:21:30.200,0:21:35.120
in Alaska I've never actually pulled the
0:21:33.520,0:21:39.159
trigger I've never been fortunate enough
0:21:35.120,0:21:42.799
to uh number one have a a tag in my
0:21:39.159,0:21:46.919
pocket when I had a encounter that could
0:21:42.799,0:21:49.279
have been a wolf kill um or when I have
0:21:46.919,0:21:52.159
had a tag had a meaningful opportunity
0:21:49.279,0:21:53.200
to make it real and get it done so right
0:21:52.159,0:21:56.360
right
0:21:53.200,0:21:58.159
um I I you know when we first started
0:21:56.360,0:22:00.360
cryptic I was up in Alaska for seven
0:21:58.159,0:22:03.960
years and doing a lot of super remote
0:22:00.360,0:22:07.000
hunting up there uh in uh the Alaska
0:22:03.960,0:22:09.600
range and the Brooks range and it seems
0:22:07.000,0:22:12.240
like we had wol wolf encounters like
0:22:09.600,0:22:15.159
pretty much every day and the majority
0:22:12.240,0:22:17.320
of those would be at night um for
0:22:15.159,0:22:19.440
whatever reason like when we were in our
0:22:17.320,0:22:23.880
tent they would come into camp or check
0:22:19.440,0:22:25.799
us out uh Idaho they're a lot more a lot
0:22:23.880,0:22:27.679
more difficult I think the guys that
0:22:25.799,0:22:31.679
consistently kill wolves out here in
0:22:27.679,0:22:35.600
Idaho spend an enormous amount of time
0:22:31.679,0:22:38.440
um trying to do so and right right and
0:22:35.600,0:22:40.960
you know you have access is a lot easier
0:22:38.440,0:22:44.279
here in Idaho there's there's you know
0:22:40.960,0:22:46.919
roads um you can get to anywhere but
0:22:44.279,0:22:49.480
they also it's just like you know a
0:22:46.919,0:22:52.039
coyote that yeah you roll up on it's out
0:22:49.480,0:22:53.520
in a pasture and you stop your truck to
0:22:52.039,0:22:56.320
get your gun out and that son of [ __ ]
0:22:53.520,0:22:59.320
takes off a 100 miles an hour right I
0:22:56.320,0:23:01.880
mean you know it's about how the their
0:22:59.320,0:23:06.720
encounters with humans I think um it
0:23:01.880,0:23:09.080
doesn't take a wolf long to know that uh
0:23:06.720,0:23:10.640
uh it's not a good thing to stick around
0:23:09.080,0:23:14.200
if they're getting shot at that are not
0:23:10.640,0:23:16.799
welcome yeah but um but I have a handful
0:23:14.200,0:23:18.799
of of of good friends that have
0:23:16.799,0:23:20.880
consistently killed wolves but even then
0:23:18.799,0:23:23.600
it's low numbers I mean there's nobody
0:23:20.880,0:23:27.120
that goes out and wax and stacks wolves
0:23:23.600,0:23:29.600
like you know you see coyote Predator h
0:23:27.120,0:23:31.919
no no I don't know like I can count them
0:23:29.600,0:23:34.799
all on one hand out of the people I know
0:23:31.919,0:23:36.840
who've taken Wolves yeah it's Big Al
0:23:34.799,0:23:38.760
Morris is one of them big al kill won
0:23:36.840,0:23:40.559
last year I think he was up in Canada
0:23:38.760,0:23:42.360
when he got his I think I was gonna say
0:23:40.559,0:23:46.559
yeah he was in Canada when you start to
0:23:42.360,0:23:48.480
get the further north uh Canada Alaska
0:23:46.559,0:23:51.640
and you get more remote I think that
0:23:48.480,0:23:53.880
your um ability for them to stick around
0:23:51.640,0:23:56.320
and give you some more time or even
0:23:53.880,0:23:59.440
respond to a call or whatever it is but
0:23:56.320,0:24:03.240
they're getting some pressure uh in in
0:23:59.440,0:24:05.799
in Idaho and um even though they're
0:24:03.240,0:24:08.320
definitely also having a major impact
0:24:05.799,0:24:10.880
and there's some discrepancies and you
0:24:08.320,0:24:14.440
know the fishing game says well Ido has
0:24:10.880,0:24:18.559
X number of wolves now and the way they
0:24:14.440,0:24:21.640
do the count is like just full of uh
0:24:18.559,0:24:23.400
doubt really I mean oh yeah I think
0:24:21.640,0:24:25.120
don't hold it hold me account you can
0:24:23.400,0:24:27.919
fact check this but I think that it was
0:24:25.120,0:24:31.559
something like they kicked out 5,000
0:24:27.919,0:24:35.600
game cameras and these game
0:24:31.559,0:24:37.279
cameras uh were set up in areas that
0:24:35.600,0:24:41.000
could be you know accessible like what
0:24:37.279,0:24:45.840
I'm talking about and and then they used
0:24:41.000,0:24:47.200
AI to filter the pictures and determine
0:24:45.840,0:24:51.039
you know different
0:24:47.200,0:24:53.320
wolves um and so then they came up with
0:24:51.039,0:24:57.000
a number I want to say it's like
0:24:53.320,0:24:59.399
1300 but uh and supposedly that's down
0:24:57.000,0:25:02.039
by a few hundred from a few years ago or
0:24:59.399,0:25:05.640
whatever but when I talk to the subject
0:25:02.039,0:25:08.240
matter experts like my my uh guys and
0:25:05.640,0:25:11.120
friends that are government Trappers
0:25:08.240,0:25:14.000
they they're like man that is like full
0:25:11.120,0:25:17.120
of fallacy it's right there because we
0:25:14.000,0:25:19.240
put cameras up and we actually get to
0:25:17.120,0:25:21.440
see how the Wolves react and those
0:25:19.240,0:25:24.120
wolves are super keen and smart if they
0:25:21.440,0:25:26.520
don't need to smell a camera they don't
0:25:24.120,0:25:28.840
they they'll see it and they'll go off
0:25:26.520,0:25:31.960
the trail and go around and so I just
0:25:28.840,0:25:34.720
don't know how accurate how accurate you
0:25:31.960,0:25:35.960
know the counts are um well that's
0:25:34.720,0:25:38.440
that's something I was actually going to
0:25:35.960,0:25:39.679
ask you you know I wondered how accurate
0:25:38.440,0:25:41.799
because you know I was trying to St you
0:25:39.679,0:25:44.840
know I try to read up on this type of
0:25:41.799,0:25:48.880
stuff quite often and if you if you just
0:25:44.840,0:25:52.640
Google like the effects wolves have on
0:25:48.880,0:25:54.919
livestock or big game or or anything or
0:25:52.640,0:25:58.880
other animals you'll get filled with so
0:25:54.919,0:26:02.120
much fluff from all these crazy
0:25:58.880,0:26:04.720
you know animal rights sites and stuff
0:26:02.120,0:26:06.919
so anyway you know I've wondered how
0:26:04.720,0:26:09.360
accurate the wolf population numbers
0:26:06.919,0:26:10.880
actually are I think what I saw when I
0:26:09.360,0:26:13.120
looked it up to the day I think they
0:26:10.880,0:26:15.279
said the estimate was somewhere between
0:26:13.120,0:26:18.919
you know for Wolf populations in the US
0:26:15.279,0:26:20.760
it was like between 14,000 and 18,000 or
0:26:18.919,0:26:24.200
something like that but I bet it's way
0:26:20.760,0:26:26.039
more than that well across 13 states I
0:26:24.200,0:26:27.919
bet there's probably a you know and
0:26:26.039,0:26:30.039
they're talking about like the 13 states
0:26:27.919,0:26:33.600
that's where I think what U you know
0:26:30.039,0:26:35.640
established packs are in so well here's
0:26:33.600,0:26:39.679
my opinion on it it's nothing more than
0:26:35.640,0:26:42.360
an opinion is I personally think that
0:26:39.679,0:26:45.240
the fishing game at least in Idaho kind
0:26:42.360,0:26:47.080
of tries to walk a tight RPP they try to
0:26:45.240,0:26:50.080
find this balance
0:26:47.080,0:26:52.080
between um The Hunting Community and the
0:26:50.080,0:26:55.159
anti-hunting community and the pro wolf
0:26:52.080,0:26:58.960
community and the anti-wolf community
0:26:55.159,0:27:01.440
and so um How do they walk that tight
0:26:58.960,0:27:04.799
RPP well the first thing they'll do is
0:27:01.440,0:27:08.440
they'll tout success rates on big game
0:27:04.799,0:27:10.279
hunts Okay so we've had so many you know
0:27:08.440,0:27:13.200
elk were killed and so many deer were
0:27:10.279,0:27:16.279
killed so numbers are up and that's good
0:27:13.200,0:27:19.039
but um and they compared this to years
0:27:16.279,0:27:21.919
past like you know 15 years ago or so
0:27:19.039,0:27:24.480
but the thing that they don't take into
0:27:21.919,0:27:27.840
account in that is all the advancements
0:27:24.480,0:27:31.240
that have occurred from 15 years ago and
0:27:27.840,0:27:33.279
hunting alone I mean the example is like
0:27:31.240,0:27:35.880
just in long range shooting for example
0:27:33.279,0:27:37.559
like pretty much you know that's a norm
0:27:35.880,0:27:40.200
now somebody wants to try to take a shot
0:27:37.559,0:27:42.200
at an elk that 700 yards and the
0:27:40.200,0:27:43.919
majority of my friends and Associates
0:27:42.200,0:27:46.679
can do that and do it with high
0:27:43.919,0:27:49.519
confidence 15 considered a pie piece of
0:27:46.679,0:27:52.440
cake now yeah well 15 years ago it
0:27:49.519,0:27:55.760
wasn't right 15 years ago if you were
0:27:52.440,0:27:58.919
shooting past 400 yards that was a big
0:27:55.760,0:28:02.000
deal a long shot so I think there's been
0:27:58.919,0:28:06.480
a major advancement in our our ability
0:28:02.000,0:28:09.080
to deploy our firearms and take good
0:28:06.480,0:28:12.720
ethical you know shots that we're High
0:28:09.080,0:28:14.760
highly confident in um that's a a matter
0:28:12.720,0:28:17.080
of increased Optics of increased
0:28:14.760,0:28:18.640
education built-in rangefinders that
0:28:17.080,0:28:21.399
dial or tell you you're dope that you
0:28:18.640,0:28:23.600
Bluetooth to your phone I mean yeah
0:28:21.399,0:28:25.440
basically I took my son-in-law out last
0:28:23.600,0:28:27.679
year and took him to his first NRL
0:28:25.440,0:28:31.120
Hunter match and we pretty much trained
0:28:27.679,0:28:34.200
for about month going into that and he
0:28:31.120,0:28:36.919
was shooting as good as I was you know
0:28:34.200,0:28:39.720
five years prior to that without all
0:28:36.919,0:28:42.120
that technology and so you can take you
0:28:39.720,0:28:44.360
can take someone that has little to no
0:28:42.120,0:28:46.320
experience and pretty soon they're
0:28:44.360,0:28:48.120
shooting at the same level that a guy
0:28:46.320,0:28:51.080
like you know Chris Kyle was shooting
0:28:48.120,0:28:52.440
out at the top of his his uh his Navy
0:28:51.080,0:28:55.080
sniper
0:28:52.440,0:28:57.240
experience and right and so I think
0:28:55.080,0:29:01.279
that's number one on those success rates
0:28:57.240,0:29:03.799
number two is ility you know 15 years
0:29:01.279,0:29:05.279
ago uh maybe there was four-wheelers
0:29:03.799,0:29:06.960
maybe maybe it's been longer than that
0:29:05.279,0:29:09.519
but I just know that everybody's got
0:29:06.960,0:29:11.720
side by sides now the ability to get
0:29:09.519,0:29:13.679
around is improved so the success rates
0:29:11.720,0:29:16.480
my point is the success rates on the big
0:29:13.679,0:29:19.039
game are are higher are they're going to
0:29:16.480,0:29:21.240
be equivalent or up from 15 years ago
0:29:19.039,0:29:23.760
and you can't really use that as a
0:29:21.240,0:29:25.559
comparison to like oh well the wolf
0:29:23.760,0:29:28.360
population must be in check and it's
0:29:25.559,0:29:30.159
good because our big game numbers are
0:29:28.360,0:29:32.399
will truth be told like in some of these
0:29:30.159,0:29:34.279
areas where they're not monitoring
0:29:32.399,0:29:37.440
specifically in Idaho like the Frank
0:29:34.279,0:29:39.200
Church Wilderness uh the hunting's
0:29:37.440,0:29:40.840
decimated there it's absolutely
0:29:39.200,0:29:43.720
decimated the number of Outfitters in
0:29:40.840,0:29:46.799
those in those areas has gone down to
0:29:43.720,0:29:50.279
null to zero because the wolves are up
0:29:46.799,0:29:53.039
and the game's not there and so right
0:29:50.279,0:29:54.840
ultimately how are those that are giving
0:29:53.039,0:29:56.360
us the numbers kind of like coming up
0:29:54.840,0:29:59.120
with the numbers and why are they coming
0:29:56.360,0:30:00.480
up with the numbers and right right the
0:29:59.120,0:30:01.760
other thing that's happened is why isn't
0:30:00.480,0:30:04.559
the game there it's because it's got
0:30:01.760,0:30:06.799
pushed down or pushed lower or pushed
0:30:04.559,0:30:09.919
into other regions which that may be
0:30:06.799,0:30:13.640
another contributing factor to why the
0:30:09.919,0:30:17.720
the success rates are up so alls I can
0:30:13.640,0:30:20.039
go off of is firsthand experience from
0:30:17.720,0:30:22.679
very close friends very close family
0:30:20.039,0:30:25.880
members people that have had basically
0:30:22.679,0:30:27.720
to Pivot out of um you know areas
0:30:25.880,0:30:31.760
because of the experiences they're
0:30:27.720,0:30:33.559
having now with with being overran with
0:30:31.760,0:30:35.559
wolves and and when I say overrun it's
0:30:33.559,0:30:37.279
not like they're coming into camp and
0:30:35.559,0:30:39.159
trying to get the tent with you it's
0:30:37.279,0:30:41.000
just like your area you know you're
0:30:39.159,0:30:43.480
having encounters you're having whether
0:30:41.000,0:30:48.240
it's a you're you know hearing them at
0:30:43.480,0:30:49.720
night going off um or something along
0:30:48.240,0:30:52.159
those lines and you know you're seeing
0:30:49.720,0:30:54.640
tracks on top of your tracks you're not
0:30:52.159,0:30:57.799
seeing any game you're not hearing any
0:30:54.640,0:30:59.600
game and so on and so forth so yeah I
0:30:57.799,0:31:01.399
mean because you you'll have some people
0:30:59.600,0:31:03.559
will argue with you that wolves do not
0:31:01.399,0:31:06.279
have any kind of direct effect on on
0:31:03.559,0:31:08.960
Wildlife well heck it's their prey they
0:31:06.279,0:31:11.639
eat it and what they don't eat they
0:31:08.960,0:31:14.399
stress they put such a level of stress
0:31:11.639,0:31:16.639
on them that uh U you know makes it
0:31:14.399,0:31:18.000
rough on them as well and it's kind of
0:31:16.639,0:31:20.240
it's kind of crazy some of the stuff
0:31:18.000,0:31:21.559
that you'll read from some of these uh
0:31:20.240,0:31:22.840
these sites it was wild and I was
0:31:21.559,0:31:25.080
looking at to the day just try to get a
0:31:22.840,0:31:26.880
little info to put this together it was
0:31:25.080,0:31:28.519
It was kind of sickening to read some of
0:31:26.880,0:31:30.840
that stuff how they they would kind of
0:31:28.519,0:31:32.600
paint them as you know there with
0:31:30.840,0:31:33.720
rainbows and everything else trying to
0:31:32.600,0:31:36.480
make them sound like they're the best
0:31:33.720,0:31:38.440
things in the world I'm not I'm not
0:31:36.480,0:31:40.120
somebody that's like wants to kill every
0:31:38.440,0:31:42.240
single one of them I think it's cool to
0:31:40.120,0:31:45.799
have a wolf around but not what we have
0:31:42.240,0:31:49.080
now well it's it's such a
0:31:45.799,0:31:52.000
controversial subject matter like if you
0:31:49.080,0:31:55.600
post a picture of a dead
0:31:52.000,0:31:58.120
wolf it's gonna blow up and oh my God
0:31:55.600,0:32:01.080
and it's not going to just blow up with
0:31:58.120,0:32:03.880
uh anti anti-hunters you're gonna have
0:32:01.080,0:32:05.320
hunters too that are gonna be like why
0:32:03.880,0:32:07.799
do you need to kill a wolf and then you
0:32:05.320,0:32:10.639
get on this whole mentality is actually
0:32:07.799,0:32:12.840
there's a whole you know I guess call it
0:32:10.639,0:32:14.960
following when in coming back into
0:32:12.840,0:32:16.279
Predator Hunter hunting in general like
0:32:14.960,0:32:18.360
well are you gonna eat that are you
0:32:16.279,0:32:22.159
gonna eat a coyote are you gonna eat a
0:32:18.360,0:32:26.360
all the time all the time so so it's a
0:32:22.159,0:32:28.639
super controversial um discussion Point
0:32:26.360,0:32:30.799
uh and you can get guys that are
0:32:28.639,0:32:33.559
absolutely pro hunting that are still
0:32:30.799,0:32:35.760
like anti-wolf hunting and then you're
0:32:33.559,0:32:37.720
for sure going to get anti-hunters and I
0:32:35.760,0:32:41.519
think that there's something that's
0:32:37.720,0:32:44.799
appealing about you know wolf being um
0:32:41.519,0:32:46.559
just a an amazing creature and and their
0:32:44.799,0:32:48.600
Community how they hunt in packs and you
0:32:46.559,0:32:51.960
know so on I mean for God's sakes the
0:32:48.600,0:32:54.080
Boy Scouts of America you know uh that
0:32:51.960,0:32:56.399
was a honor badge like getting your wolf
0:32:54.080,0:32:58.760
your wolf badge and stuff I mean it's
0:32:56.399,0:33:00.960
it's a it's a cool animal for sure but
0:32:58.760,0:33:04.039
it's got to be kept in check and I also
0:33:00.960,0:33:06.880
yes sir I I also think that
0:33:04.039,0:33:10.919
um there was a reason why they were
0:33:06.880,0:33:14.200
depredated by our forefathers you know
0:33:10.919,0:33:17.000
and yeah definitely so highly
0:33:14.200,0:33:19.679
controversial uh discussion point and
0:33:17.000,0:33:22.720
again back to how the numbers get put
0:33:19.679,0:33:26.200
together and appeasing both sides you
0:33:22.720,0:33:28.399
know um at the end of the day you know
0:33:26.200,0:33:31.080
the biologist and Idaho fishing games
0:33:28.399,0:33:33.159
here I think have a tight RPP to walk
0:33:31.080,0:33:35.600
and uh it's got it can't be easy it
0:33:33.159,0:33:37.600
can't be difficult or it must be
0:33:35.600,0:33:39.440
difficult can't be easy must be very
0:33:37.600,0:33:42.080
difficult to appease both sides of the
0:33:39.440,0:33:43.559
of the aisle oh I can't imagine and kind
0:33:42.080,0:33:46.000
of going back to what you said there
0:33:43.559,0:33:48.320
like if somebody you know if you post a
0:33:46.000,0:33:50.600
wolf kill picture you get it from all
0:33:48.320,0:33:52.639
sides you know I can take it from an
0:33:50.600,0:33:54.880
anti-h Hunter because I know they're
0:33:52.639,0:33:57.799
against us you know what I mean I I know
0:33:54.880,0:33:59.799
or these wolf hunter or wolf lovers I
0:33:57.799,0:34:02.240
you know I get it from their from their
0:33:59.799,0:34:04.440
point of view what makes me sick but is
0:34:02.240,0:34:07.039
when I see a fellow Hunter down another
0:34:04.440,0:34:08.879
Hunter for taking a wolf well it makes
0:34:07.039,0:34:12.520
no sense at all they got to be educated
0:34:08.879,0:34:15.000
with regards to you know predators in
0:34:12.520,0:34:17.399
general I mean just in general that same
0:34:15.000,0:34:20.560
person is probably not keen on bear
0:34:17.399,0:34:25.000
hunting either and other and other
0:34:20.560,0:34:28.520
things so you know I think that's our
0:34:25.000,0:34:31.320
responsibility is um conserv ation
0:34:28.520,0:34:33.639
hunting is conservation is you know and
0:34:31.320,0:34:35.800
the community of conservation is all of
0:34:33.639,0:34:38.520
us that are a part of it it's not just
0:34:35.800,0:34:40.800
the hunters it's also the biologist it's
0:34:38.520,0:34:42.560
anybody that has a touch Point into it
0:34:40.800,0:34:44.359
the fishing game organizations the other
0:34:42.560,0:34:47.399
government agencies whoever's got a
0:34:44.359,0:34:49.839
touch point in it and opening the lines
0:34:47.399,0:34:52.639
of communication and if somebody is an
0:34:49.839,0:34:55.359
is a hunter or claims to be a hunter
0:34:52.639,0:34:57.040
that they're going to be anti- whatever
0:34:55.359,0:34:59.720
Predator we're going to talk about in
0:34:57.040,0:35:01.920
this case Wes then we have to slow down
0:34:59.720,0:35:03.800
and not get pissed off and like Angry we
0:35:01.920,0:35:05.520
just have to say hey have you having
0:35:03.800,0:35:08.640
your discussion points and your facts in
0:35:05.520,0:35:11.960
order is you know super beneficial and
0:35:08.640,0:35:13.800
helps and that's really you know I agree
0:35:11.960,0:35:16.880
with you there's nothing there's like
0:35:13.800,0:35:18.720
what do you mean like if you I've seen
0:35:16.880,0:35:20.640
it firsthand on our social media we'll
0:35:18.720,0:35:22.320
have somebody that's a cryptic person a
0:35:20.640,0:35:24.880
cryptic fan and they're like why would
0:35:22.320,0:35:26.599
you why would you kill that why would
0:35:24.880,0:35:29.800
you kill a wolf or why would you kill a
0:35:26.599,0:35:33.320
bear and you go and take time to do some
0:35:29.800,0:35:35.160
explanation so yep yeah same we get it
0:35:33.320,0:35:37.119
all time with coyes so I mean we're kind
0:35:35.160,0:35:39.760
of used to it but it's at the same time
0:35:37.119,0:35:41.680
every I we're used to it but at the same
0:35:39.760,0:35:44.040
time it's something I always have
0:35:41.680,0:35:45.599
trouble swallowing I just cannot
0:35:44.040,0:35:47.160
understand it from a fellow Hunter and
0:35:45.599,0:35:49.119
it kind of brings me back got me
0:35:47.160,0:35:51.839
thinking again about Colorado and this
0:35:49.119,0:35:53.160
proposition 127 when we were talking
0:35:51.839,0:35:54.920
about that a few minutes ago there's
0:35:53.160,0:35:57.119
probably guys on here list and probably
0:35:54.920,0:35:59.480
think well I don't care if they ban
0:35:57.119,0:36:02.760
Mountain line in Colorado I could care
0:35:59.480,0:36:05.319
less well there's probably even hunters
0:36:02.760,0:36:07.280
in Colorado that don't care but guess
0:36:05.319,0:36:09.839
what that's just getting their foot in
0:36:07.280,0:36:11.960
the door what's next Banning mule deer
0:36:09.839,0:36:13.599
hunting or you know elk hunting or you
0:36:11.960,0:36:15.560
know that's just a I mean that's just a
0:36:13.599,0:36:16.800
stepping stone for them it won't stop at
0:36:15.560,0:36:20.760
Mountain line and
0:36:16.800,0:36:23.760
bobcats right no it won't once you give
0:36:20.760,0:36:28.280
them a inch to take a mile that's for
0:36:23.760,0:36:30.560
sure yes sir it uh I don't know it's
0:36:28.280,0:36:32.599
crazy times I always hate seeing stuff
0:36:30.560,0:36:34.480
like that being put on the ballot you
0:36:32.599,0:36:37.319
know that that's up next month guys if
0:36:34.480,0:36:41.480
you're from Colorado we encourage you
0:36:37.319,0:36:43.280
vote go vote vote no we we want to we
0:36:41.480,0:36:46.520
want to keep our right to mount line
0:36:43.280,0:36:48.119
hunt Bobcat hunt so absolutely you know
0:36:46.520,0:36:49.520
I'm sure that state is absolutely full
0:36:48.119,0:36:52.200
of and it's just like the conservation
0:36:49.520,0:36:55.319
end of it you know Mountain lines are a
0:36:52.200,0:36:58.160
are a prolific Predator they can take
0:36:55.319,0:37:02.880
down any any game animal and
0:36:58.160,0:37:05.640
they want oh man you know I've seen some
0:37:02.880,0:37:07.680
depredation actually firsthand in Idaho
0:37:05.640,0:37:10.920
that's completely changed the landscape
0:37:07.680,0:37:14.599
with mountain Li specifically in
0:37:10.920,0:37:17.400
2013 um I had some tags that we drew and
0:37:14.599,0:37:19.280
uh extremely remote hard to get to and
0:37:17.400,0:37:22.440
gone out there it's down on the Nevada
0:37:19.280,0:37:24.160
border had scouted it a couple times and
0:37:22.440,0:37:26.200
uh actually was going in to take our
0:37:24.160,0:37:28.000
camp in and the main road to get to the
0:37:26.200,0:37:29.720
top of this mountain was graded out it
0:37:28.000,0:37:32.359
was like a highway and I was like what
0:37:29.720,0:37:34.319
in the world is going on here I get to
0:37:32.359,0:37:35.560
the top of the mountain and there's a
0:37:34.319,0:37:37.079
couple guys standing up there with a
0:37:35.560,0:37:39.640
fuel tank that had actually been
0:37:37.079,0:37:42.839
elevated up in the air so it was gravity
0:37:39.640,0:37:44.359
fed and uh I got out and I'm like hey
0:37:42.839,0:37:49.160
what are you guys doing and they're like
0:37:44.359,0:37:51.880
we're the refuel crew for um the uh uh
0:37:49.160,0:37:54.040
Hilo depredation for mountain lions that
0:37:51.880,0:37:56.920
that the government's doing right now
0:37:54.040,0:37:58.480
and um okay and so I said well if you
0:37:56.920,0:38:01.440
guys had any luck and he said yeah I
0:37:58.480,0:38:03.040
think we're up to about 50 now and I'm
0:38:01.440,0:38:04.440
like well how long how long have you
0:38:03.040,0:38:08.760
guys been out here and there's like this
0:38:04.440,0:38:12.200
is our second day two days oh my gosh
0:38:08.760,0:38:14.640
that's what I said so well that ought to
0:38:12.200,0:38:16.680
tell you something right there yeah
0:38:14.640,0:38:21.040
exactly you got too many of anything
0:38:16.680,0:38:23.680
it's not good right yeah no we were
0:38:21.040,0:38:25.640
hunting a uh elk hunting an area down in
0:38:23.680,0:38:27.040
the southwest down in New Mexico and I
0:38:25.640,0:38:29.800
remember the out we was hunting with an
0:38:27.040,0:38:32.040
outfit I was just a video videographer
0:38:29.800,0:38:33.760
at the time but I remember hearing the
0:38:32.040,0:38:37.000
guys talking about they were they had
0:38:33.760,0:38:39.440
done uh a study on their elk herd and
0:38:37.000,0:38:42.119
what was you know the main Predator that
0:38:39.440,0:38:45.359
was you know praying on the elk in that
0:38:42.119,0:38:47.680
area and I forgot you know I they I know
0:38:45.359,0:38:50.720
they did some aerial stuff and you know
0:38:47.680,0:38:52.440
was going and anyway after all the
0:38:50.720,0:38:54.079
studying you know they asked me said
0:38:52.440,0:38:57.599
what do you think's the number one
0:38:54.079,0:38:59.440
predator on the on the you know elk uh
0:38:57.599,0:39:01.200
calf crop and I was like well it's got
0:38:59.440,0:39:02.599
to be coyotes I see coyotes every day
0:39:01.200,0:39:03.960
out here y'all need to let me coyote
0:39:02.599,0:39:06.880
hunt you know that's all I was thinking
0:39:03.960,0:39:08.839
about it wasn't kyot it was Mountain
0:39:06.880,0:39:11.680
lines I think Mountain lines were number
0:39:08.839,0:39:14.079
one black bears were number two and then
0:39:11.680,0:39:17.640
coyotes were number three in that area
0:39:14.079,0:39:20.119
for the predation on elk Cavs during the
0:39:17.640,0:39:22.000
cing SE season for Elk evidently
0:39:20.119,0:39:24.760
Mountain lines were just shreding them I
0:39:22.000,0:39:27.160
mean just absolutely decimating them oh
0:39:24.760,0:39:31.240
yeah they are they are gnarly when it
0:39:27.160,0:39:32.079
comes to you know how many animals they
0:39:31.240,0:39:35.160
take
0:39:32.079,0:39:37.480
down uh it's a lot for one animal
0:39:35.160,0:39:40.720
they're not hunting packs right I mean
0:39:37.480,0:39:42.960
killing one big game animal a day and
0:39:40.720,0:39:45.640
it's just one you know I mean it's it's
0:39:42.960,0:39:48.040
a pretty incredible really uh and they
0:39:45.640,0:39:50.280
need to be kept in check that's for sure
0:39:48.040,0:39:52.040
um yeah and it and it shocked me that
0:39:50.280,0:39:53.599
black bears were number two and he's
0:39:52.040,0:39:55.839
like just explaining it to me like you
0:39:53.599,0:39:57.720
know hey when the Bears get to moving
0:39:55.839,0:39:59.400
and the Cavs are hitting the ground they
0:39:57.720,0:40:01.599
all eat every out CF that they trip
0:39:59.400,0:40:05.240
across I mean just they don't stand a
0:40:01.599,0:40:08.440
chance that that is uh that is something
0:40:05.240,0:40:12.200
that's for sure um I've seen that
0:40:08.440,0:40:14.880
firsthand and it's yeah bears are
0:40:12.200,0:40:17.760
ruthless when it comes to any CS really
0:40:14.880,0:40:20.640
uh or fawns just absolutely ruthless
0:40:17.760,0:40:22.640
they play a major role if uh they're not
0:40:20.640,0:40:24.560
kept in check with the elk and deer
0:40:22.640,0:40:27.599
populations for
0:40:24.560,0:40:29.920
sure I was going back to the wolves and
0:40:27.599,0:40:31.760
we were talking about you know their
0:40:29.920,0:40:34.079
their numbers their population wondering
0:40:31.760,0:40:36.599
what it actually is and I was trying to
0:40:34.079,0:40:41.079
find out if there was any studies on how
0:40:36.599,0:40:43.440
successful wolves were at uh at hunting
0:40:41.079,0:40:45.280
and of course who knows about this
0:40:43.440,0:40:48.280
information because I'm pretty sure this
0:40:45.280,0:40:51.040
was off one of those you know kind of
0:40:48.280,0:40:52.119
wolf lover anti- Hunter type sites but I
0:40:51.040,0:40:54.520
think you know they was trying to make
0:40:52.119,0:40:58.200
it look like they're not very successful
0:40:54.520,0:41:00.319
like 80% of their their hunts are fail
0:40:58.200,0:41:03.520
or something like that and of course I
0:41:00.319,0:41:05.319
got to thinking and I I know this from
0:41:03.520,0:41:08.319
some friends that I had up in the
0:41:05.319,0:41:10.599
Northwest that that had a cattle ranch
0:41:08.319,0:41:12.400
it's not just what a wolf kills you know
0:41:10.599,0:41:14.680
if a wolf catches something it's dead
0:41:12.400,0:41:17.119
right you mark eting right off but
0:41:14.680,0:41:19.560
talking about say if it's um you know
0:41:17.119,0:41:22.440
only 20% of their hunts are successful
0:41:19.560,0:41:26.280
and 80% are unsuccessful they just think
0:41:22.440,0:41:27.960
that 80% is no effect whatsoever but the
0:41:26.280,0:41:30.040
amount of stress
0:41:27.960,0:41:33.280
that animals in that area get from
0:41:30.040,0:41:36.560
constantly be being hunted by Wolves is
0:41:33.280,0:41:41.560
is is wild what I'm get to about this
0:41:36.560,0:41:45.280
story about about stress from wolves
0:41:41.560,0:41:49.480
um a family that I know had the cattle
0:41:45.280,0:41:52.160
ranch they had um had a huge group of
0:41:49.480,0:41:54.079
heers that they were selling cattle that
0:41:52.160,0:41:56.680
they were selling and had them down in a
0:41:54.079,0:41:58.960
in a like a alphaalpha field just
0:41:56.680,0:42:01.359
waiting to be delivered they had a semi
0:41:58.960,0:42:04.800
coming semis coming to gather them all
0:42:01.359,0:42:07.119
up and they were shipping them out um
0:42:04.800,0:42:08.839
they had actually weighed them they had
0:42:07.119,0:42:10.319
scales there at that ranch they weighed
0:42:08.839,0:42:13.160
them and done had you know we're going
0:42:10.319,0:42:16.440
to pay you x amount of money for per
0:42:13.160,0:42:19.400
pound for each head whatever well the
0:42:16.440,0:42:22.480
the night before the truck showed up to
0:42:19.400,0:42:24.920
deliver these cattle all these haers a
0:42:22.480,0:42:28.319
pack of wolves got into that field with
0:42:24.920,0:42:30.240
them and I think they killed like like
0:42:28.319,0:42:32.559
it was something like three the number
0:42:30.240,0:42:35.280
wasn't huge on what they killed but then
0:42:32.559,0:42:38.040
they maimed like hamstr strong like
0:42:35.280,0:42:39.880
seven or eight more and the St I'm not
0:42:38.040,0:42:42.720
going to mention the state it's just
0:42:39.880,0:42:45.640
Northwest put it that way
0:42:42.720,0:42:47.440
well officials come in they examine what
0:42:45.640,0:42:50.839
went on did an investigation and they
0:42:47.440,0:42:53.079
ended up paying them for the cattle that
0:42:50.839,0:42:56.760
were killed and the ones that were that
0:42:53.079,0:42:59.680
had been tore up but the thing was when
0:42:56.760,0:43:01.680
they delivered these C these cows these
0:42:59.680,0:43:05.640
heers they had lost the ones that
0:43:01.680,0:43:07.000
survived lost tons and tons of weight
0:43:05.640,0:43:09.079
and if anybody knows anything about
0:43:07.000,0:43:11.000
cattle if you go in and stress cattle
0:43:09.079,0:43:12.640
and run them around get them stressed
0:43:11.000,0:43:14.640
get them nervous and they lose a
0:43:12.640,0:43:17.119
tremendous amount of weight so what
0:43:14.640,0:43:19.680
happened is yeah they got paid back for
0:43:17.119,0:43:21.960
what got killed but they didn't get paid
0:43:19.680,0:43:24.280
back for all the weight that these heers
0:43:21.960,0:43:26.400
lost that that went had you know
0:43:24.280,0:43:28.720
directly affected their pocketbook they
0:43:26.400,0:43:30.640
don't get that money back and it happens
0:43:28.720,0:43:33.599
all the time out there it might not
0:43:30.640,0:43:36.160
happen every day and for every calf crop
0:43:33.599,0:43:37.960
but it happens a lot and that can break
0:43:36.160,0:43:40.240
that can break a family that can break
0:43:37.960,0:43:43.079
somebody that's a Rancher or farmer
0:43:40.240,0:43:45.000
right yeah the stress that it puts on
0:43:43.079,0:43:46.800
the game and livestock has got to be
0:43:45.000,0:43:48.160
tremendous and you know to go back to
0:43:46.800,0:43:50.400
your numbers you're saying like well
0:43:48.160,0:43:52.079
they're only successful on 20 or 30% of
0:43:50.400,0:43:55.200
their hunts well they're doing 10 or 15
0:43:52.079,0:43:58.440
hunts a day so they're killing something
0:43:55.200,0:44:00.920
I mean yes yeah so like if they chase 10
0:43:58.440,0:44:02.599
things a day and they only kill two w
0:44:00.920,0:44:06.160
well they're not doing very good job
0:44:02.599,0:44:10.000
really okay so and these things are
0:44:06.160,0:44:12.280
crafty crafty crafty man I've got um an
0:44:10.000,0:44:14.839
associate he's not a government employee
0:44:12.280,0:44:18.079
he works for a ranch uh and his primary
0:44:14.839,0:44:20.839
purpose in life is trapping coyotes and
0:44:18.079,0:44:24.880
deating wolves and he's been pulled in
0:44:20.839,0:44:27.960
on some problem wolves that he had to
0:44:24.880,0:44:29.559
work extremely extremely hard to take
0:44:27.960,0:44:32.520
out these problem wolves and
0:44:29.559,0:44:35.079
specifically the alpha Mel and at one
0:44:32.520,0:44:37.319
point uh he could not get this wolf to
0:44:35.079,0:44:39.359
come in to so he could get a shot always
0:44:37.319,0:44:42.520
knew he was there always knew when he
0:44:39.359,0:44:45.440
was on the ready he ended up taking uh
0:44:42.520,0:44:47.480
dog [ __ ] and a five gallon bucket up to
0:44:45.440,0:44:49.640
where he knew this this wolf kind of the
0:44:47.480,0:44:51.480
boundary that it would come in and he
0:44:49.640,0:44:54.000
basically just came back down the trail
0:44:51.480,0:44:57.160
and plac you know dog [ __ ] every 10 feet
0:44:54.000,0:44:58.559
or 10 yards or whatever and and uh
0:44:57.160,0:44:59.880
that's how he ended up killing the wolf
0:44:58.559,0:45:01.319
but it took him the better part of you
0:44:59.880,0:45:03.040
know a few weeks to try to get it
0:45:01.319,0:45:05.640
figured out they're just extremely
0:45:03.040,0:45:08.640
crafty extremely brilliant really smart
0:45:05.640,0:45:11.280
so you know you're not just going after
0:45:08.640,0:45:15.240
uh or have a predator that you know it's
0:45:11.280,0:45:18.359
got an high IQ basically in ability
0:45:15.240,0:45:21.680
to speaking of figuring them out and and
0:45:18.359,0:45:24.119
getting them killed you and U Mike Dylan
0:45:21.680,0:45:26.680
are planning a thermal wolf hunt this
0:45:24.119,0:45:27.720
winter aren't you later late late in
0:45:26.680,0:45:31.480
what
0:45:27.720,0:45:34.040
2025 yeah late winter 25 Spring I think
0:45:31.480,0:45:39.839
spring 2025 which would be late winner
0:45:34.040,0:45:41.839
for Alaska but um yeah it's uh it's
0:45:39.839,0:45:43.640
gonna be really super interesting so
0:45:41.839,0:45:46.839
we've got Mike and I both have an
0:45:43.640,0:45:49.720
associate an Outfitter in Alaska that um
0:45:46.839,0:45:51.960
has been pushing extremely hard for wolf
0:45:49.720,0:45:54.800
depredation and the ability to hunt
0:45:51.960,0:45:57.960
Wolves at night in Alaska with thermal
0:45:54.800,0:46:01.040
scopes for a while and he's Prim arily
0:45:57.960,0:46:02.640
he he he outfits you know all species
0:46:01.040,0:46:05.400
that are available in Alaska but his
0:46:02.640,0:46:08.040
primary bread and butter are sheep hunts
0:46:05.400,0:46:10.839
and the sheep have just been decimated
0:46:08.040,0:46:12.760
by the wolves and so he's been able to
0:46:10.839,0:46:15.880
actually go in and and get in front of
0:46:12.760,0:46:20.240
the state legislation and so on uh and
0:46:15.880,0:46:22.839
he's got this finally passed and he is a
0:46:20.240,0:46:25.559
uh probably the number one advocate for
0:46:22.839,0:46:29.280
uh nighttime thermal hunting in Alaska
0:46:25.559,0:46:32.280
right now and so uh he's reached out to
0:46:29.280,0:46:34.280
myself and Mike Dylan and and and said
0:46:32.280,0:46:36.160
hey guys please come up I want to get
0:46:34.280,0:46:37.480
the word out on this and I want to make
0:46:36.160,0:46:40.680
this something because we've got to put
0:46:37.480,0:46:43.079
a dent in these wolves and get things
0:46:40.680,0:46:44.760
under control because it's affecting you
0:46:43.079,0:46:47.920
know not only my livelihood but the
0:46:44.760,0:46:50.880
livelihood of uh other Outfitters and
0:46:47.920,0:46:53.839
just Sportsmen in general um and so
0:46:50.880,0:46:56.520
that's the plan right now um I think
0:46:53.839,0:46:58.640
that Mike wants to uh go after some
0:46:56.520,0:47:02.040
other why he's up there he's he's pretty
0:46:58.640,0:47:04.000
keen on a links and um I told him I said
0:47:02.040,0:47:07.000
okay here's the deal if we're if we're
0:47:04.000,0:47:09.319
night hum with thermal you up you're up
0:47:07.000,0:47:12.599
first with for Lynx but if we find a
0:47:09.319,0:47:13.800
Sasquatch or a Bigfoot I get first I get
0:47:12.599,0:47:16.520
first
0:47:13.800,0:47:18.520
shot oh my goodness sound like y'all
0:47:16.520,0:47:19.599
need St sound like y'all need Steve
0:47:18.520,0:47:21.599
dealing up here too I don't know if
0:47:19.599,0:47:23.880
you've been around Steve or not but he's
0:47:21.599,0:47:27.839
a Sasquatch he's a Sasquatch Hunter
0:47:23.880,0:47:31.400
himself so no y might have take him
0:47:27.839,0:47:33.359
with wouldn't that be something um but
0:47:31.400,0:47:37.240
that's the plan right now we talked
0:47:33.359,0:47:40.119
about doing it in Idaho um and that's
0:47:37.240,0:47:41.200
very possible but I think it's also very
0:47:40.119,0:47:43.000
difficult for all the purposes and
0:47:41.200,0:47:45.000
reasons we've been talking about I think
0:47:43.000,0:47:48.160
that your chances of success in Alaska
0:47:45.000,0:47:50.200
are a little bit higher just because um
0:47:48.160,0:47:52.040
there's not you know these animals
0:47:50.200,0:47:54.240
haven't been hunted as much or shot at
0:47:52.040,0:47:56.640
as much is probably a better a better
0:47:54.240,0:47:57.720
statement so right that's the plan right
0:47:56.640,0:48:00.319
now
0:47:57.720,0:48:01.720
hopefully it's a huge success I'm sure
0:48:00.319,0:48:04.000
you guys will have a good time it'd be
0:48:01.720,0:48:06.280
something both of you brought a brought
0:48:04.000,0:48:08.559
a wolf back yeah that'd be great
0:48:06.280,0:48:12.359
wouldn't it I'd love that I think that
0:48:08.559,0:48:15.079
uh that'd be would you would you mount
0:48:12.359,0:48:18.920
it I'd have to give it some thought
0:48:15.079,0:48:21.079
probably um probably not I Know M I know
0:48:18.920,0:48:22.680
Mike would I I probably wouldn't mount
0:48:21.079,0:48:25.800
it but I definitely have the the Pelt
0:48:22.680,0:48:29.680
hanging on the wall um if I were to
0:48:25.800,0:48:31.280
mount it I I look strongly at uh uh
0:48:29.680,0:48:32.920
there's a couple taxidermist that are
0:48:31.280,0:48:34.599
doing this one up in Montana that's
0:48:32.920,0:48:37.119
gotten a lot of tension where they make
0:48:34.599,0:48:40.680
a pillow and it looks like a wolf just
0:48:37.119,0:48:42.319
sleeping on the couch yeah yeah Mike
0:48:40.680,0:48:44.119
actually has one of those it's a it's a
0:48:42.319,0:48:46.359
cow M but man that thing will scare you
0:48:44.119,0:48:48.400
to death you walk in the house it' be
0:48:46.359,0:48:50.880
laid up on a couch or whatever you think
0:48:48.400,0:48:52.680
it's a wolf or a Coy laying there
0:48:50.880,0:48:54.200
because they look good that's that's
0:48:52.680,0:48:56.960
probably what I would do if I were to
0:48:54.200,0:48:59.559
get it mounted that's a clever put that
0:48:56.960,0:49:02.040
in the guest room uh so when Mike comes
0:48:59.559,0:49:05.000
to visit he can sleep with my wolf There
0:49:02.040,0:49:06.599
He Go I'm pretty I'm pretty sure I can
0:49:05.000,0:49:08.559
count I think I can count just everybody
0:49:06.599,0:49:10.520
on one hand that I know who personally
0:49:08.559,0:49:14.359
who's killed a wolf I think Steve Dylan
0:49:10.520,0:49:16.520
has killed a wolf I know Big Al has uh
0:49:14.359,0:49:19.720
longtime Fox Pro staffer one of the
0:49:16.520,0:49:21.920
original staffers Tom Austin he has
0:49:19.720,0:49:23.680
killed maybe a couple wolves I know he's
0:49:21.920,0:49:25.480
called in other wolves for other people
0:49:23.680,0:49:28.359
he's actually called several wolves in
0:49:25.480,0:49:31.160
with a fox Pro and maybe have done has
0:49:28.359,0:49:32.520
done it in Idaho but uh there's three
0:49:31.160,0:49:34.200
right off the top of my head I know I
0:49:32.520,0:49:36.880
could probably think of a h a couple
0:49:34.200,0:49:39.240
more but I'd like to add Mike Dylan and
0:49:36.880,0:49:41.200
but Whiting to the list as well so hope
0:49:39.240,0:49:42.880
I'll get that done this March yeah
0:49:41.200,0:49:45.240
absolutely I'd be like to be on the list
0:49:42.880,0:49:47.760
too I like I said I know quite a few
0:49:45.240,0:49:50.079
guys that have taken a handful but they
0:49:47.760,0:49:52.480
have worked their nuts off to do it and
0:49:50.079,0:49:54.839
put a lot of it's no simple task it's
0:49:52.480,0:49:57.400
definitely not really the easiest way to
0:49:54.839,0:50:00.200
depredate wolves is to trap them and in
0:49:57.400,0:50:01.520
a lot of those hunts um you know if
0:50:00.200,0:50:04.160
you're going to go on a wolf hunt you're
0:50:01.520,0:50:07.880
going to uh shoot it in a
0:50:04.160,0:50:10.079
snare um that's the most effective way
0:50:07.880,0:50:13.079
to actually depredate you know wolves
0:50:10.079,0:50:16.200
but uh just to you know acquire one or
0:50:13.079,0:50:18.520
call one in and shoot them is very very
0:50:16.200,0:50:21.200
challenging for sure very challenging
0:50:18.520,0:50:25.000
that that will be
0:50:21.200,0:50:26.880
epic yeah thank you I hope so too well
0:50:25.000,0:50:28.440
but you uh I know you've got a you've
0:50:26.880,0:50:29.480
got a run you got anything you'd like to
0:50:28.440,0:50:31.640
leave us
0:50:29.480,0:50:35.880
with hey if you guys are listening to
0:50:31.640,0:50:38.960
this podcast I appreciate uh the support
0:50:35.880,0:50:42.160
that the majority of the guys at Foxboro
0:50:38.960,0:50:44.839
have provided to cryptech um God bless
0:50:42.160,0:50:47.040
America May Trump win the election here
0:50:44.839,0:50:50.160
November 5th and put our nation back on
0:50:47.040,0:50:52.760
track and uh take
0:50:50.160,0:50:54.400
care awesome sounds great to me thanks
0:50:52.760,0:50:56.319
for coming on Butch we hope everyone
0:50:54.400,0:51:00.440
enjoyed this episode we hope you join us
0:50:56.319,0:51:00.440
again here on the fox Pro podcast