Jon Collins and Torry Cook discuss everything March Coyote Calling, and give you a look into the life of a coyote.
welcome to the fox Pro podcast brought to you by Fox Pro game calls here we are with another episode of the fox Pro podcast this is John Collins and I'm joined by mfk Tory cook on this episode we're going to discuss March KY calling how's it going Tori oh pretty good been doing a little little bit of calling here lately and that's been going pretty good so yeah been having some luck yeah I hadn't done a whole lot of calling because I've been doing so much deer hunting and then when we went to Texas that kind of got got me wanting to get out there and get after them a little bit had some new sounds to play with and test and we tested them a little bit and I've been playing with those some and I think I've just been making a couple stands uh you know morning or evening I had been doing dedicated days or anything like that but I think and then me and Dayton went a couple times I think we've uh I don't know how I was trying to think before got on the phone I think I made 17 or 18 stands in the last few days and called up nine coats and a cat awesome one of the coats made two stands this morning one coat and uh and one cat and I pulled around let the dang cat get away oh well that uh that definitely happens I haven't done much calling since our since our Texas trip I've been so busy with everything else we've been doing show season and everything but I did I did get a bobcat just U couple days a ago and or a few days ago now but um it it was kind of just one of those deals I really wasn't planning on Hunting uh just got a hot tip on where a bobcat was at I mean it was just literally seen just you know 30 minutes before I went and caught it and sure enough went there and got set up and didn't take six minutes I think I played played about four minutes maybe five minutes of fox Pro baby Cotton Tail and then switched right into the brand new sound mfk rose bush cotton and within 6 minutes of sucker was right there and was able to shotgun it so I've seen you I've seen your hero shot on Facebook there with that cat I think the the the meat cat yeah the fajita cat M mine should have been a hero cat but I'll tell you how the stand was this morning and and you kind of mentioned something that goes right along with what we're gonna talk about that hot tip and knowing where stuff's at and being able to get close to them especially on the coow side or cats too that's important for March but uh that's that's basically what happened this morning I was out with my three-year-old grandson yesterday afternoon we was in the woods fooling around looking for sheds and stuff like that and Co went to Hing in a ticket that they're in pretty regular I said well and that was late yesterday evening I said well I'll be back in the morning and sure enough I didn't get up real early it was probably 30 minutes or so anyway made the first stand cow how and answered and uh I think I ended up I called up and killed the coat on that very first stand I'm trying to think now I went through two or three houss and then that coat come in on squeaky squeaky oh yeah and run right over the top of the call I shot it it run over the call and I shot it about probably 10 or 12 steps when it turned around and look back but in the process of that that code howed close to me and some more howed probably four 500 yards away and kind of Crossing backwat but I could get across it anyway I got got over to those it's Big Thicket there open hardwood bottom flooded timber and it just had I mean it was set up perfect sat down and I knew I meant to change the batteries in my remote before I left the truck because I knew they was low and I usually keep three in my pocket right long story short I didn't have batteries got the stand started HED one time looked down in the remote and went it was it went black I had lithium batteries in it you know when they go they just go I I think we've been there man I said but you know I got them mfk diaphragms in my pocket so I pulled one out stuck it in I done walked all the way in there I wasn't walking out so I just uh started doing rabbit on the diaphragm and I'd been there long enough I thought something should have showed up so I got up I it's amazing how them things slip up on you because this was open pretty open bottom for what I'm used to calling in that cat had come out of that Thicket and he was probably within 30 yards of the call I never saw him and I picked up my camera stuff picked up my stool headed towards the call and got all the way over to it and I seen the cat caught a Flash and that cat was I guess he just tried to hide that thing took off across that bottom run over to the edge of the thicket but before he went in the thicket he stopped and he his whole body was behind a tree and he had some saplings anyway he was out there probably well he was a little over 80 steps yeah yeah and we knocking some coats Dayton kill I killed one last February a coat at 96 and a half he killed one at 96 the other day I killed one at 77 the other day so I've got a lot of confidence in that TSS you know MX 2os I couldn't see anything with that cat's head I said well I'm gonna try it but those coats were in the bald open right right right anyway long story short I decided to I had a little little too much confidence I guess I I fired one down through there and when I after the shot the cat took off and it was sapling shaking I seen a couple little fall and when you're trying to hit something the size of a soft ball at 80 yards there's a chance you got a hole in your pattern I guess I did because the cat's body was behind a big red oak tree so anyway that kind of aggravated me and that that ended my morning we'll we'll have to do another shotgun episode in the future but that uh that's a great point you know talking about you know people say A you missed with a shotgun 80 yards your pattern should have been all over it but you know when you start talking about that much distance there's two things that do come into play with that the shotguns me and you just talked about this about a month ago um one is those holes in the pattern and you just never know where that animal especially a cat where they're a smaller size animal especially talking about just shooting at their head you never know when that hole is going to be right there where that head is and then the other part is that when you're start talking about that much Range man that TSS stuff drops like crazy out there so you're hold people don't think about this but your hold overs got to be on the money too even when shooting a shotgun and shooting that TSS stuff at that that that type of range yeah and I took that that cat his whole body was behind that red oak tree and there's a big root coming off of it he would you know how a cat will do he was just peeping over that and he was looking like he wanted to leave but I took my time and I was trying to hold over just a little bit but with nothing but his head sticking above that roof that's tough once I got my bead where I couldn't see the cat you know you're guessing it had his whole head you know my Barrel had his head and then some covered up and once I shot I got to look you know where the Sun was shining down through there you could see the little where that TSS had just peppered all those saplings between me and before it got to the cat so I lost a lot of my pattern between where I was at and the I think if the cat had been standing where his whole body was exposed I believe I would have got got him yeah because we've been we've been getting the coats you know at that range so I just think his head he he got lucky and his head fell in a fist siiz spot that didn't have a pet in it and uh he ran away untouched it happens to the best of us Tor it does it does but it ain't it never gets any any uh better don't it definitely don't don't feel no matter no matter what right we'll get we'll get right into uh today's topic you know we're talking about March and uh Tor this is what I consider the late season for kyot Colin you know March RS around there's been been tons of coyotes killed you know they've been killed by us hunters they've been hit on the road they've been shot by deer hunters just whatever else kills them dying of old age or or whatever and the ones that have survived they've probably heard plenty of calling so March can be tough but hopefully we can shed a little bit of light on March coyot calling uh this time frame that maybe help a few Hunters out uh the first thing that I was wanting to talk to you about and uh is is you know breeding season is pretty much finished you know it's it's Road off this is you know first week of March and dinning season will actually be here before we know it you know they don't what is it 60 days till they give birth you know once they're bread uh so tell us what's happening in a Coy's life going on that's going through March you know right in between breeding season and them actually giving birth to the pups yeah and it's that transition time and people have heard us talk about this you know there's always a little bit of overlap with each thing that happens during their life cycle you've got the breeding season that is now it's transitioning into that dening time frame and and my coachs mfk coachs are already starting to do a little digging so y they've got it on their mind so you got some CS that may you know they're you may have some CS that are still in that breeding phase you got other ones that are starting to transition into the dening side of it so there's a lot going on and then I hate March March through April you know that dening the actual dinning yeah digging and in the ground time frame that's probably my least favorite time to call it can be really good if you know where those goats are at but once they start digging all those things you just mentioned while ago were working against you with the coats being killed and reading Seasons tapering off they've got dinon on their mind less coats and then they start the the distance that they will come to the call once they start digging and dening seems to shrink down and so you've got to be your stand setups have to be on point you know you've got to be close and otherwise you may have the Cs listening that just will not come to the call and you start see every every year about this time you start seeing the Facebook post you start getting the messages and the phone calls about you know they get you see it all year long but they get heavier with you know saw coats her coats whatever right couldn't get the Cs to come CS act like they're not paying any attention to me when they get that to this stage you start having some of that and distance and then some of the sounds that trigger them you know a lot of that stuff changes a little right that's definitely right um about March U I've never been a big fan of March coyot Colin I still do a little bit of it uh but you know I'm kind of already thinking about turkeys I had three gobblers strutting in the field behind the house this morning so I'm slipping into turkey mode pretty quick but March is it's just a tough month to KY call um I know a lot of guys that still have a lot of success through March and they can definitely be called and I know you know like I said a lot of guys do have great success but the guys that struggle during March it's it's almost like they don't realize and I'm not saying this is about everybody but sometimes you got to just reinform these guys like hey we are at the point where we have the least amount of coyotes on the landscape that you'll ever be calling throughout the year you know I mean it's there just it's just a time frame when we have the the smallest amount of cows you know they'll give birth Earth here in April next month and then we'll start replenishing what how many coyotes we can call in but we literally don't have as many coyotes as we did before in the in the previous months right and typically another thing it makes it a little bit harder when you talk about you know finding those Couts and knowing where they're at they're usually not as vocal this time of you you know your vocals start tapering off as they start dinting and and getting in the ground with those p your vocals start to really taper off so you know it can make depending on what your C population is and depending on how you're going about locating CS whether you're trying to locate them bying or whether you're locating them by just knowing where they're at it makes that stuff gets harder especially because they're not as vocal and you know you just if you're not close enough you will struggle in March this I think I think proximity and distance to the coachs becomes a bigger Factor during Den season than any other time yeah yeah well I guess right after breeding season their home range I think you've told me before shrinks drastically like they they kind of start honing in on that uh dining area and that's goes right into the next thing I was wanting to talk to you about and you mentioned earlier about killing a coyote here not too long ago that you heard how uh the day before went right back in the following morning and and called a coyote up U so that's telling me that locating coyotes can be effective throughout March uh but I want to ask you if you can get KS to how and give away their their location how long is that information good for in this March time frame like how you know how many days have you got before you need to go back in there and try to kill that Coy I think you have with it being a transition to time frame I think there's some this is kind of a hard question to answer so if if those CS have selected a dim site and they are honed in on that area and you can get them to how then I think it's very effective I think it's just as effective probably even more effective uh than it is once the pups are out of the ground because even then they have a little depending on the age of the pups but you know later summer those pups still have a little bit of of range to them yeah but when they are focused let's say they've got you know you get to where they have dug that Den selected a den site even if they haven't had pups if that's where they're planning on having pups or if they've had pups and they're in the ground then you know that that that point that Den itself is I mean that's 100% yeah so if you if you hear them Howl in a spot where they've selected a den or they are currently dinning then that that area will be good all the way up until those pups come out of the ground possibly all the way through summer depending on whether or not they move the pup raring area you know after they get out of the ground but the flip side to that is if they haven't selected a d site yet and you hear coats how with it being that transition time frame then you still run the risk of okay if you hear cats early in the night and you try to hunt them the next morning they may or may not be there you know if they don't have a den site already selected those cods may be two miles away by morning right so it's uh it's starting to roll over to where you know if you can locate Coats it's starting to become more reliable but you still have some of those where you know I would this time of the year if you're going to go out locating the best way to do it is to get up you know if you're day hunting is to get up you know a couple hours before daylight find those coats and then you know you they don't have much time to move so you can hunt them right at daylight and they'll probably be you know callable from where you heard them at and if they're dining you know they definitely will be right right and of course if you're a nighttime Hunter if you get them to sound off go in there after them right then um so let's talk about say let's talk about like blind calling like you know you don't have Coy okay and you're just going to make coyote stands might be a two-part question I don't know see how it comes out here but uh one question I have is say like your older coyotes that you've had multiple litters of pups out of Tor um will those do those female coyotes do they kind of go back to the same area to den year after year after year and will they use the same Den that Dave dug say three years ago well they continue to use that every you know through the following years yeah I think that if they have a successful D site and nothing changes you know there's no logging there's no habitat change everything is the same I think those coats typically use you know the same a lot of times the same Den or at least the same dening area you know a lot of times them things will dig multiple Den sites and they'll use one and then they might move you know to a different hole um but they're still in that same area yeah but they if you've got a spot where you know cols have DED in the past then that's pretty high odds especially if you're doing Blind calling that's that's probably pretty high odds of of a spot and one other point to make you know I talked about soon as we got on the podcast talked about doing a little Cod hunting lately and there's always the controversy over lo you know where they're not to locate and all that kind of stuff so with the blind calling Dayton and I hunted right on the Texas Oklahoma line yeah and we knew were those we could look at the landscape and we didn't do any locating we had a couple stands that we we located coats by accident and then went moved to them and all that kind of stuff but we didn't go out and and you know intentionally locate gos and the reason we didn't is because the cow population was pretty good and we could see on the map and by riding around we could see where those CS were probably going to be we could see the cover the likely cover areas and stuff like that so we were able to make blind stands and we made Five Blind stands called up six coats right so it was it was very effective blind calling yeah work here around my house I have hundreds of thousands of Acres of Thicket everything is woods and thickets so there's you can't pick where the coat making blind stands is low odds you know you can kill coats but you make a lot of stands to do it so that's where locating you know if you've got areas like that where you really don't know where those coats are going to be because your landscape is everything's the same and you can't pick those cover spots can't pinpoint where where you think the coats will be then locating really helps you um versus doing the blind STS right right so like these areas say you know say you are going to do some blind calling and you're hunting like some of your home turf uh that you've hunted during the dinning and puer in season let's say the Denning season month and you know that there's spots that you've killed Coyotes out of in the past out of you know Den sites you know they've had dens there maybe you've walked up and found dens or or whatever is it safe to say that through March is probably a good time like if if you're wanting to have success calling coyotes to go Circle back around and start making those stands where you have known there's been d s sits in in the past years yep yeah that's that's pretty effective um I've been marking during the summertime for the last oh last several years I've been marking all of my summertime located CS there that were family groups so it's it's dining areas D sites dining areas P ring areas got all that stuff marked and I have I mean you can't even hardly see the map anymore there's so many pens but I've noticed what I figured out after doing that I change the color of the pen with each year so I can look back now that it's been so many years I can look at that map and what I've found is you see those clusters of you know a blue pen a green pen a pink pen a yellow pen you know all of these pins that are stacked up right on top of each other where year after year these Couts are dinting the same either the exact same spot or very close proximity to the same spot and so you could you could take the map and go make blind stands where those clusters of pins just based off past history you know a lot like people do with deer you know how past history with deer works pretty good as far as knowing where they're going to be at a certain time frame they may not be there all all fall but come rut that deer comes you know a lot of times they come back to the same place and in the summer they'll be in the same place those CS will do the same thing to where you may have a spot where if you went in there and made a blind stand say in the fall of the year you may not call up a c right but you come back this time of the year Den pu ring time frame you can go in there and make a blind stand just based off past history yep yep and good chance those CS are gonna be D and in there again that year excellent excellent that's uh that's good stuff that's what that's the reason I asked that question I've I've done that in the past March you know March months in the past years and I found success doing that and I'll probably actually U I'll be hunting with Kyle crickenberger here in just a couple days we're actually going uh down to Florida uh we're going to be hunting uh with our friend Jacob Mayfield and you know that's kind of one of those deals we're going to be hunting these hammocks if anybody knows what hammocks are what they call hammocks down in in Florida hopefully we're going to be hitting those those past D sites hopefully there's coyotes in there starting to dig and they should be you know it's pretty pretty far south not that that really matters but I'm hoping that we get in the coyotes that's kind of got that that on their mind and that goes right into my next question is and I want you to to tell me what I what sounds I need to be running so if I'm not calling coyotes up here in a few days me and Kyle we're gonna blame it on Tory cook so so so kind of tell us what uh first thing before we get right into the talking about sequences and stuff one thing that I have noticed over the past week or so is I still see a lot of guys are still calling coyotes to to pray to stress sounds you know we just had a past podcast about uh uh the new sound squeaky squeaky that we had a lot of luck with and I've see been seeing people turn the coyotes up with it and see some guys talking about some bird stuff rabbit stuff and and and so on how much longer can we expect the prey distress sounds to be effective going through March and when should we you think we should we'll see it kind of die off I think it's you know again we're in that transition time frame to where and talking about the coats that I've called up here the last several times I've been out they've been kind of a mix but it is time and a couple of the last coats that I called up I started and I did this because of a couple phone calls that I got from customers uh I've started putting that pup stuff that little little pup stuff in there and I think I mean your pray sounds can still be effective just because of that I mean everything can be effective right now it's still kind of that broad net we talked about because during that transition time frame you don't know for sure what the coats what part of that transition they're in when you sat down you may be calling the coats that are still kind of on the tail end of that that breeding you know they've got that mind frame or mindset and then you've got other ones that are already digging and they're in the den and and every day that passes from here on you're gonna have more of those coats that are you know have beened on their mind right and even though they don't have pups yet it's just like we've talked about before the fawn's hit there's an instinct there where those coats know what they know what's coming it's just an instinctual deal and you've got that heavy breed female especially that's already got that instinctual parental trigger built in so your even though your pup sounds work year round they start becoming more effective at this time of the year so I think you're G to start seeing your pray sounds they're on the downhill slide right now and your pup stuff is is your vocals and your pup stuff especially your your little pup sounds and I think the window for you've you've probably noticed this you can tell me I think your little pup sounds like your your birthday pups your got milk type sounds your your hungry pups are not necessarily pup distress yeah but they're hungry pups in the hole you know eyes still closed that age class of pups there seems like there's a short window that those work pretty good and that's right now you know like that that March time frame then after that it seems like those little pup sounds those hungry pups and stuff they don't seem to work as well it seems like you're you're older age class pup stuff in general and especially like calling year round seems like your older age class pups do better but right now those hungry pup sounds you know eyes closed birthday pup got milk type sounds yeah really start working and falling back to the customers calling me and I called in two CS off of Gat milk I've uh this past week two of the Cs came on got milk and I'd already played several pray sounds went into some house and instead of going to uh like greeting wines or sub Missy begar which is what I've been playing I mixed got milk in there yep that just that hungry pup it's a newborn hungry p and I had a couple customers call me and told me they were having good luck with it and I said I know why you know it's that time sure enough I I played I've played that sound twice and I called up coachs both times I played it right and uh so it's I think it's time to start adding more pup sounds in still play the prey distress you know play one or two to catch those gos that are transitioning but start adding more of those pup sounds in I mean it's starting to swing that direction for sure so so pretty much with the pray distress stuff let the coyes dictate that if you if you start noticing that your pray distress sounds are really starting to SL back off that you just see you start seeing less and less and less response to it you might as well cut it out and just go straight into your coyote vocals and it's kind of funny he talking about the the small puppy stuff I just got off the phone uh yesterday with Kyle uh fixing the leave out you know and and Kyle's like just just bring your call and I said all right you know no problem I'll have it packed and I just asked him I said you know do you think there's any musthave sounds I need to make sure is is on this unit which I pretty much got all soundss on there anyway but just making sure I need didn't need to add anything and we got to talking and that's exactly what we said you know make sure we got some small puppy stuff cuz uh we might start seeing some pretty good reactions to the small puppy sounds you know we've talked about playing Fox Pro K9 puppies 2 which is just a fresh litter of pups we talked about got milk broke pups and sounds like that so that's pretty much what we're now time will tell we'll see if me and Kyle have any luck but that's kind of what our game game plan is is start running like a dinning season type sequence and playing plenty of small puppy stuff well to to drive at home and just kind of give people a picture of a coat's mindset so I get to play with these coats all the time we' talk about it before once that female starts digging when she starts putting her feet in the ground way before she's had pups I you can play those little puppy sounds those newborn stuff and watch the reaction to her it makes her nervous I mean you can tell that that that there's a switch has been flipped just instinction within those female cows especially but the male is coming you know and any hel they're all getting that that instinctual switch flipped this time of the year just the same thing that triggers turkeys to start gobbling and strutting and every other animal to trigger at different times of the year it's instinctual and that is happening with the coat so if you've got you know if you're sitting out there and and you set your stand up and you've got uh a pair of coats that have already started digging a den they're let's say they're in the digging preparing stage or maybe they've already had pups depending on how far along we are but the odds of you tripping that Co trigger with little pup sounds and vocals Co stuffff is way higher than it is pray now I'm not saying they wouldn't run in there some of them wouldn't run in there but there's a lot of them that will ignore a pra distress sound once they get in that Denon you know digging yeah mindset that's uh what and speaking of that and we was talking about you know sometimes coyotes aren't as vocal throughout March wonder why that is do you have any kind of inclination what causes the kyos to be less vocal and uh which I know you've said in the past that that you can still get them to how a lot of times but the proximity really comes into play you have to be about right on top of them to get them to how wonder why that is I I think that it's because they are so territorial and so nonsocial outside of their you know that paired up set of Cs and so I think when they do how you're usually pretty close to them you're usually somewhere where they don't want you to be and they're way more apt to how you know so I think that a lot of times the reason they don't how is because if if you're at a far enough distance away from them that you're out of whatever you know they're wherever is going to make them aggressive territorial wise I think they are content to just listen and maybe not give up their location I don't know exactly what they're thinking but they don't seem to be as agitated by a distant High to where they vocalize and they're not breeding so I think there's multiple factors with you know coats pairing up you know they get really vocal during pairing time frame they get really vocal during P rearing time frame when they're social you know those are the two most social times those are when your houss are at their Peak but when they start having those pups everything is you know just concentrated and it's almost like they go into a private type you know mindset but if you get close another thing that I know you've noticed it I noticed it especially with the coats I rais but I also notice it you know when I hear coats when you get them to how this time of the year you usually don't get a whole lot of the Lan how you know long drawn out house a lot of times you'll get those more aggressive chall yeah you can tell the cows are really worked up and that's a little bit different f it still gives them away I mean and you know when they're when they vocalize like that especially if it's a pair of them if you hear a pair of coats that are aggressively answering you like that then pretty high odds you know that's a dening area it's also pretty high odds that that spot will be reliable to go back and call those coats even if it's the next day or several days later right they they're kind of given that spot Away by the aggression in their house right y that's that's that's good stuff right there and one thing it made me think about when you were talking about they're just less social when do like these made it up pairs of coyes That's Heavy bread and you know this March time frame when is it do they accept back in like a helper cout that they let a third or even a fourth coyote kind of join back in with them well some of them I you see it on people's trail cameras I think there's still a lot of stuff that's vague and not doesn't necessarily follow the the rules on Co some I see it some you see it on trail cameras you know where for whatever reason there's there's four CS together yeah and you can you see two of them you know I saw one other day is four cats and two of them tied up so you know it's a breeding pair there yeah yeah so there's some kind will just let them will tolerate them year round well I've been following I think I told you before and we'll save that for you know the details for another podcast but I was following that uh and course they're paired up now it's little be and Hood them are paired up but there's a third male that is always on the outskirts now he gets he gets pushed away if he gets too close at hulum to run over little Heathen is the other male he's been tailing along and staying right there with them pretty much throughout yeah and yeah they're tolerating his presence he's like a satellite around them but I mean a lot of times those three coats are together and then I've got uh these are these are actually wild coats I've got a bunch of cameras running they're in video mode and uh there are four coats two of them have mange and two of them have regular hair but them things are sometimes best I can tell it's two pairs but that sometimes they're Crossing you know like the same I got one camera I get all four coats on yeah yeah there's there's some of that stuff that doesn't necessarily follow the typical rule so you got like you're saying You' got two pairs it's like Crossing territory they're slightly over yeah it seems like they're slightly overlapping yeah there's a what it is it's a pond there's a big pond there and there's a levy across that pond and water on both sides and both sets of gos are using that that leevy I got you but when they I've got a camera soon it's kind of a pinch Point soon as that those CS come across they Mark really heavy yeah I mean every time CS come through they they'll Mark and scratch and Mark both CS will and then it may be 30 minutes or hour or so you'll have the other pair come through and they'll scratch and Mark and I've seen them Trail each other so so they're overlapping right there but I've got a bunch of other cameras in the same area and the the cameras to the north I only get one set of those you can tell they're the same coat and then to the South I get the other ones so it's almost like they overlap right there on that pond I I bet if they unknowingly met up at that pond Levy at the same time coming from opposite directions or whatever what's the chance of them fighting I think I think that that probably I've got a couple videos on there where one set of them comes through and then it's not very long and the other set comes through and they act like they're trying to Trail them up you know they get you tell they get real AG I've got videos of them coming up there smelling the ground barking and then they go to howling and then they'll take off the same direction you know you can tell they're trailing them now I don't know if they get once they get off camera I can't tell what's going on but pretty interesting stuff it's very interesting stuff yeah it's kind of crazy that they're that they're they're sharing a little bit of territory and it's just in my mind's working like what happens if they do meet up you know you seeing them trailing or they they trying to catch up with them to to run them run them off or try to kill them or what's going through their mind when they're done at you know yeah they they seemed watching them you know on the camera when they're standing there marking and stuff they seem to you know they'll they seem to be agitated but you know in general I think those pairs are pretty you know the general rule is those pairs pair up and then they're pretty Territorial and they keep everything else yeah pushed away but there's always exceptions to the rule and I the more I learn about coachs the more I think there's some things that happen with them that don't necessarily follow the rules you know the the general the typical stuff but I think for the most part to get to get back to what you were to the original question I think for the most part if they got a helper Co which is you know almost always a pup from the previous litter I think they kind of tolerate that thing within their area the whole time they just keep it you know you'll see them you'll see them on trail cameras I see them do it you know with with the coats that I've raised that CO's submissive so anytime one of those adult go there too it'll flip over on its back and piss on itself then cower and so I think as long as it keeps that submissive they tolerate it so it's it's in that area whether it's right there with them or close by I think it has stayed like that pretty much since it just never left during family bus up stayed in that that home range and we'll stay on and help them raise that litter of pups and then it will probably disperse the following year I got you I got you well it's pretty interesting stuff like you said there's still so much stuff we don't understand about the coyotes but uh that's always been a an interesting topic to me is how some of these what we call helper coyot stick around uh you know a dominant pair throughout the year whether it's year round or or they lose them for a little while then they join back up later on at Denning season or what have you so it's it's pretty cool stuff I think yeah yeah definitely keeps us uh you know Keeps Us interested and trying to figure them out me ask you about for it because I want you to tell us you know like a what you consider a solid solid call sequence for March uh before we get to that I want to talk about uh kyot population and hunting through March now I always View and this is kind of I'm going to put it in two different types of coy Hunters you have some people that that coye hunt coye hunt just purely for population control they want to they hate coyotes they're want to kill every coyot that's in existence they could they could care less if if if there's never a coyot again you have those type Hunters you know and then you you have me and you and I know there's a tremendous amount of listeners that's out there that that probably have the same idea that me and you have man I'd hate to see the day that we don't have a Coy a Coy you know what I mean I I have a passion for it I love calling Coy I have a lot of respect for coyotes you know I want to be able to call coyotes for the rest of my life whether I live another day or whether I live another 100 years which that's going to make me like 144 years old or 145 years old so anyway hunting through March heavy breed coyes how can that hurt our Co populations you know like if you're somebody want to make sure you got plenty of coyotes to call this upcoming year can you really damage your future coyot coling by killing these heavy bred females during this time of year yeah you can definitely you can definitely hurt the odds of how many Couts you're GNA have you know especially across that spring summer time frame because if you kill you know if you kill cows behind the breeding season after all the females have have come in and they've been bred and you kill that female That's Heavy with pups you know there's no pups in that area now there could be another female that was breed that if that's a favorable area you could have another but that's unlikely because once you get to that certain stage where they've already dug in yeah they've already claimed an area then odds are if you kill a go from that spot that they claimed as a dening area odds are that's going to be vacant of pups Y for the spring and summer now eventually of course CS are gonna move in all that all that stuff we've talked about on on other podcast yes eventually CS will move in but when you take out let's just say that uh let's just say that that female was G to have six pcks well you've eliminated that female those pups and that spot is probably not going to be very good you know throughout spring and summer and maybe even the fall you know you're not gonna have that family bust up time frame or any of that in that particular area right now once pups are born and CS get a little age on them you know by the by the time of The Following dening Season rolls around you will probably have a pair that replaces them right but you're going to eliminate you're going to eliminate a lot of your spots and the number of guys that you have on your spots if you're killing them during you know just prior to den season or even after those pups or in the ground if you kill them before they're out of the ground you kill the female before those pups are out of the ground yeah you there's pretty high odds that you've wiped that spot clean several months anyway because the Thirsty on the ground they're still on milk right right right and the and the the mail and the helper cows don't go in the den you know they're not gonna feed them inside the den they won't start they won't start helping feed the pups until those pups come out of the den so now once they come out of the den you know then you could shoot that female coat and there's still uh barely hides that those pups will make it right okay that's that's uh that's good stuff now when I ask that question guys you all out there listening I'm not saying don't go hunt near March that's not what I was getting at I just wanted to ask that question because one thing it's just like our guys at listen that have very limited properties to hunt and they don't have a huge coyote population but they love calling coyot they want to make sure they're always in the coyotes if you go kill your coyotes through March you could have a pretty tough upcoming season or late spring early summer season it could be pretty tough right right and and one other thing that needs to be touched on here I've heard this on other podcasts seen it there's there's some bad information out there on females female coats coming in heat and breeding later on yeah you know like outside of what would be the typical breeding season that doesn't happen in a while some of these pen codes that you know you separate a female from and she comes in heat or something like that at a and usually that's a fall heat anyway all of your all of your female cows are going to come in heat at about the same time frame if they're not paired they're not gonna breed right and if if you kill there's this there's this BS out there that if you kill like what we're talking about if you kill a bread female then another cow that wasn't part of a pair will come in heat and pair up with another male that's not happening this time once you get past that breeding time frame now it could happened during the breeding time frame but that's not happening during March and April and if it was you would have you'd have cow in July all throughout the year yeah yeah June also it also knocks all those other theories in the head because you don't have pup coats in the winter you don't have pup coats in the fall you know that are newborns you know it just don't happen so I thought ought to throw that in there because I saw that posted just the other day where somebody was saying they it was this topic we're talking about said that if you killed a breed female yep that another female would come in heat well not at this time frame right we're too far past that so or we're getting you know we're talking about March calling so you're getting once you get into March you're too far past that right right well I'm glad you covered that that's that's excellent excellent information um and I guess to go right on the same l lines you know going on that that other end of the coy Hunter those Hunters that are hunting coyes because they're really wanting to drop the population in their area they're you know they're mindful on Predator control because they want more deer more rabbits whatever you know they're really wanting to hurt or cow population so I'm assuming that March and early spring uh time frame is an excellent time to hunt if you are someone who's wanting to to Really impact your your population in a in an isolated area for sure I mean we I think we touched on that you know pretty heavy on maybe the myth podcast or one of them but yeah that is you know once those cows have pups they only have them once a year so when you knock a dent in them and you're trying to save fonds save turkeys get coats off your off the landscape yep it it rolls right back around to the simple math deal if you've got a 100 Cs on the landscape and you wipe out 50 of them it's going to be at least the next breeding season before the cows can do anything about it right so if you're trying to manage for for Predators then that is the best time to do it and that gives you the most that gives you the most bang for your buck so to speak because if you kill them if you kill that female before she has the pups or you you kill the family group in the early stages then you're wiing those coats out with a year before they can do anything about it so you get a year of management on your property before they can replenish the stock for the area right not saying like you said not saying it another pair or whatever the spur KY might not move in there but there's one less family group going to be on the landscape no doubt about it that's right somewhere there is a hole and and going right back to some of the other stuff we've talked about you know Turkey pts and fonds their survival rate goes way up with with each day that they're born livestock too I mean anybody's seen a newborn animal that can't get its feet under it for you know a day or two and then once it gets to a certain point that thing can can run about like a big one right and so every day that that every day that that pawn or p or calf or whatever it is every day they get behind them you know the high their odds start really climbing as far as survival goes so taking those those coats out early during the spring when your other stuff is hitting the ground or even before they hit the ground you know if we're killing we're kill killing coats right now for management practices a lot of times your fonds you know I'd say June of course it varies some depending on where you're at but just say that June time frame for your a lot of your fonds hitting the ground or even if even if they hit earlier in May uh if you're killing couch right now and you've taken a family group off of your property there's a high odds that you're gonna have some fonds and turkey PS make it that wouldn't have otherwise you know had you had you not want ahead and killed those coats y so it's definitely effective good stuff good stuff what's uh what's start winding down here a little bit I know everybody's wanting to hear about sounds and stuff but just to recap March time frame right here it is March the facts are you have less Couts you we have the least amount of cows on the landscape right now through March and we'll have any other time of the year second thing is the coyes at our left most likely their area is going to start shrinking by the day until they do establish that then and and have pups they're going to be less vocal during this time frame prey distress at some point is going to fall off and not be working as well as it once was and your coyote vocal stuff small puppy stuff is going to start to to increase we going to be better so I'll let you take it from there Tor if when we're go in to try to call coyotes in March you know we want to get a few more coyotes coyot killed what type of sounds do we really really need to be concentrating on and let's put them into like a sequence that you would suggest for somebody to play through this March time frame to have some hard charging cows yeah this is when this is when my sequences really start shrinking you know you're coming out of that winter time frame when your sequences are probably mine are I know yours are too that's when you're casting the biggest net you've got the most sounds uh that you're playing on stand starting in March that's when mine starts shrinking down and I'm you know most your Bobcat Seasons Fox Seasons all that kind of stuff are gone so you're specifically targeted in coachs yep which is what I would be doing I'm pretty much going I might mix uh you know like that squeaky squeaky sound I might play it for a couple minutes but if I even play it at all I'm starting to go heavy vocals and heavy on the little pup stuff so during March we talked about you know how worked up the cats get if you get close to them so I usually start with a how of or two and that could be any of the longone hows you know you just kind of take your pick on on hows to play but I'll typically start with a how and then I go right to right behind those hows that's when I usually start putting that that little pup stuff you like G milk your newborn hungry pups are the first sounds that I go to during March and and so that's going to be sounds like like just the sequence I played the other day juice uh juice lonely female I think was the how that I started with I waited a minute or two and I went to Boon what's up how I on the first sequence the first stand that I made I had run some other stuff but on the other one I went straight from that into that got milk sound and that's when the C showed up yep so that's the kind of sequence I'm running a couple go right to G milk birthday pups and I'll usually play you know a couple two or three different ones for around three minutes and then from there I'll go into some of that little bit older pup stuff like we've talked about before and then I'll end it with some kind of fight and it's usually still an adult fight I don't play much uh pup fight stuff until later in the later in the summer yep but and that's a that pretty well winds up my sequence um if I'm playing stuff like that talk about the transition part of it if the cows hadn't all flipped to that that's where that prey stuff still comes into play a little bit to where you may need to need to keep it as part of a sequence yeah but for the most part you're going straight to or I'm going straight to how the little pup stuff and then to a fight and I I I will still mix some of those social sounds that's when I start playing submissive beggar and submissive Tap Out greeting wines I usually steal they're kind of always in the mix yeah those type sounds yep but that's uh pick a lone how pick a social interaction pick two or three little bitty pup sounds pick one or two from older age class go to a fight and you should have the C called up by then you know especially because they are so aggressive most of your March call-ups are gonna be you know March and even going deeper March April it just keeps getting quicker seems like right right most of your most of your call UPS are pretty quick right well one thing you know was talking about their areas are shrinking so they're not going to come in theory they're they're probably not going to come from as far to come to the call during your March months would would do you think that's right is that accurate to say that yeah yeah I think that that's because of what we talked about earlier you know they're focused on that dining area and so there's always a chance that you're calling a a Transit C or something like that that may travel a long ways to a pre sound that's why you could still mix that stuff in there because you may and there there's the chance that maybe that pair is hungry and you could call them a little general rule rule of thumb for that March talking about dening coats which that's what the bulk of your coachs are going to be doing you've only got most of the GPS studies that show that in most scenarios you usually only have about 30% or so that are transients so that leaves 70% of the codes for you know pairing and breeding so when you factor that in and see where your odds are going into March you got to think that the odds are you're calling to CS that's got Denton on their mind right and so that that if that if they're in that mindset they're probably not coming very far so you got to be close and then when you are close there's not that much distance to cover they're also very territorial so when you start playing those those hows and those basically Co sounds Co vocal little pup sounds and fights most of the time those cows are going to run over you they're going to get there quick right right well good that's good stuff one thing I was want to ask you about some of those sounds that you mentioned like got milk there's actually like three different versions of got milk is that correct or is G milk one two and three is that right yeah there there's a g milk one two three and four and and there's several of the different birthday pups and birthday litters and the I don't know that I've even released all of the got milk sounds yeah um but what that is the one two three four and so on with that is each one of those is a different pup so it has a different voice okay so that's the those are the gut milk sounds are all newborn pups with their eyes closed they're hungry pups that's that's where the name come from and then the one two three four and so on is just means that it is a different pup so you could play milk one and swap to G milk two and that will be two different pup voices that are both newborn pups that are hungry they're not in distress yeah same thing with the birthday pups uh the G milk sounds are are just slightly they're still newborns but they've got you know three or four days on them yeah yeah where the birthday stuff is as soon as they're born you know those those are that's where the birthday name com from you know the day they're born and as soon as they hit the ground and they're whimpering and whining hungry that's what the birthday sounds are right so people can uh you know they'll know what they're using if they pick any of those titles like like those small tiny puppies you know I there could be people want to know this I actually answered a question today about uh U volume levels for individual sounds on x24 and I answered answered a guy earlier but like say for sounds like got milk and birthday pups you know a baby little bitty pup is not very loud it's that's a you know a quiet sound how loud are you running those type of sounds like your got milk and birthday pups how loud are you running them on a x24 style collar I still run those sounds up there because you want the C to hear it and they just don't have the they don't have the reasoning ability to know well that's Lou right Y and if they can't hear it you know they're not going to trigger to it so I still run I mean I call loud and and the reason I I didn't always call loud I used to sit out there and looking back I was sitting out there wasting a lot of time I would run my call on you know just I could just barely hear it but I'm thinking man Coots can hear so good they're hearing this thing a mile away and the truth is they're they're not hearing you know they're they're just they're hearing people give them too much credit and then the reasonability and you know they just don't have that ability to do it so I still run those those little puppy sounds I usually start with a volume that I think sounds pretty good to my ear for whatever the terrain is and that's usually somewhere in that that's usually 16 18 minimum you know that's about the lowest I ever run my call right with the exception of maybe one or two sounds that are but that's that's typically the minimum and then I would say the average volume that I'm running on those sounds and most of my other pup sounds and prey sounds I would say the average volume is around 24 that's about where I'm setting at most of the time and I will run them up you know so for example if I if I go to let's just say got milk if I go to got milk and I turn it on at volume 16 or 18 somewhere in there is probably where I'm going to start yep I'll let it run right there for roughly a minute and then I I go ahead and crank it on up usually I get up there around 30 on most sounds 30 32 Y and I don't leave it there a real long time unless it's windy or something but I try to reach out with it for a second or two and then I'll bump it down to about 24 and I usually let it sit there until I've hit about the three minute Mark and then I get up and go and I run a lot of sounds like that I run squeaky squeaky like that I typically start it around you know 18 or 20 run it up to about 32 when it hits that high part and let it set on 24 same thing with any of the other pup sounds I do the fights the same way and I run all my house about 26 to 30 usually usually I'm sitting on 26 or 28 with my house yeah yeah that uh it's uh just like you said if they can't hear it they can't come to it it funny Jeff Ryder was talking just the other day uh actually two days ago we put a uh um our last hunt together we we put uh two videos out and Jeff was call man him turned out pretty good all this stuff yeah they I I enjoyed them he said man whoever edited them though sound like they turned that rabbit distress we was running sound like they turned it up real loud I said I'm sure they didn't turn it up real loud I'm sure we were running it loud and yeah I told J I said you're always telling me he's like man that don't sound like it sounds getting out crank it on up there Jeff was like well you know me he you know yeah I like to run it loud I said well there's why it sounded so loud because we were running it loud well I'm G I'm gonna throw this out there as a teaser it's odd you brought up the volume deal because we have not talked about this at all and and this is your show you may tell me no we ain't gonna do that but I'm gonna throw it out there as a teaser and then I'm gonna run it by you in detail after we get finished with this but I'm glad you bought brought the volume deal up because you get questions I get questions we all see it all over Facebook all the time and you see the stuff about well I'm gonna run it low because I'm gonna trick them I'm gonna run it high and make them think we're closer right well I have I have spent about all you know I'm I'm being I'm the The Geek Side of me I'm always into this research stuff and different studies and all that kind of stuff so I started I started really looking in and it we'll unless you tell me otherwise we'll probably do a podcast on C basically their senses hearing vision and smell and kind of another myth deal or include it with our myth part two thing yep y but I've I've been reading it started on coats and I have since then went to multiple other mammals and even humans and it's it's amazing how indepth the hearing process is and how things how animals coat specifically how they locate and pinpoint and I don't want to give too much away we'll talk about that on another episode if you want to we'll definitely make it definitely make an episode out of that so give us like the teaser version so the teaser version is we will dispel a lot of the myths and cover a lot of the facts on how coats here how C smell and what they do when they hear a sound regardless of the body volum regardless of the distance how all of that works Y and and it's uh it's pretty eye opening and the good thing about it is once we cover it people won't be too worried about the volume that they're running their call yep yep so it's a this is this is just the science that goes and of course this is not me that's doing it I'm reading numerous research papers and behind the scenes stuff on it but it will make sense once and I I'll just throw a little bit out there so we've all been in the woods turkey calling Co calling grunting at a deer whatever it is using some type of sound to call an animal yep elk whatever especially you know it doesn't matter all of them we've all that animal's been out of sight and we've made one sound you know we've yeled at a turkey or we've grunted one or two times at a deer and then it may be a minute or two but before that animal comes in we had made another sound that animal knows exact they will walk right to the tree that you're sitting by and if they miss it it's only by a degree or two they don't miss it by much how do they do that well that we'll be able to discuss every bit of that and it's just like you know so you hear people say well if I run the call really loud they'll think I'm closer to them or if I run the call really low they'll think I'm farther away right we we can talk about all that stuff and the same thing with like scent control a lot of these guys get out there and I mean for the most part I think people know that you can't fool a cast nose but there is that theory of well if I use scent control or I do this or I do that then maybe they think I'm farther away I've seen some welln some well-known Cod Hunters pushing scent products and saying stuff like that well you can't pull a cow's not but you can make him think you're farther away well we we'll be able to talk about all that if you want to on another podcast cover with our I would love to no I would love to because we get in we get in those type of conversations all the time and uh you know that would be a excellent topic and we'll definitely definitely break all that down I'm actually already looking forward to forward to doing that one we'll do that before too long yeah it's been interesting I what got me on the sound you know you really don't think about how complex that is but it was con there were I would read through these studies and I would have to turn around and go back and read it again and read it again you know to try to get exactly what they were talking about of course they're using you know anytime somebody does a research paper and it's science based they want to use some big fancy words that don't make a lot of sense right you figure out you know you read a word then you got to go look up the definition so you can follow along right RightWay that that would be a that would be a great one to cover because it's just like that was one of the thing when I answered the the the volume question I he responded back like will you not I guess he thought some of the volume levels that I I said he thought was loud you know I was like man it's that's loud you you're not afraid that you're going to Spook coyot and of course if you don't see the coyote out there you know if it's hidden in a Thicket draw whatever you don't know how they're respond until you actually see them but I have never seen Vis you know visibly seen with my own eyes where I have seen a CO that I thought spooked off a lot of volume I don't I I say it all the time the hole blow their ears out you know blow them out of a spot because you're running too much volume that's a meit if the C leaves it's because he didn't like the sound it had nothing to do with the volume right and I've tested that on my coach been able to sit with them you know turn a sound on that should blow their ears off and it may startle them you know just just like something that catches You by surprise it may surprise them startle them but as soon as they recognize what that sound is they don't run off and leave the country they they make a decision it's either I want to go check that out or I'm not interested that's pretty much their reaction and if if you got Co in a field and you turn a sound on and they leave don't think it's because of the volume it's just they weren't interested in that sound or they didn't like that sound or they've had a bad experience with that sound or you know it's that's more along the lines of what's going on right yep yep well good stuff before we get off here give us your top four sounds for March kyot col I'm going to send you out with the next 24 and I'm you want you can have four sounds on your unit to call coyotes all through March what are they going to
be uh I'm probably gonna go with I'm gonna go with juice lonely female for a how I'm gonna go with any one of the G milk sounds doesn't matter
um I'm gonna go with pup mix three let me change that I'm gonna go with birthday pups okay instead of got milk I'm gonna go with juice lonely female I'm gonna go with birthday pups um I'm gonna go with pup mix three because that's going to give me that's a build th mix three has
multiple kind of cheating a little bit there by going with pup mix three and that'll cover all them pup SS I was talking about he's he's cheating cuz that's a great sound that's a good sound don't don't take like that's a great sound that's a good choice hey total pup package is another one that's similar similar to but uh pup mix three and then I'm gonna go
with you said four right and I got three so then I'm gonna go with uh table scraps table scraps one last question and you mentioned something about social sounds earlier do you do you find yourself you kind of go away from your social sounds through March like you submissive beggar your female Co submissive submissive Tapout those type of sounds you you kind of put them on the back burner through March I usually keep them in there you keep them in there you keep them in the sequence I didn't mention one of those just because we've mentioned them so so many times as far as one of my top four to pick yeah but typically you know if I was going to run a sequence you know a March sequence I would basically use exactly those four that would be a good one and then mix mix submissive beggar either right in front of birthday pups or right behind birthday pups yep that's where I would I I I rarely run a sequence without putting you know some type of social whether submissive beggar submissive wine submissive Tapout greet and wines uh and then a really good one those I like them right after the pups start kind of you know after the pups are born that's when I use a lot of those greet and wine submissive beggar that's more like that April May time frame yep I'll really really favor them heavy then um that Mom and Dad Den call that one is uh is really good during that you know tail end March going into April so yeah I'm going to mix that stuff in there for sure yep well good stuff you guys ought to be able to take that information go out there and call in some March Couts if you want to we got to get we where you going you you ain't leaving you got four sounds to name well I I'll name four sounds I name four sounds um let's see here you mentioned one of them earlier that I'm going to make sure I've I've got in there and that is Boon whats up house U that was probably one of the first mfk sounds that I ran that I started seeing great responses to so it's kind of got a you know I got a soft spot for that sound and and I've had a lot of luck with it in those early early denen season months so I'm going to be running Boon wats up house that what's what I'll be leading my stand with and after that it's going to be pretty much all small puppy stuff um I really do like people hear me mention Fox proos K9 pups too um sounds crazy to be mentioning that but that is a excellent sound it's just tiny newborn pups it's sounds very similar to you got milk sounds and all that type of stuff I've had a lot of luck with K9 pups too from Fox Pro so those are two of them Boon wats up house Fox Pro K9 pups too and then probably I like I like I like the gut milk sound so I'll just pick just kind of like what you said I'll just just give me any of the four it don't matter which one it is I'll take it uh then I'll probably end with this is probably gonna throw everybody off guilter here it's a pup sound and it is a little bit I wouldn't call it old old age class it's like in the middle Boone seven week pup I remember when you first got that sound you you have been on seven weeks quite a while out Boon seven and stanky eight you like both of them yep yep so so there's my there's my four there's my four I think if I got those those four I'll be I'll be killing coyotes if I'm close enough to them and if people have been listening to all the podcast and all the sequences they ought to have enough sequences lined up now to take keep keep rotation going and keep ears fresh ears right everywhere that that is that is true and speaking of that uh early on in the Fox Pro podcast I think it's I could be wrong I think it was within the first 20 episodes we did a March Coy calling podcast and it's an excellent podcast so if you want some more information on March KY Colin now some of the stuff we talk about is going to overlap of course uh but go back and listen to the other March coyot calling podcast because you'll get a lot of great information from it it's with Tory cook Tory cook as well so I definitely suggest you guys go and listen listen to that but Tor we've been on here quite a while actually a lot longer for this March KY colum podcast than I feared we would would you like to leave us with anything hey just hope people get something out of the podcast that helps them kill some March coats and uh and that's it appreciate everybody listening yes sir that's a reason reason why we did it to kind of shed some light on March and hopefully somebody can gather some information from this and like I said have some have some hard Chargers in March you know it could be a time that you struggle uh struggle you know over the last few years but maybe you can take this information and turn that right around for you but uh we hope everyone enjoyed this episode we hope you join us again right here on the fox Pro podcast