FOXPROs Jon Collins and MFKs Torry Cook discuss their tactics for this coyote breeding season.
welcome to the fox Pro podcast brought to you by Fox Pro game calls hello everyone we hope you all had a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year's Welcome to our annual coyot breeding season episode of the fox Pro podcast and of course we have Tory cook of mfk game calls joining us how are you doing today Tori other than this little sinus head co I got I guess I can't complain doing pretty good man it's uh I think it must be going around I've kind of got that going on too you'll hear me kind of snuffing I think I started kind of hiccuped right there in the in the intro and that's what that's what that's from and I'm going to go ahead and apologize to everybody you may hear some weird noises going on in the background I've actually um I don't know if you call this recording on location from the from hunt camp or what you call this but I was telling Tor when I caught him I'm actually out in Kansas me and my good friend Jeff Ryder trying to trying to film a few coyes and maybe a bobcat or two but where we're at here zero I mean zero cell phone service and uh I've had to travel down the road there's this little little diner SL Lodge uh that we ate breakfast at and I asked I noticed they had Wi-Fi I Wi-fi seem to be working pretty good so I pulled one of the workers to the side I said is there any way I said I don't want to book a room for the night but is there any way that I can rent a room for an hour or so so I can and have I told him I had a work meeting that time I was recording a podcast I told him it was a work meeting he said yeah sure I'll rent you something so I slipped him 40 bucks cash and right here we are so who knows what might be going on in the background so far it's pretty quiet so might be the best one we ever do who knows hey just so everybody knows this cost us extra 40 bucks to put this podcast on yeah yeah can't beat that well let's get right into it Tori like you said you know annual breeding season episode I I think this will be our third breeding season podcast that we've done and first thing that I want to start out with on this episode is is to get a better idea of when breeding season actually starts you know every year in December we'll start seeing pictures of harvested female coyotes and you know I'll kill a handful of them I know you guys do as well that you'll see them they're they're starting to their Blood spotting you know starting to spot um right what what is going on there when we see that in December early January with the female coyotes and is that the onset of the breeding season I think a good way to describe that is kind of comparing it to something else a lot of people are familiar with and that's the rut of of deer and so what people are seeing in that December January time frame you know a lot of times we'll start seeing those those posts on Facebook pop up like you said people are starting to see Fe fale coats blood spot or have discharge when they kill them and they automatically think that those coats are actually breeding tying up and breeding and you start seeing that start to circulate with the Cure breeding early as that relates to white tail rut basically what the C are in is preut they are not actually breeding yet and that Blood spotting that they're seeing is what's referred to scientifically as proestrus or prestress and the difference between coats and dogs and their reproductive cycle and of course we could go on and on about that but there there's some pretty big differences one being that the coats of course only cycle once a year and that process is a lot longer and more drawn out than it is for a domestic dog so when a female dog comes in heat and breeds that's typically only about a three- week process for her to to come in have that proestrous portion and then actually be in where they're tying up doging a lot of old men would call it and then about a week kind of going out to where they're still spotting and discharging but they're no longer tiing up with a coat that's closer to a two or three month period so a lot longer for dogs and that Blood spotting and discharge starts occurring as she's preparing for estris and her hormones and chemicals in her body are starting to change she will start spotting she'll start discharging as she prepares to come into full estris and actually start tying up so what people are seeing with that especially in December parts of January is that pre-rut proestrous uh activity and then from there you actually get into the tie up portion where the breeding is actually taking place and Across the Nation we've talked about it before and and it holds true year to year the actual breeding portion takes place for the most part during the month of February with about Valentine's Day being a good marker for Peak what you could call Peak rut or Peak breeding for CS of course there's a lot of things at rut Valentine's Day it sure is there there's a lot of babies 10 months later or nine months later whatever you however you want to put it the day of love for sure it's happening everywhere but uh but yeah and then you have that you know you have that month ahead and month behind right the actual breeding portion where people can see they can still see spot and they can still see signs of breeding but typically they're you know on the front side of that is the pre rut and the right back side of that is going to be post very similar to TA deer okay so you do have a preut you do have a peak and you do have a post rut of course um what about like kind of like with deer you know on that pre-rut stage getting closer to rut you know we'll see some Ruddy activity with white tail deer you know you start seeing bucks they're they're they're kind of running you know cruising around and scraping hard and all that type of stuff a little bit of fighting going on and everything is there any kind of different activity in the Couts that that we could see and kind of like that same time frame leading up to uh Pete Crut I guess you could say yeah I think I think that the the preut or the pre estris in CS basically marks pair binding so that's when your CS are really going to pair up those chemical changes start taking place with that female and when she starts spotting when people see C spotting in December January what they can typically take from that rather than thinking the couch are actually breeding if it's at December January time frame they can use that as a sign of bonding taking place pair bonding taking place so you're going to see that pairing activity to where the couch are beginning to interact spend more time with each other the male and the female they're spending more time with each other and it's kind of like that flirting almost dating type stage for and as that progresses as she gets closer to coming into estris you see that Bond tighten up and they get to where they're spending pretty much all their time together and then just as soon as she's ready to take and will stand the breeding will actually take place so the uh the pairing up is what that you know KS pairing and deer scraping and doing their PR that that's kind of how it would correlate from one animal to the to the other as far as what's going on during those pre-rut time frames what would kind of be a rule of thumb you know we talk about breeding sounds and breeding type sequences and stuff when would be a uh good rule of thumb to say when you should start running your dedicated breeding type sequences cuz you know you get around a couple people that's that's flirting and really starting to get into each other they can be pretty jealous you know so I mean is that when when would you say is like your more optimal time to like when would it be would you start playing those type of sounds and sequences you could go as early as J uh December but I like to use January as just kind of the basic you know that that month ahead of peak breeding so basically January is when you know if you start talking about specific breeding sequences to where you're not putting in anything extra you're not adding pray sounds you're not doing anything extra you are specifically running a breeding sequence then I would say January is is probably a good marker for when to start running those dedicated breeding sequences okay well out out of like all the different stages of the KY rut you know your your pre- rut leading up to rut then the peak and then post right after when are you most likely to call cow two breeding type sound and sequences I mean I know you can run them you can run them year round I mean I've used like some breeding fights in the summer and had some of the hardest charging cowch you've ever seen so I know any of those sounds can be used at any given day 365 days you know whatever uh but when is the most optimal time do you think Tori I think anytime during that January February March time frame is pretty good especially the January February time frame but if I were going to pick a a peak top time I would Pro I I tend to favor that beginning stage is kind of what you refer to as the preut and the reason I say that is because I've had multiple people Jamie Terry dating some of them on contest hunts with thermal uh hunting doing a lot of hunting right during the peak of breeding time frame and sometimes what you'll run into with coats if you get into coats that are actually in the process of breeding they're tying up and their mind is on nothing but each other those coats can be a little bit hard to call you know they I've had them tell me these CS are they're out there doing their thing they're tying up they're fighting they're carrying on with each other and just like it's hard to call a sometimes it may be hard to call a turkey that's HED up or a deer that's locked down right yeah those CS that are locked up and tied up they're not in I mean they got all they need going on right there so right I tend to favor that time frame just a little bit before as far as to answer your question I think that would be the the most when you're going to see the most action from the the largest percentage of your coach that are getting ready to breed you know they're anxious they've got it on their mind that pairing process has started and I think those gos both the male and the female are a little easier to call then than they are when they actually get tightly bonded and are actually breeding well you know it's U like that christm we've talked about this before too you know like we said this is our third breeding season uh episode of this podcast and the previous two are exceptional exceptional podcast and I really advise everybody to go back and listen to to the first one and the second one great stuff in both of them and we've actually kind of talked about this before but um what I'm about to say you know I like to start running my breeding stuffff like Christmas week and then like right behind Christmas it's just like almost that's the turn turn of the page that's when I really start focusing in on that stuff and that's when I really start seeing some good call-ins to that and and start seeing stuff that's a little bit different and that progresses all the way through through January as well and what I see a lot of times if I'm calling in a single especially if they're coming to just house if I let out a series of house or two or three series of house and I have a coou show up to them a lot of times it's it's if it's a single it's a female and right another thing I say if you call in a pair usually the lead coyote if you kill that leag coyote and say the other one gets away from you or say if you kill both of them but you know which one was that lead coyote that you shot first or even if you shot it second but you kind of you know locked up in your mind which one was a lead kyot a lot of times that lead one is the female it's like the the males and toe but why why do you think that that is Tory why do you think so many females vers Ms show up to those type of sounds um if it's a single C caught in or they're kind of leading the leading a pair when those type of sounds and stuff are being thrown out there just from raising them and watching them I think it's because of how aggressive those female coats get when they get in heat I mean they they would kill each other and probably I'm wouldn't be surprised if that happens on occasion I've had some of them that uh have done a lot of damage and a lot of the sound sounds some of the best sounds that I've ever recorded are when those coats start coming those female coats start coming into estris and you start getting some of those female fights you know like girl figh and some of those type sounds they just they are extremely aggressive right on another level aggressive when they start coming into heat so I think that that's probably why you get those really aggressive reactions when you're calling them in and that female code is the one that shows or she's the one that shows up first yeah I think that's part of it it's just she is in a an extremely aggressive and a lot of that goes back to just the the Dynamics of Co structure and the way they behave so you have those dominant females that intentionally you know typically they're the ones that breed so they they are intentionally trying to suppress and keep the any other females around whooped down right right so I mean like so like if you're out in their area and you let out a set of house and they see it as a you know contending female in their area they're pretty much coming in there run that female out so to speak yeah yeah because the the I'm not saying it never happens I'm not saying there's not any outliers but for the most part your only coachs that are breeding are your paired coachs so both those males and females are competing for that dominant pair position so that they are the ones that get to participate in breeding and I think you you see some of that on both sides with you know the the top ones of the pecking order are the ones that are going to get to pair up and and breed so and the the pairing you know the female does the choosing on that so that may be another reason yeah she usually chooses that male so she may have multiple males to choose from and you know only the dominant female is the one that's going to pair up in most cases so I think that's why you see that uptick and aggression on female coats well that was something I was actually going to ask you next year and that you know when when breeding season does roll does roll around you know we still got a ton a ton of coyotes out on the landscape that can be called up and out of all those remaining coyotes from all those family groups that you've had you know leading up to this point how many of those coyotes will actually breed during the kyot rut is it mainly just that dominant male and dominant female or will all of them breed or or what's you know what is the deal with that yes so from within a home range if the cows have a home range they not transients you've got coats that are that are established and a lot of times you're gonna have some of those leftover pups and and maybe even some transients that are passing through their home range but within those different ranges territories whatever people want to label it as within those home ranges just the pair that dominant pair or the pair they're the ones that are going to do the the breeding so any other coats that are in that same territory whether they be pups that have stayed on and are allowed to and a lot of times that's when your pup dispersal really takes place where you may have some pups left over that get pushed out because of that PA pairing up and pushing out but regardless of how many CS are left in that area whether they be transients passing through or a pup or two that are left over that have stayed on just that pair is going to breed and so those other CS are simply functioning and surviving within that home range and then of course when you get to the next territory or range you're going to have another pair and the same thing and so that just right that's the that's the typical Dynamic okay so behavior of a cow population so all your subordinate Couts you know it's underneath that dominant male and dominant female in that area they they've just basically just trying to survive they're they're not breeding uh they're they're I guess what you would consider a lot of them are transients right trying to find their home that's when the bulk of your transience that's when that's when you have the highest number of transits because that's when like I mentioned a while ago that's when some of the pup dispersal stuff actually takes place we've talked about family bust up where they kind of get busted up but they stay within the home range and then and the reason we refer to it that as that is because pup dispersal hasn't actually happened in a lot of cases some you know it's a trickle effect with the pup dispersal yeah but when breeding and we've mentioned this on some of the family bust up Podcast when breeding start taking place I think that's when the remaining pups that have stayed on and of course sometimes you have that helper or two that stay around that are allowed to stay but a lot of times that's when your remaining pups that have not yet dispersed that's when they get kicked out pushed outs and then all of a sudden they're no longer part of a family group that's busted up they become a transi and so then you have pretty much you have three types of coats during the breeding season you have your pair of coats that are going to you know produce the litter and have the pups you may have a few coats that stay on with those with that pair that are going to act as helpers that remain in at home range and then everything else is as a transient looking for a place to establish itself at some point and so those cachs are just running around on the landscape trying to find something to eat and stay alive until they find a hole to fill because we've killed you know a cow somewhere else or you know something has happened to create a space for them to take up you know and and have a home range at some point right so like going back to like our breeding sounds and squ sequences those transient type coyotes those subordinate coyotes those ones that are not breeding uh are they susceptible being called in with a breeding sound or breeding sequence I think that some of those Couts are going to come to those type sounds but I think you're probably higher odds on those type gos the transients your odds are probably higher with your prey distresses and stuff like that on those type go I do think some of them are that's a great reason then to always make sure you probably during this time of year breeding season still to incorporate some level of pray distress if you're want to cast that Rod net you know to you know have your biggest chance calling in cows yeah I think you have your I think you kind of have two types of of sequences that you can pick from during that breeding season time frame the one that we usually tell people about which is the one you're talking about kind of a broad net type to where you're targeting because it's winter time so you're targeting coats cats breeding coats transient coats you know just whatever you can get to come to the call and those you know you're trying to hit every trigger there is so pray distress sounds are part of that and then on the other type is let's say you know because you've seen them heard them whatever or maybe you're just somebody that wants to to approach it that way you can run those specific breeding sequences to where all you're running are coat you know Co vocals coat bites you know just coat type sounds right and and trying to Target specifically Target you know paired up goats well you know for me this time of year you know I'm I'm more cast I'm almost running two sequences inside of one um I'm almost always running this time of year a little bit of prey distress right at the front of that sequence and it's just for that reason one is I might have a hungry coyot laid up air close at a rush right in the first couple minutes to a rabbit or a bird or you know whatever whatever I decide to play so I'm always and plus the second part of it is we got our Fox seasons are in in the areas most of the areas that I hunt and plus Bobcats are in I love I love a chance at a big old fuzzy Bobcat so I'm always kind of wanting to throw just a little bit of prey distress out there no matter what when it comes winter time and breeding season time because you know like January and February all those seasons are still in so I'm going to play at least a couple minutes if not two to 6 minutes worth of some kind of prey distress and then what happens if nothing comes to that few minutes of pray distress whatever I decide to run that's when I go into my breeding type sounds you know I go into my house and my other stuff so you know I think it's a smart way to go about it you know if you want to like you said if if somebody's just like man I just want to go Target breeding paars yeah you know just just run all your vocals but I you know me personally I advise you to throw some prey distress in there somewhere and I always throw it right there at the beginning yeah I I typically do the same thing and you've gotta you know we I think we've mentioned this on other podcast before and I I talk to some guys all the time Jimmy white always Pops to mind as somebody that is a real aggressive caller he wants them coats as quick and some of your tournament guys will do this too yeah so that that's why I said you know there are times where you can you know if you're if you're specifically targeting Cs and you want to you're want you're trying to Target those most aggressive CS that are going to come to the call Quick you can do a little bit you know you can change your sequence enough to where you go to those more aggressive breeding sounds and fights and stuff like that and just go kind of right to the I guess your your hardcore portion of some of those breeding sequences bringing them the smoke specifically trying to yeah give it to them right off the bat and so there's you know you have different styles of calling I like the patient you know more yeah try to get as much as I can you might get a bobcat off the front of it might get a c off the front of it and then you might get another C off of those more aggressive sounds once you get to them it just makes your stands longer you may not be able to make as many stands right in in a morning or an afternoon or whatever your time frame is uh for calling but there's not really a wrong way to do it it's just how you want to structure your sequence I think that's a great Point too because you'll see you know especially on social media stuff people get talking about that type of stuff and you know somebody will put you know throw out there how they do it and then somebody get on this is how I do it and I always hear such and so on this podcast or these videos they like to do it do it this way Hey listen you know I've said this before if you're running something in your area at a at a specific time frame and you got Couts coming there's no sense in changing nothing up you ain't got to run something because John Collin says to do this or Tory says to do that or whoever you want to pull out the hat if you're having success and you're happy with what you're doing and it's working stay right there with it and just like Tori was just saying talking about Jimmy white and how he does stuff and how Tory would like to go about making a stand and I could tell you how I like going make a stand all those work go look at Jimmy's page he kills all kinds of Cs and you know it's one of those things there's so many there's so many right ways to call in a cow you know that's we've talked about that before there's multiple right ways to do this you know just because somebody else is doing it might be talking about doing it a different way doesn't mean they're doing it wrong especially if they're calling up coyotes and killing them so just always keep that in mind guys there's there's many right ways to call in a coyot but on the other other side there's many wrong ways about trying to go about it too and usually you know they always end up unsuccessful so we're just trying to share with you guys you know when we start talking about sounds and sequences and how we go about it and and remember this too there's a lot more goes into a ky stand besides just the sound you play and the sequence you try to play we are pretty heavy on that type of stuff because a lot of the stuff is kind of hard to to teach just by talking about it but there's a lot more that goes into a successful stand than just the sound that you play or sounds that you play yeah and one other one other point I think we've touched on this before too and I'm I'm a guy that actually falls into this category if you hadn't been predator hunting over the past few months you've been deer hunting like like I have you've been away from it a little while I think those longer sequences that broad net that we talked about a while ago yep that allows you to figure out some stuff that that allows you to figure out what are cows like you mentioned a while ago certain areas cows are biting on a particular thing it may be a little different from another area it may be prey distress it may be the fights whatever house when you cast that broad net those longer sequences where you're you're running some pre distress you're running the house the fights the breeding sounds you're mixing all of that together you should start calling Cs and you can also maybe develop a pattern of okay well these CS are are triggering on these particular types of sounds whether it be prey distress or bites or whatever and then if you are somebody that doesn't want to run a big long sequence and don't want to sit there 20 or 30 minutes you want more of a 8 to 10 minute stand you can start structuring now you've figured out all these are the sounds and these are the type of sounds that these cows are biting on right now and you can start making your stands that way then when they quit biting and you start having blank stands you can go right back and cast that big net again throw a bunch of sounds out there and see what's going on with the coach so that's another reason if you've been you know if you've been out of the game so to speak for a little while you got a little ring rust it's a good idea to cast that big net right off the bat and that's that's my Approach when I always start up calling again after being laid off you know bow hunting deer right right no great great points great points uh one thing I was want to ask you here Tori going back to uh kind of the structure of the coyotes with you know your dominant male and dominant female doing the main you know doing the breed in and you got the subordinate Co running around what about these going back to the subordinate stuff what about these yearling females out there uh for this this Coy crop can any of those yearling females come in the Heat and if so will they is it possible that some of those yearlings actually breed or no yeah it is possible and at nine months those females or roughly nine months they are an adult C for they they actually mature mature okay so at nine months they're they're good to go but what typically happens and if anybody listen to our myth podcast I think we covered this there most of those uring cods based on studies my own observation with Raisin coats typically it is in their second year before they actually breed even though they are capable of breeding I've had one coat the coat named fancy this past spring that had three pups and this goes back to the koi dog deal too she had two brown ones and one black one but uh she was breed to a normal colored coat but anyway uh she is the only yland coat that I've ever had and they've had the opportunities you know I've even tried to get you know I want to get pups as quick as I can right but most of mine have been all of them except her have been in the second or even later years so it's Poss POS but usually doesn't take place right and part of that goes back to what we were talking about before it's usually your dominant pairs well in most cases a Ying female is not going to be in a position within the pecking order right to pair up and have a litter even though she is capable from a health standpoint age standpoint all that kind of stuff well as I wanted to really cover this good you know we've had a couple questions here on this and that's the deal I was going to ask you this stuff anyway but we've actually had some people send messages into my page into the fox Pro page asking about this stuff specifically we had a gentleman message and asked you know he had heard that only the dominant coyotes will breed like the dominant male and dominant female and he asked me the question I said well you just hold on we're actually covering that in the next podcast so I I've glad you covered that tour and and answered it great um one other thing I think I always feel like we have to qualify some of these answers yeah we're when we answered or when I answer and and you know what we're telling people we're telling people what happens majority of the time what is the typical C Behavior day in and day out yeah every every time I talk about something or write something on Facebook we do these I'll get a message to where from somebody that says well I saw this or I know that that contradicts whatever we were talking about right there are so I want to qualify as usual yes yes there are outliers there are R and outliers to the rule but the norm what normally happens is what we're talking about what goes on the majority of the time so just wanted to to put that out there before I get the next set of private messages saying hey I listen to the podcast and y'all said coat always do this but I you know and so try toid always exceptions to the rule exactly but but for the for the main average coyot population out there what tor's telling is that's how it is I guess it's a good way to put it yeah that's that's what's typically going on yeah all right well we've another thing I want to move on to here is uh you know kind of get talking about some of our you know we talking about sound and sequences a little bit kind of looing into it so you know we've talked about this before uh but um you know I've always the opinion really no matter what time of year it is is one of your most powerful tools on a coyote Hunter Fox Pro in my opinion when it comes to breeding season or summer dinning season coyotes and really any time of the year are coyote house um and really especially when you start talking about breeding season the first type of house that pops into my mind when talking about this time frame is invitation house now let's talk let's let's go over that one more time to do you care to tell everyone what invitation hows actually are yes so there was a lot of confusion to that because people will see female invitation or whatever invitation how on their call or on their remote and they think that one series of of house is an invitation and that's not really how it works after raising coats and having females go into heat an invitation how which typically refers to a female in heat that's inviting a male to you know come hook up with her that she's looking for somebody to pair with somebody to bond with what changes a what would be just a lone female how or just a lone how what changes that from a lone how to an invitation how is the duration of time that the code hows so when you're specifically talking about invitation Hows You have to string those hows together and draw them out because what the female does when she's doing an invitation how is she hows over and over and over again and like we've talked about before some of the series of hows that I've recorded in particular the little bee house that was her in heat Little Bee was in heat she's by herself and she howed most of the night for hours and so she would how and it'd be a series of might be three or four hows then a short little Gap and then she'd start up howling again might be six or seven hows the next sequence short little Gap and when I say a short Gap it could be seconds or it could be a couple minutes but then she's howling again yep and so that's what separates doing a lone on your C from doing a true invitation how on your call so if you pick any any series of hows on your call let's say sexy little bee that is a portion of an invitation how but if you only play that one series of four or five hows that's titled sexy little bee then you you've only done a you've done a longone how is what you've done but if you combine that with the rest of the hows that were recorded with that series like ready little be lonely little be and you string those together one right behind the other with those little short gaps then you're doing a true invitation how and that's the that's the difference so if you're trying to run a breeding sequence and you want to run an invitation series you need to pick hows that you run back to back to back and and string a series and you could actually sit there and do that for as as long as you wanted to like I said she howed for hours that night yeah typically when I'm doing an invitation how I think once you get into that you know where you string anything outside of what would be the way C outs normally how you know you typically hear them do a four five six long hous and they go quiet yep if you sit out there and do that for several minutes you know and you string that into a five or 10 minute deal then I think you have you have successfully done an imitation how right and a good way to do that like those little bee hows there's four of them you could run those four hows back to back to back yeah that would give you an imitation how or you could pick a different coat like bougie bougie homick shabui bougie lonely string those together yep take juice for example you could take juice and string her juicy house juice lonely female string those together and get a through invitation how you could also take one how especially you know you could take any of the hows from Fox Pro any of the mfk house and even if it's only one let's say it says F just taking that sound file and repeating it repeating it yeah and you you would get a a true invitation how and that's what separates alone how or a lonely how or a long how all of them are basically the same thing that's only thing that separates a lone how from a invitation how yeah so so B and you can do that with a with a mouth diaphragm or or anything open read long as you just keep doing it yep that's that the duration is is what makes a difference and like I said before when when little bee hows when she's doing just a regular Lan how at any other time of the year it doesn't sound any different than when she does invitation how while she's in heat except for she just continues to how right right what about all the other house that people have classified over the years Tori such as interrogation house domain house challenge house and you know whatever else is out there are are those terms accurate and which if any of those house should we be paying closer attention to during the Cy breeding season that's stuff that used to drive me nuts when I first got into Howland I think it does most people because they they think it means more than it does uh but after raising coats and hunting Cs and learning a lot about coats I realize that a lot of those terms and titles are Overkill overthinking U and it's not that they're inaccurate but in a lot of ways I I feel like you have about three or four basic types of house you've got your lone house you've got your PA house you've got your group house and uh you've got your challenge house and then a fifth one would be your booger bark and and then you have some subcategories like the invitation house that I feel like fall under your lone house uh but a lot of these other ones like muster house and domain house right right interrogation house and the list just goes on and on and on you know when I was when I first you know I started calling many moons ago and then when I really got interested into it I started like trying to find literature and what you know trying to read on it cuz I got so you know wrapped up in it and there was nobody around me to talk to about it cuz I was the only one that did it and all that but you know I started reading about this stuff like domain how what in the world a domain how how do I do it you know I got to reading all this stuff and like oh that's pretty interesting and the same thing for your interrogation and that I got to sit there thinking like well what's actually the difference between an interrogation H in a domain how and you know if I do one will it run a coyote off and if I did the other one would it come in you know it's just it's kind of kind of confusing so yeah a lot of it was Overkill and after raising coats and and I've titled some stuff interrogation how and stuff like that but for the most that you always need a title and for the most part you've got like I said the lone house pair house group house challenge house and then your booger barking or you know spooked house and then you have non-aggressive and aggressive that you could attach to any of those if you wanted to right and what I learned after raising coats watching them how and the reason that I think so many of those names like interrogation domain all that is a little Overkill is because coats have a specific voice we've t talked about that before each one has a has a very distinct voice and some of them have longer more drawn out smooth sounding how just naturally that's their voice another one will have a rougher coarser shorter how and if you listen to both of those coats how for the exact same reason you you would think that that coat with the rougher shorter how might be doing some type of different how like it would sound more like an interrogation how or what would be termed as an interrogation how because it sounds to our ear as though well that coat's a little more aggressive or a little more worked up and that's that's not what's going on what's actually happening is those coats just have different voices so when the coat with the longer smoother how does a lone how it sounds less to our ear it sounds you know like it's more calm and soothing you know a more inviting type hello you know a Hello type how or hey friend or any of that stuff that you see attached to certain sound titles and then the rougher mouth coat sounds like well maybe it's a little more like who's out there what do you doing you know why are you in my territory the interrogation style definition and the coats do not see it like that what all it is is those gos are doing their version of a lone how and any other Co listening especially when we're running our call it's just a strange Co doing a loan out right that's that's all it is to it and then where your differences come in of course a pair how you've got two coats group how you've got multiple coats and then with your challenge house that is where I I do think you can classify well I know you can you can classify those challenge hows is a different type of how simply because the code is worked up and agitated and you can hear that with the barking and the short you know even though the cows have a different voice they will they will follow a similar pattern when they're doing challenge type PS and you can hear the smooth vo C get more agitated and aggressive and the rough mouth cout just gets even rougher right you know just but and then of course on the booger barking and the Highland that is associated we don't like that right but I think those to keep it simple and this is a good thing for coat Hunters because it simplifies the remote you don't have to worry about well dang this one says interrogation this one says right hello how and well dang I don't want to do an interrogation because that might be a little bit more aggressive right right you can lump them all together as a lone how and you're accomplishing the same thing when you're using those single house versus PA house Etc well let's you mentioned parah house and group house there just a minute ago um what about what about that for the breeding season do you like parah house or group house to to you know put into your breeding style sequence through late December January and February there was a time where I didn't use very many pair house I stuck mostly with Lan house but here in the last few years after I've recorded some Cs and I knew exactly what was going on when when they were pairing up and getting those pair house there's a handful of pair house that I really like like I said here in the last year or two or three that that I've really started using and really like those pair house especially you know once go start pairing up they just okay they seem to work really well right good yeah what about uh what about challenge house anytime you put them in the play during the breeding season I've got some stuffff that rarely do I use what would be classified as a as a true challenge how I do have some sounds that I really like that you could probably put into the challenge category like hot sauce I used hot sauce I used hot sauce this morning you call something well I'd had a back in the I guess this is I guess back in the fall like October when I was still getting in those family groups really well like I would call two or three coyes up kill the first one other on run off I got to where I was play go straight into the hot sauce and I was calling coyotes back out and was picking up doubles and stuff with hot sauce so what happened is this morning we called a Coy up quick first three minutes to uh a rabbit sound well that thing got up there and seen something it didn't like I think it may have seen our truck where it was parked or it saw I ain't going to say I was moving probably saw Jeff moving but anyway I went to hot sauce and I that Coy that Coy run off and I changed the hot sauce and it did it did come back out briefly down towards our it wasn't down wind yet but it was trying to Circle down wind and and if I was just calling and killing I could have killed that Coy and what brought it back out was hot sauce but the time we got the camera on it was ready to shoot it was duck back down into the brush again but we didn't kill that KY but hot sauce worked if we were it did what I wanted it to do that Coy just needed to give us like six more seconds for us to film it kill it but yeah it worked it I love that sound and and it is I mean you know because you use them you could hear you were asking about challeng house you can tell that that is a sound it was recorded hot sauce Fire Sauce those were recorded during the paring process and it's a it's a female coat that's right up in the face of another one and she's cussing him out for all she's worth so it is a challenge type sound just not not a challenge how and so I used to use stuff like rud Challenge and stuff like that but now I tend to go to those type sounds for and they serve the same purpose for the most part as a challenge how wood so yes I use them it's just not what most people would classify as your you know your typical uh challenge out well let's um let's move right along from from the house and let's talk about some other breeding sounds like the breeding chirps wines wimers and that type of stuff you know we've heard female whimper term for for many years uh let's talk about that a little bit and you know you know what what are they and how should coyot cerss be mixing those type of sounds into their coyot St you know we've we've talked before about the fights and how they're you know some people will say well play a Cy fight and we've talked about how they're different types of Co fights that mean different things like your food fights and your picking order fights and your breeding fights y well the same thing holds true for these some of these breeding sounds they have there are different things going on sometimes depending on the sound that those or the chirp swine sampers that those cows are making during that time frame so for example and this is one of my favorite sounds I know people have heard us talk about it before and it's a yearr round sound that Happ happens that it Peaks two times a year breeding season and pup rearing and that's greeting wines yep and greeting wines is a i named that sound two different names at first and I almost wish I had kept the other name it was it was come here wines yep and that's what that greeting wines is it's a come ear sound and the first time I ever seen it uh was hunting in Texas called in a parot hunting with Sterling Justice we were up on a big Bluff Bank called in a pair of cods and that he was wanting to bust one of them immediately and I was holding him off and I'm glad I did because I believe it was the male that was in the lead coming to us and the female had kind of hung up but we could see both CS off that bluff bank they were in a creek bottom below us and that they were both in range to kill but I was trying to milk footage you know oh yeah anyway that male gets up there and the female kind of turns and gets in some thick stuff we ended up not killing either Co and it was my fault for watching all this I'm glad I did yeah I'm glad I did because I got to witness this for the first time and that all of a sudden that female when she turned to leave she made this it has a very distinct pattern anybody that listen to greet and wines will recognize that pattern but just a y and as soon as she started doing that man that mail turned around and followed right with her and they got out of there hey I got a I got a I got a more before you go into this next thing of that I've got a tragic story with that well it's not tragic it's awesome it's tragic for the ks a lot of times it is man we were I was in uh Missouri a few weeks ago with Cory gra and uh King wasn't all that great we had some bad wins and all that stuff but we had a couple Dynamite stamps when we got in the coyotes it was awesome I just think we were just was on KY you know with the win up anyway make this make this story short one particular stand first day in the morning we started off uh playing rabbit had a cow come immediately killed it started changing sounds and ended up having two more cows come in we we end up killing a triple on his St but first cow got it knocked down switched into some fight stuff and here come the second KY out it run right up there and we knocked it down like 15 Steps From the call right change sounds again got to got to call them more and all a sudden here come the third cow out so they just just come you know didn't all come all out at the same time they were staggered just how I love them to come out well anyway that third KY come out and run right to the first cout and sniffed it and then run off run on down in the draw towards the call well it come up on the second C it was just 15 Steps or so from from the fox Pro x24 and I said man he's going to get right on top of it I'm going to let him get right on top of that other Coy I'm going to stack them right up kind of like we did in Texas there a couple years ago well anyway here comes a coow up there to that second Co slay her dead and it stretches its head out and sniffs of it and guess what it it does it does that sound it does that greeting wise just goes and then gets right over top of it and I shot it and hit it just I mean pile them right up they're they're right on top of each other you guys can watch the video we just put it out this past week but there for a second after I heard that sound now don't you all be laughing at me or nothing like that but after i' shot that c like man that was cool and I was like man that's kind of sad cuz I remember you tell me about that sound he was trying to get that other coyote up on his feet to get out of there I guess but too late too late for him too late for both of them as both filed up on top of each other old John done murdered them I guess yes sometimes I don't know exactly what CS are saying or anything like that but I've witnessed that sound and CO's doing it and it's always in a situation similar to that to where they are saying come on come with me come here you know that is what that sound means that I've watched both the males and females make the sound I've watched them call to pups call them out of the hole with that sound and I've watched them call to each other and sorry about that but uh I've watched them call to each other during that pup time frame and then you see another spike in it during breeding and that used to be referred to it was some that misin stuff or partially misinformation is a lot of people used to I think that that is the sound that a lot of people labeled as breeding chirps or breeding whimpers you know if you rewind several years ago there were people trying to reproduce that sound on hand calls and stuff like that they would try to reproduce that pattern and they always labeled it as a female sound that meant she was in heat and that that is not true she does it four she comes into heat but it's it is related to breeding but it's also related to pup rearing and I've seen them do it at any time of the year too when they're communicating with other coats but those are the two peaks and that is getting back to your original question that's one of the the first breeding type sounds that takes place during breeding season pretty heavily that is a come ear you know social type type sound and then going on to further answer your question then you start getting into some of the chirps and whimpers that are more associated with that female either being in heat or very close to in heat and that male is starting to put pressure on her and some of the sounds are just the female a lot of times where she's yeah that's where you get those high pitched chirps and little Yips and stuff like that mixed in and anybody that's ever seen you can relate this to domestic dogs a little bit where you see that female is is not quite ready to take and she's making those sounds and she's she's almost ready she's almost like she's flirting but she's not quite ready to stand right you have that type of sound and going back to what was talking about the fights CS recognize those different types of sounds you know whether it be a food fight or whatever and the same thing happens with these breeding sounds they recognize those different types of sounds so what it does it gives you multiple triggers rather than just playing one type of breeding wine or whimper or something like that and thinking you've covered it all you have options you have the the come ear type sounds like greeting wines that are associated with breeding during that time of the year you have the specific to the female chirps wines whimpers that are showing that she's basically ready she's very close to ready or is ready and the then you have your breeding whimpers chirps and wines that include the male and so you will get or it will show her more agitated where she's putting growls and stuff in there like female breeding growl WS juicy tail those are sounds that are gonna be a little more aggressive where you've got some growling mixed in either the female and the male and then she's also doing the whimpers so you get a couple of sounds there that are signifying that that tie up or very close to tie up time frame and it's good when you're running a sequence to do something from all of those categories you know play play something like uh greet and wines for a couple minutes and then you can move to something like stanky leg or cornered Heidi those are sounds that are going to be just the female it's kind of like you're stacking the the aggression a little bit yep it's just the female she's she's making those chirps lnes and whimpers showing that she's close to ready and then you can progress from that to you know the the combination sounds where you got the growls mixed with the chirps and you also have the male mixed in where he's beginning to harass her that's kind of what it says to the cat is they know that that's a male coat harassing a female coat and it just gives you another trigger you know if greeting wives didn't trigger maybe that male harassing the female and being close to to breeding will trigger one especially if you've got like we talked about earlier one of them aggressive females sitting out there listening to you you play a sound like that where she's the only one supposed to be breeding in that area here she comes and probably him too right what about let's move right into breeding fights what about breeding fights uh I know you've recorded several of them over the last uh few years um how do you implement them in the stands is that something you save to the end or you know and what are some examples of some of the breeding fights that you recorded Tori like when were you use them and what what are they and uh what are the sounds that you have available I think you can I don't think the order of sounds makes a whole lot of difference to the cat but I typically I typically save them towards the end you know I'm G to go through whatever house I'm going to do and then maybe some of that social stuff and and I include those shps and stuff in the social and then I will go into some of those spikes especially if we're talking about a specific breeding sequence or the portion of breeding sequence even if you're casting a big net um and some examples of them are girl fight two those are two hot females that are at it that's a been a really good sound over the years that's one that I will it work any time of the year but I typically save it for that breeding time frame um Humpty bumpty that's a newer sound that had a lot I had a lot of good luck with it playing it good of that last season it was great yeah been several people uh have good luck with it and and what it is where girl fight is two hot females getting after it Humpty bumpty is actually a hardcore breeding fight where you've got coats that are tied up actually in there locked up male and female locked up and then you've got satellite cows they're they're kind of fighting trying to fight off other cows and getting into it with each other very unique sound and it is one of the few sounds that I will play you know a longer period of time because there's so many change UPS in that sound it's a killer yep that's a good one and then uh there's another one there's a series of sounds this is also recorded during the breeding season it's between ma coats and I stack them together they're all one sound that was recorded over several minutes that I busted up kind of based on the aggression of them but there's female face off bad girls and Mean Girls yeah and you can play those as individual sound files if you want like female face off their nose to nose cussing each other out getting ready to uh to fight and then bad girls they're actually fighting yep and then me girls they're just they've kind of busted up for a second then they fight again it's even more aggressive where one of them starting to get the upper hand and you're starting to get more chirps and and you know Co distress mixed in with it so those are some good ones and then a lot of times going back to what we mentioned earlier if I hadn't called a code in then I will typically end with something like hot sauce or Fire Sauce U which is those challenging aggressive type paired up go sounds right right well good stuff Let's uh I want kind of transition into wrapping this up because I'm pretty sure my 40 bucks is probably fixing around out I hope for somebody come in bust in a door say get out here you only to give us $40 but right let's give everybody a idea of a couple a couple sequences what a breeding sequence looks like for this time of year like what you would run Tor and you know I'll go ahead and give uh what I like to do for this time of year myself like I said earlier I like to play some pre distress I I'll usually play at least one pre distress sound whether I pick a bird or a rabbit I like rabbits I do play bird some but usually it's going to be for at least two minutes at least and sometimes if I think it's pretty cadd spot or like that I might run it on up to that six or seven minute Mark and but usually just running one prey distress sometimes I'll run two different prey distresses you know run one for two to three minutes and then another one for two to three four minutes but then I'm going to go right into my hows I'm usually you know kind of like a invitation type how sequence you usually at least throw out three different series of how sometimes four um and and then I'm going to transition right into those breeding type sounds that we were talking about with like say your your uh female breeding grows uh female wimers that type of stuff and only plan them for just a couple three minutes at a time and going right into the next sound and I don't know I firmly believe usually that you've probably if you didn't call nothing to prey distress and then you let out those series of house uh a lot of times you're calling coyotes up to those house a lot of times it's a a bristled up female or a pair with that female in the lead and if they're not coming to get there when you're playing the house or during the house or right after a lot of times they are showing up to those female breeding growls the chirps the female whimpers those type of sounds but firmly believe that a lot of times when they actually do show up to those breeding growls and and stuff like that they probably were actually already on their way to the house you know the house got them on their feet and they were already coming but all those other sounds I'm playing after it are kind of just I guess directing them on in so to speak and if nothing shows up you know I might play I'll usually play at least two of those type you know chirps wines whimpers type sounds at least two sometimes three and then I go right into to the fights I'll usually pick one or two of those female or not female but those breeding type fights and then I'm always you know finishing with a fight challenge or a a pound town or something like that and usually I'm making a little bit longer stand uh this time of year when it's breeding season I'm usually bumping my stand on up there at about the 25 minute mark because I I do see where I do call in some coow later into the stand uh during this time of year yeah M for the most part mirrors yours right off the bat and I probably favor there's a couple Birds I like really well but I don't like this cold I got but anyway right I'll go I'll typically play a bird or two and a rabbit and I'm usually running through those fairly quick two or three minutes each yeah and then just to get right to the since we're talking about breeding stuff I've got a couple of different breeding sequences that I like and part of that comes from what I said earlier about really starting to like some of these PA house so I'll typically do one or two things or or really one or three things I'll do kind of one of those female imitation house where I'm using three or four Lan house yep and then I'll go right into pretty much mirroring the sequence you gave I'll go right into those what I would consider the social breeding sounds so I'm gonna run something like greeting wines for two or three minutes and then I'll follow that with something like stanky leg or cornered hottie for two or three minutes that's going to be that solo female you know in heat or close to heat and then I'll follow that with something a little more aggressive like juicy tail for a couple minutes that's going to you know be your male female you know combination type breeding sound and from there I typically go right to occasionally I will mix a pra distress in you know back in right there but usually not yeah but uh but I'll go to the the breeding fights like girl fight Humpty bumpty you know something along those lines and then I'll end with something really aggressive like hot sauce fire sauce uh fight challenge Pound Town very similar sequence to what you were talking about that's one way that I do it something that I've started doing here the last year or so the the latter half of that sequence stays the same the howling portion of it is the only thing that changes so I will start off with either doing one or two of those lone house and then falling right into some kind of pair how like I really like the fireball big girl happy pair I like sidekick pair a lot yeah so something that I was running last year was like juice Lon female followed by Juicy house and then going right into something like Fireball big girl happy pair yeah and then getting into those social interactions and then the other one the third option for howling is I will start with the pair house or I may do one L how and then I'll go right to something like a pair how like sidekick pair and then this is something that's fairly new to me I started running it last year I recorded a couple sounds during that pairing time frame where those CS were just starting to pair up and they didn't know it was a love hate relationship and I think you and I have talked about this had really good luck off some of these sounds but that LoveHate relationship they hadn't truly paired and bondage yet they were in early stages so I was I was recorded a couple sound what I'm called lovers quarrel one of them Called Love Hurts pair I will play those behind you know one of those pair house and that's where those CS start to paral and end up in a fight you know and but it's a it's more like a how and sequence and then I'll follow that with social sounds and the rest of that sequence is normal but that's a that's a few different options that work really well uh if people want to try some of that hey that's that's excellent stuff and I've got a little tidbit here for that sound lovers Coral uh we mixed that in last summer during Den season and it it it it worked it's yeah so like was talking about for you can run a lot of these sounds any time of the year they're going to work but it just it's a cool sound you guys haven't listen that sound check it out you'll see why we ran it a little bit during the dening season just kind of you know we didn't run a bunch of it you know we just kind of inserted it in there right in front of like a pup distress and stuff it was pretty Dynamite it it worked well most of the time your CS that come to some of those sounds like that I mean when they come they they're committed you know they're locked yeah what well Tor I appreciate you coming on here I actually heard somebody walk down the hall I think he's checking to see if I was here you wanna he might want me to slip him another 20 underneath the door he may hit for a little more hey I got news for him I give him all the cash I had find ATM if he want some more but you may have to you may have to he may want some other paper maybe I can't oblig you I can't oblig you I can't o you TOR Tor you want to leave us with anything before we jump off here oh just always appreciate everybody tuning in and checking our stuff out and using our products that's about it yes sir same here and if you guys are interested in any of the mfk sounds we talked about on here you can find them on the gofoxpro.com website and the mfk game calls.com website hope everyone enjoyed this episode we hope you join us again right here on the fox Pro podcast