In this episode of The FOXPRO Podcast, Jon Collins and Torry Cook discuss coyotes senses.
welcome to the FoxPro podcast brought to you by FoxPro Game Calls Welcome back to the FoxPro podcast This is John Collins We have Tory Cook of MFK on the line Today's topic is an interesting one We're going to discuss coyote senses and how that relates to coyote calling Tori is supposed to be on vacation but he must be more bored out of his mind because we got him locked in for a podcast How's it going Tori oh man You know how it is Sometimes you got to do the family thing and that's what I'm doing right now I'm sitting on a island in Hawaii and they having a good time and I'm ready to get back home Well uh now don't be getting us in trouble with Tory Lynn All right Hey she know she's done said two or three times She said "I don't know why I bring you on these deals." Like you talk about they they like being on the ocean I like being on the river They like palm trees I like oak trees You know it's one of them kind of deals There's nothing to hunt out here really I did find an island that's got axis deer and turkey and stuff like that You can you can come bow hunt on them Matter of fact the guy I talked to your state told me that Joe Rogan comes out here about every year and specifically hunts axis deer on this particular island But anyway u for the most part it ain't ain't a whole lot of stuff for me to do here Hey it would be cool to knock Hawaii off the list for a long beard I turkey run across the road in front of us yesterday Have you seen any chicken yet chickens and roosters There's a few You know that's what's odd about this They're everywhere island stuff is you'll go to one and it'll be cats and chickens and stuff everywhere and you go to the next one and they'll tell you we don't have any of those animals on this particular island So uh we were on one yesterday that had 800 cats on it to good grief It was a cat sanctuary type deal which wasn't my thing either but nothing nothing cool like a bobcat Just a just cats Just cats And some of them had bob tails but that's as close as we got Well Tori I want to talk about three of a coyote's five senses And we might give a a bonus one there towards the end if we have time But we'll start with their sight How good can a coyote actually see how good is their eyesight well I think most of us that hunted them know they seem pretty good but there are some things that you know they are better at than others and some things that we can probably take uh advantage of when we're setting up on them So without getting into too much of the geek side of it and all the scientific words and all that stuff like rods and cones and spectrums and all that kind of stuff I'll try to keep it in uh in pretty easy to understand stuff and just hit some of the high points But uh you know one of the things that's pretty interesting about how they see and something I think we can take advantage of is they claim the research shows that kines in general coats included have about 2075 vision versus a human being at 2020 So what that means is that stuff when we relate it to our own vision what we see clearly at say 75 ft 100t somewhere in that range what a human sees clearly a goat sees that clearly at 20 feet so his vision is greatly reduced versus what we see So I think that's one of the reasons you can get by with you know having a little background cover blending in getting cos pretty close to you and as long as you're not moving too much a lot of times you can get coyotes up there pretty close to you without them hooking you out right and then something else now this is advantage to the coat uh where we have about 180 degrees vision when our head's in one position Coats have excellent surround you know their their surrounding vision is pretty good Their peripheral vision uh they have about 260 degrees So you got to be careful with that when you're setting up especially with your movement because that's what they really pick up they pick up movement and they cover a lot of ground when their head is in one position So you got to keep your movements you know to a minimum and not move too fast So Right Right Right Those are a couple of the you know a couple of the main things about their vision that you know is good to know stuff we can take advantage of I think when we're setting up And then uh as far as what coyotes see and color and all that kind of stuff and this is where I think camo maybe comes into play is they believe based on research that coyotes and other K9 see mainly in the yellow and blue spectrum So they would see yellows and blues really well all other colors outside of yellow and blue They believe that coyotes see those in basically different shades of gray Okay So as long as we stay away from blues and yellows and stuff like that we have a we can probably hide from coyotes to a certain degree as long as we stay away from those colors And the only other thing that u they believe K9 CN is ultraviolet They also believe deer seeing that That's why you'll see some of these Yep You know you'll see some some products promoting UV blockers and all that kind of stuff A lot of your detergents I've read up on some of that stuff too I don't put a whole lot into that I don't know to what degree but if somebody's want to take advantage of everything possible with hiding from a coat's eyesight then that is one other thing you might consider And if you're washing your clothes you might want to make sure that you're using detergents that don't have the brighteners and all that kind of stuff and even possibly use stuff with UV blockers in there Uh if you want to take advantage again I said I I don't worry too much about that but that is one other thing since we're talking about their eyes and what they're capable of That is one thing you know you might consider Well I've got a real flashy blue diligent defense t-shirt So you're saying I probably shouldn't wear it on coyote stands they they might pick it out a little quicker What What about camos and stuff i mean um you know of course they're they're not you don't ever see a blue or a yellow camo mostly you know earth tone stuff but you know what do you think about camo and I noticed that you do both I've do both You know a lot of times in the summer we'll be wearing some kind of neutral colored t-shirt but I'll have like camo pants on And you know I've noticed you you'll you'll just go wear neutral color pants and might be in a red t-shirt in the summer and type stuff but I've hunted with you in the winter and you'll wear a camo pattern you know for a top anyway So what do you think about camo yeah And you know I've said on other podcasts you know if if I'm wrong about something or if my mind changes about something uh I'll admit that And so and we'll get into some other things that have factored into maybe my mind changing a little bit about camo Not a lot because I do think it uh depends on where you're hunting But I've always said if you feel more confident wearing camo and it feels like you know you just have more confidence if you if you're wearing it then wear it Um and something that has started changing with me a little bit is and you're still seeing it change with camo patterns as well So let's rewind back to the early days even before camo where you had the plaid patterns and stuff like that Your big red blocks and your black blocks I remember watching the Fitz Fitzgeralds some of the first the first bow hunting I ever watched They'd be wearing big red flannel you know black bars through it They'd be shooting with a recurve or long bow whatever They shoot be shooting deer at 15 steps on the ground Yeah And I I think you know the research into animal vision deer coats you know the things that we hunt I think you're starting to see why stuff like that worked then And you're also seeing a trend And this is why my mind is changing a little bit on on maybe considering camo and stuff like that more Uh the research has shown you know what what they believe the colors are that they see in the detail that they see in going you know going back to that 2075 and all that kind of stuff They believe that more open patterns based on the research and the way that they see that though just those lines and those open patterns in the right color scheme helps you break up and helps you trick an animal's vision So if you go all the way back talking about those big blocky style flannel patterns that were in reds and blacks a lot of times that worked because now the re the research is showing now why that worked Then you had camo right and then you had camo Something else that the research is showing because of the way that they see the detail combined with the color they're starting to believe that since they don't see in great detail that more open patterns with less detail in the correct color scheme probably hides you better and breaks you up better than if you wear solid colors or if you wear camo patterns that have a lot of detail that all that detail kind of they they believe it messaged kind of messaged together as one one big blob almost right so what you're seeing you saw the progression to camo from or maybe not even a progression you know according to the research but you saw the the patterns go from the flannel stuff to your highly detailed you know looks like somebody took a p I guess that's what they did You know they took a picture of the landscape and they put that on clothing and you had bark and leaves and all the colors and the grasses all that stuff was highly detailed Well now you're starting to see And I know that anybody that's kept up with it is you're starting to see the digitized scatter camo patterns that have less detail more of a open space with just some lines and broken stuff and uh a more a calmer I guess I would call it uh pattern and scheme And I think the research with animal vision is why you're starting to see some of that and why I've changed my mind a little bit about what you might want to wear to take advantage of what we now know about animal vision in particular coats in this case So I do think that some of those you know if you're wearing earth tones and maybe even more so if you're wearing earth tones that have a little breakup to them right like some of these some of these lightly broken patterns that may be the best way to to hide from coats Now anybody's ever watched any of the MFK videos and all that kind of stuff and this brings me to another point something I thought about that I think is pretty interesting In really thick cover like where I live in South Arkansas it's very thick Cows can't see very far I've always been able to go out there I used to I used to deck out in camo just like I would for turkey hunting Right Right And then due to my jobs at the time and stuff like that I would go hunting in whatever I was wearing that day red t-shirt whatever I was having just as much success killing cos did not matter Camo did not matter I can still get by with that here But something that I've learned and I used to think all right since I can get by with it here I'd just do that anywhere and it wouldn't matter right um since then and this is partly going hunting other places and seeing coyotes react a little bit different and listening to other people talk about it I think that coyotes and other animals even though I do believe that a coyote is just a coyote for the most part I think that when the terrain and their environment changes even though it's still the same animal and their overall makeup is still the same still the the basic rules apply I think you see some adaptations based on the terrain types that they live in and the use of their senses changes a little bit So if you take coyotes in open ground their sense of sight is heightened using their sight a lot more It's just like just like you and that thick uh what you what y'all call it briars and BS or whatever it is down there But when a coyote you know if you're you could be wearing a solid color and it could be a bright color and they still got to get within 20 yards before they ever see you Well guess what that 870 is already ready for them when that happens That's right And I mean that that you you drive it home with that they can't see as far So there's their their sight is limited due to where they live and the terrain that they live in And when you get them in open ground all of a sudden they can see a long ways They can see to the source of the sound when we're sitting out there calling So they will take advantage and lean more on their eyesight than they will in thick terrain Right So I think that's where camo may play a bigger role And I said you know I I'll listen to other people that I respect or that are that I think are good hunters And I give credit where credit's due I've heard just recently heard Joey Worth and whoever he was doing the podcast with I listened to so many of them It's hard to keep them straight I think it may have been the Praying on Predators podcast If I'm if I got that wrong I apologize But either way heard them talking about it I've heard other people talk about it Um you've mentioned it before You get in these different places and coyotes will come to the call differently And I think part of that is because they're leaning on one of their senses more so than the other right due to the terrain they live in So you get in they were talking about you know coyotes being in open ground Joey specifically was talking about you know coyotes giving up the wind and coming in to the call up wind just to have that visual You know if they went downwind they were going to give up the visual So they chose to come up with so that they could see to the source of the sound And that stuff is is definitely something to consider You know we always think about you know most of us do uh if we've been hunting very long we'll consider using the wind and call placement to help position the animal Well you can also use other senses against them as well If you know about coach tendencies in different terrain types to position them where you want them instead of making a three 400 yard shot you're making a a shot with them standing right on top of the call or right in your lap Right Right Placing the coyotes exactly where you want them You know we've talked about that many times and you know another thing me and you've talked about before and it's kind of going back you know we talked before about you know east versus west and north versus south and all this different type of stuff And a coyote's a coyote no matter where you go I think that's true I you know I use the same type of sounds and sequences It don't matter where I'm going to be hunting at You know I might be hunting in Kentucky today Um go to Kansas go to Wyoming go up in the Northwest somewhere It don't matter where I'm hunting I'm still using the same sounds because I expect those coyotes to react the same way to them But you still got to kind of change things up What's different is the different terrains Just like you was talking about down in Arkansas that old thick nasty stuff you're going to have to change what you do versus going hunting out west that you would down in Arkansas And vice versa somebody from Montana or Wyoming hunting these big sage brush flats when they come down to Arkansas and hit that briars and BS they better change a few things up right the coyotes are still going to respond to the same stuff but you gonna have to change how you set up right that's right I mean it's uh you know humans are humans wherever they go but they change their behaviors and the way they go about things a little bit differently due to whatever their environment is and coyotes do the same thing and I think when we learn about those tendencies especially for the areas that we hunt the most you start stacking the odds in your favor of you know calling those coyotes up and not only calling them up but calling them up where you want to come up Of course it doesn't always work out that way but you can start putting the odds in your favor And I think a lot of times when you start learning stuff like that you start having more successful stands and less blank stance Going back to what we mentioned a while ago with using their vision and their sense of smell against them when you're setting the call up You know if you've got a scenario like like they were talking about where the co may be giving up the downwind to come in with a visual well that's where the the things are opposing each other You know he's either if he wants to see he's got to come up If he wants to smell he's got to go downwind right and give up his vision But if you had both of those if you had a setup where you could put both of those things in your favor with the way the terrain lays just look at how much because then he's got vision and you've got him circling to the downwind of wherever you put your call and maybe you've hid that call to where he can't see it Then you can start taking advantage of multiple tendencies that you've learned about a coat in a certain terrain type and that that plays a big role Well that's when I really started having success down here is when I learned the tendencies of coats how they use thick cover their tendency to circle down wind their tendency to hold these edges down here I started you know I started killing more coyotes by the way I set my call up and take advantage of of those senses and those tendencies It's uh kind of the difference having to shoot a coyote at an extended range with a rifle versus mowing one at close range with a shotgun right yeah Yeah And I guess uh I guess one of the thing we had even touched on yet on their vision is is the night stuff you know and again without going in depth with all the rods and the cones and all that kind of stuff You know coyotes have more rods in their eyes that that scientific stuff but they see better at night They think that coyotes see better in low light conditions at seven to 10 times you know greater ability or better ability than humans do So they see really good at night but there is a difference in their night and day vision And you know those are those are things we can take advantage of too That's it's kind of crazy Um I was I can't remember if it was on Facebook or or Instagram or somewhere Maybe it was on YouTube watching shorts It was either reals or shorts I was flipping through some stuff and got into some thermal videos and there was a couple of them I was watching where coyotes were like on this wooded hillside and come running through the woods then come up in the open guy kills them and stuff But what I found was amazing that really caught my attention is when those coyotes you could see their heat signature going through the woods you know man they were getting it I mean they were burning in there Whoever it was Colin they was they was hitting the right sound But those it was amazing that none of them coyotes run into a a trunk of a tree or a tree limb and decapitated themselves You know they just they didn't hit a thing Just come buzzing right through there and you know it's pitch black dark How could they see good enough not to uh not to run into anything well I think it's pretty And if you tried the same thing you'd come out there blind knocked out something all cut up Definitely They come out That's another thing Yeah Yeah You couldn't do it But you know as well as they see at night and are able to maneuver like that they still have some of those disadvantages at night at night with I guess the detail of their vision And going back to the camo type stuff anybody that's ever day hunted versus night hunted you know that you've got to hide from a co in the daytime You've gota you've got to put a little effort into having some background cover setting under the heat you know not skylining There's different things you've got to do where at night you can hide a lot easier and I guess blend into the darkness Yeah Uh even though they can come running down through there and not run into anything you have you have the advantage especially if it's a dark night you have an advantage there of of hiding from those coyotes and blending into the background I mean you stand out in the middle of a field sometimes and don't have to worry about the coach picking you out at night and you no way you could do that in the daytime So knowing a little bit about how they see how they use their vision at night versus day different terrains all of that kind of stuff is is important when you're thinking about making a coach stand that that stuff you talking about how they might use different senses more over the other and different types of terrain and stuff It made me think about our trip down to down to Florida U me and Kyle Kickenberg went down there and hunted with uh Jacob Mayfield and I saw something very interesting there Um that uh made me think a little bit and then hear you talking about what what Joey experienced with different stuff how coyotes came to the call uh made me think about this again We hunted day and night So we' make a daytime coyote stands and then we'd go make nighttime coyote stands We were on these big cattle ranches So we was hunting it was pretty open tight terrain with busted up um what they would call hammocks would be kind of like wood lots and then there would be these big palmetto thicket things Anyway it was fairly open though because it was just cattle country It was just you know they were grazing cattle in it Uh but when we would call coyotes during the day these coyotes would come burning in and wouldn't try to circle downwind whatsoever They would just come straight to the sound hard and we would shotguning them No circling at all But then when we would be on the same property hunting the same type of ground when the when the sun set and got into the nighttime stuff instead of those coyotes running straight in they were circling And they were circling out there at like 200 yards 300 yards and then coming trying to come to the call But we did not see any kind of circling during the day Like they were using their vision more than anything Then when you got into the nighttime stuff they were relying more on their sense of smell Yeah And I mean that right there is a prime example and just drives that point home that we were talking about earlier about them leaning on one sense over another depending on the scenario the terrain day versus night whatever They're they're using those senses and whichever one of them is gives them the better advantage And you just can't argue that when you're hunting when you're hunting day and night on the same ground same terrain The only thing that that's changing is the coyote's behavior and the day versus the night Then it's pretty obvious what the difference was You know those coyotes at night they're because of what we talked about earlier with that 2075 vision Yeah And and the detail that they see in at night they were leaning more on their nose than they were their eyes Right And you know that was that's something that I've really started paying attention to is how animals will adapt to favor certain senses depending on where they live and what the scenario is And you know it's interesting and it's things that you know you can really take advantage of when you consider it and and apply it to your hunting You know that uh I don't know I just that's interesting that that animals adapt that way It was very interesting to me because you know I don't do much night hunting and I was you know I was with one of the best so I you know with Kyle Cricenberger so I learned a lot from Kyle hunting at night with him down there But that was the first thing that I noticed was you know after we caught a few coy during the day and how they come burning in just straight to the call I was like man that when the sun goes down we going to be we're going to be shooting these things in self-defense You know what I mean we don't want them eating a call and all this type of stuff Well they still came good They still called good but they circled and you know just went from not circling hardly whatsoever Uh you know if they did circle during the day well they didn't circle at all but what they might try to start hedge to the downwind side and probably wouldn't have been downwind the call by 20 steps but went from 20 steps circling to 200 yards circling And it was just pretty interesting to see that The only difference was was day versus night Same exact type of terrain on the same cattle ranch just you know several you know we was like on a the one place we was on was like 26,000 acres So you can imagine how many stands we can make on that place But but it was pretty interesting to see that and all it had to do with how well they could see pretty much what sense they use more than the other Yeah And a lot of times it just comes naturally I think it comes naturally to animals And if you think about it humans do the exact same thing I can think about when I've been hunting you know deer hunting or predator hunting in different places So around the house a lot of times I use a broken call pattern on purpose because I'm listening I'm heavily relying on my ears in those tickets because a lot of times I hear the animal whether it be a deer or a coat or whatever I'm hunting turkey whatever is so thick that probably hear them before you'll see them Yeah Yeah I usually hear them So I'm not necessarily because my vision is so limited in that thick stuff I'm not looking I'm not using my eyes to the degree that I would when I'm hunting places like uh I used to hunt deer hunt and predator hunt and stuff a good bit in Oklahoma Just come back from out there and the area we hunted was very open You could get a vantage point You could use binoculars or just your eyes or whatever and cover a lot of ground I can't think of a single time that I didn't see the animal that I was hunting right at distance with my eyes I don't I don't remember a time that I heard an animal coming You know I put my eyes on them first So and you you naturally know that in those different situations So I'm sitting there relying heavily on my eyes and my hearing is almost I wouldn't say useless but it's very degraded in that type environment And it completely flips around to where my hearing is is probably just as important and I rely on it heavily in that thick stuff Right And animals animals are doing the same thing Just think if we could take advantage of our sense of smell in certain situations Right Right We we'd be uh we'd be a lot better off would make us better hunters Wow man No nothing could get away if you could smell them This thing if you could track down if you could do like a coyote and you had a big buck you was targeting that couldn't get away from you Right But uh talking about the the coyotes there So they see blues yellows and then everything else is kind of gray looking to them Correct Yeah that that's what the research shows And they see a lot better at night than we do at night right and of course they're going to pick up on movement pretty pretty quick And what did you say about like the percent they're seeing like perh peripheral vision type stuff you said how many degrees can they see in 260 degrees and it's 180 for humans right and then they think at best at best that you know their top vision is at 2075 So you know they don't see in in great detail at much distance They've got to get pretty close to you So you know you can I think the takeaway from all of those things combined is you know wear colors other than blue and yellow Yeah Be still you know be still for the most part and so that they're not seeing you with that peripheral vision you know they're not picking you off doing sitting still Fast movement Definitely up at the top of the list on that I Yeah I think that is that's your biggest deal And then you know if you're hunting if you're hunting more open ground especially then you may want to consider the camo type A little more Yeah and putting a little more effort into into how you how you hide right because they will use their eyes And I think people we've all seen it if we've hunted open ground you've seen that co top a heel Yep And coming to the coming to a sound they'll top a heel And of course some of them just hard charge They're hooked and but you see a lot of them that once they feel like survey the area Yeah They're at a vantage point to where they can see the source of the sound You will see them hang up and start looking And that's where you want to make sure you don't get picked off while he's looking for the source of the sound when he doesn't see what he thinks he hears he's he's looking around checking out everything And we've all had that happen too where you've had a cow come in and then they do pick you out There are those that reminds me of a state just just this past week Um got back home from Florida here in Kentucky and had a had a good friend of mine um he's got some trail cameras out trying to find some turkeys you know we're in turkey scout mode and this is a place that we've already killed some coyotes out of but had started getting some coyote pictures So he hollered at me and said you know hey we got we got a straggler or two out here We need to go clean these coyotes up So we got together and anyway we had coyotes you know we talked about March coyote calling not too long ago The cool thing about this stand is we played some little puppy stuff Pretty much played the same type of stuff we talked about that March uh calling podcast just let out a couple different sets of house and then went right into MFK birthday litter and we had a big old big old male coyote come up out of a thicket just right there where we thought he would be but the the thicket is over a little rise you can just see the top of the it's cedar it's a cedar thicket what it is but you can only see like the top quarter of these cedar bushes so that coyote has to come uphill and gets on this little open pasture ridge well as soon as he comes up there guess what he does he stops and surveys He's there He looks around Well we got a shock wave set out there about 15 steps from us and we're in a gro prow and all a sudden here he comes belling off air and run plum down there to that shock wave and we end up shotgunning him So there's two points there Just like you was just saying he come up on that high spot and wanted to stop survey the area He probably surveyed the area for 15 seconds and all a sudden here he come burning right off air and came to small puppy stuff This podcast comes out This is going to be first part of April somewhere in there I ain't got a calendar in front of me but what happens in April Tori we have coyote pups start getting put in the ground Right Yep That's going to be the peak of it That's when the bulk of them are going to hit the ground the month of the month of April Yep So what I'm getting at is guys if you have not listened to the March podcast go listen to it cuz those sounds we're talking about through that March podcast they're going to be money in April aren't they Tori it's It's time I mean uh you bringing that up You brought up the Florida trip too I you know we talked about on the March deal what was going to be working Did the did the puppy stuff hold up or did you have to stick with the transition deal and use some other stuff or we had that go we had we had some mixed callins We did call in some coyotes on some puppy stuff and fight stuff like all the daytime coyotes we called in uh they were they came to vocals vocal type stuff but the night the night coyotes almost every single one of them come to a prey distress I think most of them came uh uh we were running kg cottontail and cocktail sauce I think for two predominant sounds that we ran and that's what they were coming to We you know we try some of that other stuff and some I don't know what the deal was Daytime coyotes come to vocal stuff nighttime coyotes came to the prey stuff Well that went right along what we were talking about in the podcast Some of the coyotes were going to be in that transition time It's kind of odd you know the day versus night stuff but Yep Y'all had y'all had it covered it sounds like And but that's the thing When we came when I got back here to Kentucky just this you know past couple weeks here where I went and made that stand I just just referred to about shotgun and this coyote that came to MFK birthday litter Uh I should back up and I did not mention this When we first started that stand I was kind of thinking had Florida in my mind So I went ahead and played a couple prey sounds So I think I played I know I played squeaky squeaky I think to start off and then I hit a rabbit I can't remember for sure what the rabbit sound was Uh but nothing no hide or hair of a coyote I didn't even know if a coyote was within the county You know there was just no no sighting of a coyote So I said "Well I'm going to go into my coyote vocal stuff." let out I forget which how I hit first but I run a series of hows out then followed it up with boon what's up house and then went right into that birthday litter and man just like I said right from where I was expecting the coyotes to be here come that big male coyote within it was less than a minute to that birthday uh birthday litter and come like I said come run right up there Fox road shockwave took shockwave out there stretch its legs a little bit hadn't hadn't give it any love in a while just want to prove everybody shock wave still got it And uh he shotgun a coyote right over top of it playing MFK birthday litter March Mark March call And I know talking about the March episode the podcast episode and what you just mentioned with that stand I know you saw right after that podcast come out I started seeing you know sounds and sequences they started you started seeing those posts pop up getting messages stuff like that And even though that is titled March calling that is a great episode If people hadn't listened to it that will hold true all the way through until I'd say about May Yeah I think that's a good episode for the den early pups in the hole Basically pups in the ground once they start digging dens which is kind of what we were talking about and then the pups being in the hole and you know until they come out that March episode is going to cover that time frame pretty good And those sounds that we talked about like you mentioned a while ago it was when that podcast released that's kind of on the early transition time frame for it Right now you're going to be right in the prime time for that stuff really taking off and and working well And another thing that was interesting we always pre-record these so it's a week or two before they come out sometimes We were talking about you know when the coyotes were going to start digging dens and I mean I'm going to say within roughly a week of when we pre-recorded that March episode Yep MFK co started putting their feet in the ground They started digging I know of two they when them things start digging dens they'll it's like they're trying to select a spot They'll dig multiple holes Some of them they will get so far with it and then there's something about it they don't like and they'll quit They'll start another spot But they've got two that I would say are pretty well completed And I expect one of those two and possibly both of them uh could end up having pups or use sometimes they'll dig one have the pups in it They'll get up a certain age they'll move them to a different den So they've got both of those and they're paying a lot of attention to those two holes So it's time Yes sir Well let's let's move on to our next uh next coyote sense Let's um let's talk about their smell We talked about smell there just a little bit So let's talk about their their sense of smell on a coyote Man I I think this is one we have talked about so much we can probably cover a coat's sense of smell pretty quick just because anybody that has hunted coats for any length of time or has paid any attention to just kines in general you know how good they can smell I mean it is just unbelievable what dogs and coyotes are capable of uh on the the scientific side of it I'm sure a lot of people have read about you know there or have heard about how many receptors they have and these pads and nodules and all that kind of stuff that that you know kind of gets boring talking about those scientific words and all that kind of stuff but just you know they claim that um canines and coats have about 200 million 220 plus million receptors scent receptors in their nose where a human has roughly around five million depending on which research paper you read Yeah that's about the average for for what they claim So just think about that 5 million versus over 220 million right and so they something else as far as the breakdown on it Coyotes have the ability to sort through sounds I mean sort through uh smells
get the specifics of a smell and humans just don't have that ability And what's what's really amazing to really drive it home and it's becoming more and more common you see people using dogs to identify in people They can identify diseases They can identify when seizures are going to take place They can use these dogs to identify human remains that have been in the ground you know for years Right Right That's a dog Yeah Yeah Yeah You take a wild animal and that is heightened by who knows how much just because of the survival instinct Yeah And and this how far that they can smell All of that stuff's up in the air and there's so many factors But the the mile mark is something that is pretty well nobody really argues on that you know that they think that kines coyotes in particular have the ability to smell that far away assuming that the wind conditions and all that kind of stuff are right for it So basically when it comes to a coyote sense of smell the takeaway is you're not going to beat their nose Exactly So better set up with that in mind and try to take advantage of where the wind's blowing and know that it's not blowing towards those coyotes or you're not going to have much success I mean that that's the thing We got a lot of new new people to coyote hunting that listening to this podcast and and this is mainly for those guys you know because you'll see stuff on forums and Facebook pages and stuff You know somebody will ask about scent blocker sprays and you know all this different type of stuff to try to pull a coyote's nose cover sense and everything else This is this is probably what I think a lot of new coyote hunters have trouble with and what they mess up on is they do not respect how well a coyote can smell They think that they can get away with them smelling them and still get them killed or still get them called up and that type of stuff And it's just you just ain't going to beat it It don't matter what you do you are not going to beat a cy's nose And I think that's just the main takeaway of talking about their their sense of smell is you're not going to beat it And you better be hunting the wind You just do not want the wind blowing from you to where a coyote is when you start calling And you know we can we can do a whole podcast on stand setups You know how to hedge your call up upwind to catch them circling downwind and all that type of stuff And we will do that We'll do a we need to do a setup um podcast sometime Um I think we you know we've done them a little touched on it some in the past but we need to do another one here in the future But just remember guys you are not going to beat their nose They will smell you from a long ways off And if they smell you from long ways off you ain't going to get them called up and you ain't going to get them killed and then you just made them call shy is what you've done Yeah there are a couple of interest since you brought up the scent products and some of that stuff These are a couple interesting things for because I know there's a lot of debate over that And you know I'm one of those guys that wish that stuff worked Man it would it would help us out a lot if that stuff works And I have tried you know in my earlier hunting days especially with deer Uh I never tried it much with coyotes because at that point I'd already learned from hunting deer which I don't give as much credit to as coats as far as the smelling and and how much they sometimes you can get by with some stuff with deer that you don't get by with with coats But there was a time where I took a shower and did all the scent stuff kept my clothes outside got dressed you know straight from the shower to outside did all of that And when animals would get downwind of me regardless of what the animal was they would smell me and it was obvious that they smell me So I got away from a lot of that stuff and started playing the wind more But something that was pretty interesting there's a guy named Tom Brownley And I said I always try to give credit where credit's due I've read and listened to a lot of his research He is a K-9 guy and he has done all kinds of research and studies and dog training worked with the government all kinds of stuff And one of the things that this is a kind of a short version you can find podcast and stuff that he's he's done if you want to Google it and look for it I don't have anything specific to direct you towards Uh I know he's done one with the Southern Outdoorsman podcast but numerous others if y'all want to listen to any of that get indepth u with some of the science behind the way that K9 smell But one of the things that was talked about up in there and one of the things that he has tested and been involved with testing is scent control products including ozone which ozone is really about the only one of the bunch that ozone ozone does what they claim it does The problem is is when you get in open air environments and stuff like that ozone is probably not making contact with all the scent particles So if it doesn't make contact it can't change the scent profile And that's another thing Ozone does not kill the scent It changes the profile So it doesn't smell like what it used to smell like Right Anyway the the point with all of this with all the scent sprays including ozone was the government So factor in and just think about this because it it drove the point home for me If any of these products worked to the degree that they claimed that they did with the drug market being what it is and people trying to smuggle drugs and sneak drugs and keep from getting caught by a K-9 when they do a scent check on a car all of that kind of stuff If that stuff worked for one it wouldn't be legal The government would shut it down And he brought this up They've tested all this kind of stuff He wouldn't go into detail in it but you know when Ozonics and some of those ozone generators first come out that was a big concern with the government and the the drug trade and all that kind of stuff So all that stuff was tested Well guess what wasn't beating the dog's nose So they wasn't worried about it It's legal to buy them It's legal to use them And they may reduce scent and stuff like that to a certain degree but the big takeaway from all that was is none of those products that you can legally buy are beating the dog's nose And if it would beat the dog's nose you wouldn't be able to find it on the shelf because the drug trade would keep that stuff bought up and there would be a supply demand issue with it right i mean so just think about that How many drug dealers have you seen running around with scent killers in their pocket they're just unless they're hunting too And and if they are they're wasting their time on that But to me that's some of the stuff that when you you know you can get on these forums or on these pages now and argue back and forth about that scent stuff all day long but when you think about that right there alone to me that kind of ends the argument Because if that stuff worked the market wouldn't be isolated to hunters going in Walmart and picking up some scent killer product and expecting it it to work you would have a much larger market focused on that stuff and mainly the drug trade So that right there just tells you how well canines and deer can smell And I'm not telling anybody not to use it Kind of goes back to the camo deal If it gives you more confidence go ahead and use it But overall you better be paying attention to playing the wind and trying to keep it in your favor best you can if you want to have success especially on coyotes Well one interesting thing too since you brought up the deer and coyotes it's with deer Uh they can they can smell you or start to smell you and they still give you a chance Not always right but some of them they'll have to stop and study and figure out well do I need to run off or do I want to run off or or whatever And sometimes that that maybe buys you know whatever happens there that could possibly cause you to slip a arrow in one's lungs or get a shot off with your rifle whatever whatever happens there But the deal is when a when a coyote actually smells you when he catches that scent cone he don't stop and analyze He turns on a dime and is gone Everybody's seen it Everybody has seen a coyote hit hit their their track or hit a hit a uh you know the scent cone or whatever It's immediate It it's immediately stops and turns It don't stop there and start smelling the wind and think about running or nothing like that It is immediate runoff Yeah And another thing to consider with you know deer versus coats deer are prey species Yeah and coyotes are predators And the advantages with just the the animals behaviors and I mean prey species by design are a little bit I hate to use the word dumber and smarter and stuff like that but by design prey animals are more tolerant or I'll I'll say their threshold You could say dumber if you wanted to to simplify it They're a little bit dumber most of the time as far as allowing things to get close to them They have to be in order for them to be a prey species You know it's just like I said by design but their threshold prey species like deer their threshold for certain things that scare them etc is usually is usually a little greater Right so when it comes to smell a deer will tolerate more of that than a predator will like a cow So it goes right back to what you're saying that deer when he spooks to a smell that threshold is greater than when a coyote spooks to the same human smell He won't tolerate it Exactly The deer will tolerate a little more of it than a co cy tolerate zero Exactly Exactly Zero And you know they're doing some studies Now I'm very interested in this stuff because I'm a big bow hunter and then I hunt a lot of public ground and the deer do not I mean you just when they smell you they they don't tolerate much of it Now don't like you said some of them you'll have certain deer that will smell you and maybe they're just in the edge of it whatever the case may be And you see them get a little bit nervous but they keep their direction of travel They'll walk on through it Yeah Uses don't do that No 99.9% of the time But I am interested because they're starting to do some studies or at least theories I don't know that they can prove this one way or the other but there are some theories going back to kind of the threshold deal that and some of this could be marketed and I'm not pushing for it one way or the other I I am interested in it and I hope that it's true But they believe that that I say believe they theorize that maybe there's a way with certain scent regimens that on deer in particular that maybe you could get your scent if you could get that's a better way to put it If you could get your scent below a certain threshold then it wouldn't trigger the fear response in most deer Right So that that right there would be a a very complex deal to figure out and I don't know that it could be done because it's just like for example one of the things the Brownley guy was talking about and I've heard other people talk about it too and it makes sense and he breaks it down into into more of the scientific stuff with all the bacterias and the millions if not billions I can't remember what the numbers was but all of the different combination of bacterias and gases and all this kind of stuff that's in your body that creates different scents and scent molecules that is that's coming out of your mouth and nose alone when you breathe Well how you going to block that right you know so you know you're definitely not from a from a goat point of view as far as the snail goes So right you know the bottom line is you better have the wind in your face Yeah You ain't beating her nose Well let's go ahead Let's go ahead and get to our third one This is the one that that we teased up that I know a lot of guys going to be tuning in just to hear about is uh let's uh let's talk about their hearing How how good how good can a coyote hear and how do they locate and pinpoint where a sound comes from man this this has been a fascinating topic for me This is that geek side of me that gets into the research side and the hearing as far as their senses go I think hearing is one of those things a lot of us me included you don't you don't really think of hearing as being that complex You know you think of smell and these receptors and all that kind of stuff And it's been talked about so much you know it sounds like this complex deal But when I got into the research side of reading about different animal senses deer coats just anything I was interested in the eyesight and the smell stuff was pretty easy to follow along with You know I could read through those research papers and keep up pretty good When I got to the hearing side of it I was fascinated and and somewhat aggravated frustrated trying to read through all the research because of all of the it's so complex I mean it is very complex out of all the senses The explanation for hearing and how animals analyze a sound how they locate a sound and and this includes humans mammals in general is what I was focused on uh and the course codes but it was so complex and the wording of some of these studies with the scientific words that they use It was hard to to get through I would have to go back I would have to find definitions for certain words And I'm I'm going to try I've been doing this ever since you know we teased about it Prior to that I was reading through these studies and I've continued to try to educate myself on it because it was really over my head in a lot of ways And I tried to go through all that stuff and break it down in a way that we can talk about it and it not sound like some kind of scientific geek squad stuff that nobody wants to listen to I'm going to try to put it in words that make sense and also you know is worth listening to you know entertaining enough to keep up with But before I do that I just want to run through so people can grasp And this is going to be a fraction And when I say a fraction I'm talking about you can times this probably by a hundred But I'm just going to run through some of the some of the words that were in these studies like binaural auditory u system uh auditory space baselor membrane cia receptor organs spatial cues neural receptors Then you've got the outer ear the middle ear and inner ear which that's pretty that's pretty simple stuff But it was then all the functions of that the tan the tempum if I'm even pronouncing that correct Right Right The Tina the cocoa the frequency the earbones the oelles all kinds of stuff DCN type O neurons And that list just went on and on and on And those words and stuff like that was frequent throughout all of these different research papers on on hearing and how it actually works for an animal to use to analyze sounds that they hear and then locate that sound So it was difficult to to get through and understand and I had to stop a lot of times and educate myself on some of those words and I may have you know mispronounced some of them but basically the the definition of it and how to kind of get us started in that direction how they hear it's uh and I I think that I'm pronouncing this correctly mammals like coyotes humans Most mammals use what's called binaural auditory system And what that means the definition and I simplified this this is kind of my definition of it It basically means using both ears to analyze break down measure and locate sounds by a complex calculating system located in the brain stem brain stem to measure auditory space So basically distance between what that animal is hearing right so that's kind of how they how they do it And so what they do is a cow when it hears a sound or it could be like I said it's complex It can be multiple sounds like the birds chirping and you know almost like think of a think of a party effect to where you've got multiple people talking and music going and everything making sounds and then you're trying to isolate sensory over you're trying to isolate right and you're trying to isolate particular sounds in that even humans have the ability we've probably all been somewhere where like church is a prime example where somebody's a terrible singer and even though everybody's singing you can kind of in on that one person and their voice stands out or you can look at somebody else and you know pick their voice out Yeah So what they do is since they're using both ears that's the key thing The sounds that are coming into both ears at the same time All of that information converges and the input from both ears is used to determine the spatial information or the spatial difference and then that that gives them highly detailed parameters for specific sounds So they may have multiple sounds coming in but it will give them high if they want to focus on a certain sound Say for example our Fox Pro call then they can focus in on that sound and they're calculating the sounds that are hitting each ear at a different time frame and they're able to basically calculate the distance between where they're at and where that sound is coming from with highly detailed accuracy And the parameters for where that sound is you know within a given space is very detailed which explains why when we're sitting out there calling the coach or calling the turkeys or deer and just any of those animals and you've called and then you've went silent and then all of a sudden here one of those animals comes trottting in or walking in right to the spot Yeah That we called from Yeah It's amazing how they do it and you know they've come from over the hill or through the woods or whatever with no visual line of sight to where that sound come from yet they pinpoint it Well that's kind of a a shortened down version of how they do it and to get into a little more detail with how that works So there's two things two main things that are used And one of them is what they call ITD which is the time difference that a sound hits one ear versus the other ear And then something else that they use is the level difference So that would be your volume basically Yeah So the time and the volume that hits their ears at different times gives them b it's a complex calculation that takes place then that gives them basically a directional and not only directional but also a distance to that sound based on the time that it takes to hit one ear versus the time that it hits the other So if a sound is coming in directly from the front or the back then the time between you know it's hitting both ears at the same time So that allows them to course the sound directly in front or directly behind But when that sound starts offsetting right or left and moves to one side or the other then that sound hits their ear hits one ear at a different time than it does the other And that's where the not only does it hit it at a different time but it hits it at a different volume And so they're able to calculate without even thinking about it This happens in the milliseconds So instantly when that sound hits one ear versus the other the brain in a human a coyote whatever different animals you know they immediately calculate that and it gives them an estimate on not only an estimate but a detailed estimate on where that sound came from So I thought that was pretty interesting with with how that worked and it gave a little insight into how animals are able to course and then come to you even if you hadn't made a sound in a minute or two Obviously if you're calling continuously they're pinpointing the sound as they come in But if you've let out a series of hs and cos you know half mile away they can still come right to where you come from Yeah Yeah you know they're able to calculate that Well there's been so many times I know you've done this because you know you're you've been huge on coyote house for you know forever but there's been numerous numerous times where I've just let out a series of howls and then went into a little pause there and all of a sudden you see a coyote emerge from wherever and he's on either a run steady trot or whatever and you never make another peep and he'll come right to you he'll come right to within you know but if you don't shoot him he'll walk right into the call And um it's makes one interesting thing with all that stuff that you were talking about there Um that equation you were talking about that it goes goes on inside their their brain right there uh from hearing a sound and being able to pinpoint it Uh what about like say on our Fox Pro say a FoxPro X24 say I let out just a single how from whatever coyote but I've done it on volume 32 and a coyote can hear it What if I did the same exact thing but I did it on volume 20 and a coyote can hear it at volume 20 Does that coyote does he think that that sound at volume 20 is further away or does he still know how to pinpoint it within inches or feet yeah that was the main reason that I I thought we should cover this topic and why the hearing was So this is what you just brought up is one of the main interest that I had and why I started doing some of this research on cow hearing is because you always hear people talk about it Well I'm gonna raise the volume and I'm going to lower the volume to trick their hearing You hear the same thing with the sense of smell Well I'm going to use scent control to reduce my scent and even if he smells me he thinks I'm farther away Well in both cases that ain't happening You're not tricking the animal into thinking that you are farther away in either case You're not tricking his nose by having less scent he still knows where it's coming from It's just the odor is just not as strong Right Right In the case of of our volume which this is a this is a good thing It's it kind of opens opens the door up a little more for us to reach out And of course any of this is within reason You don't want to go out there and and if you've got a co standing in a you see a co standing in a field 100 yards away I wouldn't recommend running my call at volume 40 I mean it's just some common sense comes into play there And I'm I still don't necessarily think it would make the cow run out of the field or anything like that due to volume but you get everybody gets where I'm going with that But as far as tricking him by lowering the volume say like you said say you played your how on 30 versus 20 he still pinpoints where the sound come from even though it was lower volume and even humans You know it always I always kind of get a kick out of some of these topics because people seem to forget to use common sense sometimes when it comes to stuff like that Even though our sense of smell is poor when we smell something regardless of how strong it is we have a pretty good idea of where it's coming from Same thing when we hear something regardless of the volume and our hearing is doesn't have our hearing nor does does our smell have the pinpoint accuracy that a coat does right but we still have a pretty good idea Take for example your your cell phone ringing if it was laying on on the couch and it was on top of the cushion and it's ringing max volume versus is if it was under the couch under the cushion and and it's turned down at a lower volume and you've lost your phone and you call it as long as you still going to look over in that same spot where it's ringing from you still pinpoint it even though the volume if if it rings louder you don't automatically think that Oh man I left that thing outside right yeah You know it's still in there It's not under a couch at the neighbor's house right i mean in the same thing if you smell if you go outside and you smell somebody grilling you can tell if it's coming from a distance even if it's a strong smell I had this happened the other day It made me hungry is what I'm talking about I can smell it and I was like man that's that's stout I can smell But I knew that that was coming from a house nowhere nearby that was coming from down the highway I knew which way the wind was blowing It didn't trick me I didn't think my wife was out on the back porch grilling you know right because it was a stronger smell That type stuff And like I said the the animals rely on that more so than humans It's more complex in their case or more accurate a lot of times And so they pinpoint even better than we do take for example and going into you know I kind of covered the covered it as simple as I could to give people a general idea of how it's working but getting a little more in depth with it and especially focusing on the co versus say us So it starts with the outer ears and I said you know using two ears So for example if you were to take away this is why somebody loses hearing or goes deaf in one ear Mhm It greatly degrades They they are still able to course sounds fairly well You know they know they can tell that it's coming even though let's say they've lost hearing on the right side Well they still they still have the ability to turn their head with one ear take that sound in and their coursing ability of the sound is still there So they can still tell with reasonable accuracy which direction the sound is coming from Right but without that second ear what's what is taken away is the calculation of time between a sound that's coming from one side or the other that time difference that I talked about of it hitting one ear versus it hitting the other ear right so they lose that calculation So then their ability to pinpoint the location of a sound it is not as good as somebody that has both ears Right Right Even though they may even though they may hear the sound fine part of their part of their ability to locate and pinpoint that sound is degraded So it starts with the outer ear and that cone shape of a coat and the way that they can individually you know a cow can turn his head plus he can turn his ears like deer You know you see them exactly their ears move to where we don't do that you know we just turn our heads So they have the ability to finetune the way that that outer ear captures a sound and the way that they have the ability to to tune those ears towards a sound or in a direction right starts the process and then it comes into their ear and start that's where all the complex stuff starts taking place with different neurons It hits their middle ear They've got three bones within their middle ear And all of these things are performing a different function that eventually ties in to the overall location of the sound From there it will go into their inner ear eventually their their ear drum which was that tempanum word if I even said that right Right Right and then multiple other scientificbased words within the ear And that's when then all these receptors neuron re basically nerves start breaking down a sound frequency volume all of that kind of stuff And eventually even though it's a super fast process millisecond process it takes all of that information in runs it through the outer ear the middle ear the ear bones the ear drum all these different receptors and eventually calculates that based on the time it took to hit one ear travel from the outer ears all the way to the inner ear and all those nerve receptors versus the time it took for it to hit the other ear And then they calculate all of that together to pinpoint where a sound is coming from regardless of the volume Well I'm glad you brought up the stuff about the outer ear and how they're shaped You know they they're you know a triangular shaped ear and they can move that ear around to pick up sounds behind them to the side you know can tune them to be right out in front to pick up whatever sound So it one question I had when you started talking about that is how how far you know all that stuff about pinpointing and all that is crazy but how good is their hearing about how the distance that they can hear You know we talk about call volume a lot and we've used this term you know if a coyote can't hear you he can't come to the call Well how how far off and I know this is probably going to have a lot to do with environmental stuff lay of the land humidity it could temperature it could do with a lot of different stuff but generally how far can a coyote hear You're right I think a lot of it is is a it's depend type deal And I think that's probably why those research papers that I read didn't go into any specifics as far as distance And then of course you factor in I mean there's so many factors with wind terrain all of that kind of stuff It's obviously going to reduce or uh lengthen how far something can hear But generally speaking we know that they can hear For example how I've heard in open ground I've heard coats you know that I knew were two miles away Yeah Listening to house Yep Now of course talking about all this stuff as you you know as distance is increased and obviously the degree of accuracy right probably decreases decreases a little bit too but you start talking about calling distances and volume and all that kind of stuff I think one of the the biggest takeaways and probably what you were kind of getting at with that is you know we gota coach have to hear us to call them up And so running volume is you know is typically a good thing so that you make sure that you're reaching out there and calling coyotes from half mile mile away stuff like that when you sit down and and make a stand because they people give them too much credit for how well they can hear as far is how well they detect a sound at distance great distances And it's not necessarily that they can't hear the sound It's sometimes whether or not they're listening for the sound Take for example listening for turkeys or if you're out and about and you're focused on listening for something You can hear one further off can't you a lot further So I do you know I think a lot of that is a is a it's depend type question you know is the coach sitting up there alert and listening and and picking up stuff or is he out there fooling around is he asleep what's he doing and how much other sound is there they do have the ability that was that was in the study They do have the ability to basically pick apart a lot of sounds For example if there's birds hollering and there's highway traffic and you've got an airplane flying overhead and just a bunch of stuff going on and then you turn your Fox Pro call on and he does hear it then he has the ability to kind of focus and isolate that sound Yep And calculate and pinpoint that sound and kind of ignore or uh drown out I don't even know if that's the way to do it but he has the ability to calculate all of that stuff together and pinpoint the location of the sound he's interested in So and again regardless of volume So you're not you're not tricking them by running lower volume and making them think you're farther away So right when you set out on stand you definitely before you leave you want to at least be running enough volume to reach out there and and make sure one hears you Ex Exactly Exactly So I guess that's one of the thing if if I was to ask you would you rather run excessive volume versus little volume you tend to lean towards the excessive volume I Yes And I was guilty of I say guilty I was one of the ones that you know when I got started early I think for a lot of the beginning callers and even some even some guys that have been calling for a long time I think those are questions that that pop into your head Especially if you're not having success you know you you're wondering what's wrong what am I doing wrong start calling too loud am I calling too long am I doing this am I doing that uh wrong And I did that you know when I first started calling I was thinking man them things can hear so good You know you'd read on them old forums and stuff like that A co hear a mouse fart at a mile away and stuff like that If you cross a barbwire fence you know a cow hear that a mile away All that stuff is giving the animal way more credit than than they do and way overthinking it from a human brain point of view Right So you know eventually I started realizing that and especially after raising goats and most people that have hunted and and have got to watch coats very much even though they can hear really well they don't have they don't hear that much better than we do Neither do deer and stuff like that I mean they do hear better than us but it's not it's not to the degree that it gives them superhuman you know or super power Yeah Hearing that a lot of people give them credit for hearing And I think all of us especially if we've seen very many coaches we've all seen the coach standing out there that you turn on a sound and you got it turned down pretty low and he just keeps on doing what he's doing Never gives any indication that he's heard anything And you eventually start cranking that volume a little bit and all of a sudden he hears it and you're thinking "Man that's pretty dang loud I I thought he would have I thought he would have heard it." And for whatever reason he either it wasn't loud enough to get his attention even though maybe he was hearing it or could had the ability to hear it And then again maybe he just didn't hear it due to whatever else His mind was on something else He couldn't hear it Maybe he was hard of hearing whatever You're right You know there's there's factors there that in some cases the animal just does not hear you Well and so you have to run enough volume to get there So now that you know to answer your question yes I I don't even I don't even run low volume anymore right i don't start stands with low volume I don't fool with low volume You know it would be it would be a I mean now going back to the common sense stuff if I happen to set out on a stand and a co comes out just outside a shotgun range and I want to coax him in then I'm not going to run a howl on volume 40 right i'm gonna turn on something like squeaky squeaky and run the volume up to you know something I think he's probably going to hear as soon as it comes on And you know that's I'm going to use a common sense approach on on stuff like that But I also think that same coat can be sitting in the woods at that same distance and I just hadn't seen him yet And I'm running my stand like normal because I have this happen all the time And so I I start squeaky squeaky on that on that around 18 20 volume just like I normally would And I may run it up to 30 before he decides to pop out But he still pops out and does the same thing even though I was running what would be high volume for for that distance It didn't run him off And and that's the thing and there's no way to prove this but I have you know you talking about a coyote being out there in front of you and you're playing a sound you finally turn it up to a volume then he responds to it Well there's been times everybody's been in this situation uh that's hunted for quite a while Um you have a coyote out there that either he responded to a call and then hung up or maybe you were walking into a stand and saw a coyote out there was able to get set up without them seeing you smelling you whatever then start calling You know that coyote's close enough that he can hear the call And sometimes they might even glance over at it but you just tell they're not interested And then you start bumping through sounds and then you just finally hit what the sound that triggers him to come in Right We've all been there Well I've been in those situations where I run through all these sounds and he still don't come and then all a sudden you just stick with a sound that he's glanced at a a time or two and start playing with volumes And I don't know like I said this is the part that I don't think that we can prove whatsoever but I just feel like that sometimes volume can be a trigger to make them come in Now this could be totally wrong This could be I could be talking down my butt right here I don't know cuz it could have just been they heard enough seconds of it they heard 31 seconds of it and it's like that's enough I'm going over and killing that thing or I'm going to go see what it is Or it might have been where you're changing volume Say you're running volume 26 Well it might take you to get up to volume 36 before that triggers him to come in Or vice versa You know I've took a sound and and made it real low where I could just barely hear it and then all a sudden a coyote comes So what I'm getting at is it's in my mind some stuff I've seen in the past I almost wonder if volume whether being raised or lowered even though they know exactly where it is or what they think it is lowering and raising volume could be a trigger What do you think about that i I think absolutely And I I like you said you can't prove it but I think can't prove it but I would take that as fact And I and I'll tell you why I think and I've said it on a lot of other podcasts and been talking about it and have witnessed it over and over and over again with my coach especially as it relates to howling So you can take coaches that are in a howling lull They're not howling very well There's a slack period They're just not very vocal and you go out there and you play one of your typical houses at you know a medium range volume and it'll run through and I'll see the coach you know kind of get a little bit agitated They might whine a little bit but they won't go ahead and break into a high Won't cut loose Yeah Won't cut loose You can crank that volume You can do two things You can crank the volume and use extended house And I've mentioned this several times but I've done it over and over and over again More volume and longer duration will get those cos to go ahead and break loose and how it they can't stand it They you'll see them go to whimpering and whimpering and if that sound doesn't end and the volume increases they will break into a how Yeah That doesn't always work but it it ups the odds and there's a definite I've done it enough I've got enough samples of it when coats have not been howling very well Just they're not howling on their own They're not answering hows They're not they're just not very vocal And I can get those coats to howl by adding volume and adding duration to the sound And so volume is is definitely a trigger And then going back to what you were talking about this is something else with other sounds that I think where volume is a plus more often than not just like what you were talking about a coach that can hear it but hadn't triggered to it He knows exactly where it's coming from and all that kind of stuff But just think about a fight sound or any sound or a prey distress sound When you raise volume it raises intensity So the intensity of the sound increases And with intensity intensity alone is a trigger Just like when you move closer to an animal with a sound that creates you know more more pressure on the animal That's a different type trigger but kind of has the same effect you know where the intensity of the situation increases So when you increase that volume from a really low volume to a really high volume you hadn't tricked them into thinking that the sound is closer or farther away by raising the volume But what you have done is increased the intensity of the sound Take for example somebody that that screams If they scream at a different intensity level could be the same scream but if it was at a different intensity you know the effect that it has on you You just It has a it triggers a different a different response in you You know you can tell that that that that is more serious And I think that volume has that effect on coats I do not I know that it doesn't trick them as far as Now don't get me wrong when you add distance and stuff like that there are degrees of error with any of this right but it's it's minor So you're not having a major effect of like people will say "Well I'm going to run the volume real real low I'm sitting on the edge of the field and the coaches are across the field So I'm going to run the volume real low and the coach's going to think that I'm not sitting on the edge of the field He's going to think that I'm through you know I'm deeper into the tree line behind me So he'll come closer to the edge of the field." That ain't happening Right Right The co knows you're sitting on the edge of the field right but if you're running if you're running your prey distress at really low volume and he hears it and he knows where it's coming from but he's not triggering on it and you run the volume up and you change the intensity level of the sound that might trigger him even though it's the same sound and he still knows where it's coming from that might trigger him to come over and check it out because the intensity of the situation in that spot has increased Right Right Well it's kind of like uh we talked about this before I get all my kids a lot about this I I've got sen I got they're older now I got a senior in college and a senior in high school but and it still happens every once in a while They'll both be home and catching up chatting just having a good time Well I might be back there in the bed trying to sleep I'm hearing them I'm hearing them cut up and do all this stuff and and I'll sit there and tolerate it and tolerate it and tolerate it Then all a sudden they start getting too loud Well they start getting too loud Guess what it triggers a response out of John John comes to the sounds So I can see how it could be a trigger for volume could be a trigger for a coyote Oh there's there's no there's no question about it I've seen it with the house and then that intensity level changing a a vice vice versa too I've been in the same situation where the kids are doing something I can hear them doing whatever and I'm back there in the bed whatever and all of a sudden I can't hear them no more And I get to thinking or maybe I can just barely barely hear them and I'm like "What are they up to what are they?" And that triggers a response out of John What are y'all doing you know so I can see the I mean it triggers a response from me volumes dude So why couldn't it for the coyotes yeah I think that's a good point as as it pertains to silence There's a lot of times I do it a lot bow hunting coats and shotgun you know when I'm trying to sell film and stuff like that you know those some and I've seen this you know I'm able to test everything with those MFK codes So you can I don't like a whole lot of big long you know wasting time type silent breaks but those little short silent breaks they are a trigger because just like with the intensity increase when you decrease the intensity if the animal was interested and curious about it but he just didn't have the nerve to come check it out while it was going on When you take it away when you decrease the intensity or you end it completely with silence that could be a trigger too to where that's when they feel confident enough to come in there and check it out you know see hey I've I've I've seen it I've seen it firsthand like finish up a stand and and maybe you know I've always got my cell phone on me I work remotely and I have certain people call might call while I'm out hunting or whatever and I've got to you know call them back after I got I like you know I'll just let it go to voicemail As soon as I get done this coyote stand I'll call them And I've done that You know coyote stands over with but I don't move I just sit right there on the ground or in my stool whatever I'm done and I I call them real quick call the office my dad whoever it was and uh sitting there in silence but I'm sitting there talking with them and it might be a five or 10 minute conversation after I've quit calling and all a sudden look up here comes a coyote It it it been there listening to everything in the world I was throwing at him but never come out you know exposed itself And then that five minutes of silence before I walked out of there here comes a coyote And it always made me wonder like wonder how many coyotes I have walked away from over the years You know if I have just sat there for five minutes he would have came out after my stand was over with So I'm sure that happens a ton Oh there's no doubt about it It's uh you know with testing the cos I've I've had that happen to where they they'll sit there and listen to a sound and when you kill the sound it may sometimes it's a it's a little while I'll just sat out there and watch them and they'll get up and here they come and of course they're working their nose heavy smelling the ground and coming in and that you can tell that it's not a coincidence that they got up and came to look for the source of the sound they they are intentionally coming to check it out and you can tell even though the sound is no longer playing I can just tell by their behavior that that's what they're doing They heard the sound They were at least curious enough about it after it quit that once they thought it was safe to come in there and look around they come in there and do it But they're smelling and they're they're they're checking for it You know they're checking for any signs of of what was going on Yeah It's almost curiosity got to them but they didn't want to come in there while it was you know whatever it is Isn't it it's kind of like uh I said we might talk about a fourth a fourth uh coyote sense And so here's our bonus one Uh so we'll discuss one more just briefly before we jump off here And except we're going to add a little twist Hey but before we jump to it there was two more interesting things I wanted to run by on the on the hearing deal Okay If you think we got time let's do let's do it Yeah In some of these studies you know we were talking about the outer ear and I was going to mention this while ago and we got sidetracked talking about it but one of the things that they've done with humans but this would apply to animals as well They they took ear molds and would form those ear molds into different shapes I just thought this was interesting as far as the way the hearing process works And going back to that adaptation that we were talking about earlier they would take these ear molds and form them different ways Well that would manipulate the hearing ability of humans to where they could hear you know it would increase certain things may decrease other things but they were able to manipulate how our ears how our outer ear took in a sound Yep And what I thought was really interesting about it is anytime that they did that it would they were they were it's kind of like I was talking about with the one ear deal They would put these cones in their ear and the human would be able to function with the that pretty good as far as coarsening the sound Yep They may be a even able to hear the sound better with some of these cone uh molds right but it confused their ability to locate the sound It it greatly degraded it But over the course of just a few weeks or so they would adapt to wearing wearing the cone and then they would be able to precisely locate those sounds again with the cones in there and so it could enhance certain abilities of their hearing Well what I thought was interesting about that as far as the adaptation side and then one other interesting point about it is once they learned it then with or once they were able to function with the cones they could remove the cones and their ability to locate without the cones had not changed you know going back to their natural ears But then they could put those same cones back in at a later time and they were still able to function as though it was a learned experience So they were able to course and locate like muscle memory type right so it there was no and once they learned to do it it was a learned experience pretty much And what I thought was interesting about that and something that you and any of our other listeners that have hunted different places will relate to So when I'm locating coats around the house or turkeys or anything like that I've done it for so long that I am pretty dang good when I hear one I'm pretty dang good with dropping a pin on where that Yeah animal is at I mean I'm fairly accurate unless they're just at extreme distances I'm pretty accurate with locating that animal to within pretty tight where he's at Well when I go somewhere else and I get into open ground and the terrain changes and I hear these coyotes howling it's going just like kind of going back to that that study I don't know where they're at My my ability to locate them is big time degraded from what it is around the house My accuracy on locating those animals is extremely degraded And what I thought was interesting about that is as you stay in a place you know you hunt a place for several days or something like that and you listen to uh you listen to animals at a different distance you start you start getting better at Hey I hear I hear our little hunter out in there
It's this is going to be his debut for the for the podcast What's he mouthing about somebody has done you know it's hard for me to get away from my hunting buddy but uh somebody has done turned him loose and he's done slipped up here in my what's supposed to be my isolation chamber for this There's nothing wrong with that podcast Yeah he'll probably he'll probably end up doing a podcast before long Can't wait But then but anyway over time you're able to start getting better at judging those distances and open ground It becomes a learned behavior and you know you can you can start almost like learning another language and once you learn it you've got it down right and you just start adding to your ability to locate those sounds But I thought that was pretty interesting because I know people will relate to it They've been in certain places and their hearing is spot on and then they go somewhere else and that terrain changes and they have difficult totally different tone Yeah Yeah They got they got to adapt And then the other thing that was just interesting won't take but a second is within that inner ear I thought this was pretty pretty cool deal with it They have individual hairs that line that inner ear And each hair so just think about that Each hair is basically assigned a different frequency So when they're analyzing sounds and multiple sounds with multiple frequencies are coming into their ear that's how complex that system is is dividing out all those different frequencies and assign you know they're basically assigned to a different hair and that is part of the calculation process That's just something interesting for people to think about as far as how complex their hearing is And when something is is to that degree I think it gives you a little insight into how unlikely it is for you to trick them by simply raising or lowering your volume into thinking you're farther or closer to a sound Right Right Right That is that all that stuff is is pretty wild And you know I'll be first admit some of the stuff you talking about way over my head I'm just a simple coyote hunter But it it's pretty it it is pretty crazy how much more sophisticated their hearing is than ours are Ours is Oh it is And that stuff I only mentioned some of that stuff just to give our listeners a glimpse of how complex and confusing some of that stuff can be to read through and just kind of give them a idea of how sophisticated I guess the hearing is of an animal because it's something that I didn't think would be you know I kind of overlook the hearing as not being that big a deal but as far as how it works and the location process It was as far as the research stuff I've read it was the hardest to decipher And I hope that some of that stuff was maybe a little bit confusing because it was right Definitely confusing for me to read through and just gives you gives you a glimpse of how complex their hearing really is Right Right Well this uh this last bonus one we were I was fixing to mention there and we don't have to cover this in very and it it won't take long to cover it I just want to get it out there real quick because every once in a while you'll on Facebook and stuff like that or wherever you'll always see somebody finally make a comment and start talking about sounds You know it don't matter if we're talking about sequences or what time of year it is or or whatever You always see somebody say just play the dang rabbit or I don't never play no prey distress I'm 100% vocals It don't matter what time you That's all I play is 100% vocals or all I do is how All I do is play fights All I you know so this is what I'm going to get at here The fourth coyote sense we're going to talk about We're adding a little twist to it here but I want to talk about a coyote sense of touch Now not in the literal sense of touch but in the form of their hunger paternal instincts territorial feelings curiosity and all that type of stuff Now it's it's not a touch but they feel all of those things in a internal or psychological way I guess you could say So I'm going to I'm kind of taking a sense of touch and putting a little twist on it that you know maybe touching on their heart pulling at their heartstrings pulling at the paternal instincts This is the reason why we have so many different sounds This is the reason FoxPro has so many different sounds recorded This is the reason Tori has spent so much time recording different sounds Um you know so you can play on all these instincts You might be calling up coyotes uh at one particular time frame in one particular area that you're playing on their hunger or you're playing rabbit distresses um bird distresses stuff like that Or like we were talking about earlier about the paternal instinct so you can run baby puppy type sounds right now and that makes them come in territorial stuff with howls and fights and all that type of stuff And we just mentioned before about going into silence and maybe it comes into a curiosity type type deal
Yeah That did I go too deep for you Tori
no no I just I was waiting on the question There is no It's more of a statement More of a statement type thing there you know cuz I see you see that a bunch I actually was on the phone with somebody the other day and they said told me he said "You know I all I ever play is coyote vocals You can't call a coyote up where I'm at playing rabbit distress." And it made me think you know why maybe this guy's missing out on coyotes because he never does play a rabbit distress You know what I mean or I other Yeah I was I was following you 100 I was following you 100% I just thought I was I was hesitant to ask you something I it was just you was just supposed to add on Okay Well I thought I I didn't want to interrupt you so I was I was hesitating there for a second or two But yeah I mean that's that is that's one of the things that I mean we cover that all the time Yeah On podcast and I still get I just answered one before we got on this this podcast It was guys he sent me a video He had some coaches that were standing out there and he played a couple different sounds and both sounds were from the same category Yeah And the coaches didn't come in and he asked me what he did wrong Well not necessarily that you did anything wrong You just didn't do enough pretty much So I guess that's what just didn't find the right trigger Yeah you you didn't take it you didn't take advantage of trying to trip a trigger associated with all of those things you just mentioned and every one of those is it truly is a different factor that reaches out there and touches a co so to speak in a different way that there may only be one of those that will call you know that particular coyote at that particular time frame Yes So you definitely you know you definitely need to make sure when you set out on a stand that you play a sound or two that is going to potentially touch and trigger all those different feelings that a coyote might be feeling or might be apt to trigger to Right So um yeah that's uh it it made me think you know about this talk about the stand that we made right here at home just the other day and called that coyote up to uh uh MFK birthday litter Like I said we played two different prays played two different house and you know maybe he was already on his way after the house I don't think he would have ever came came in on any kind of prey distress He he just you know he didn't interest him But when those baby puppies hit his ear that sucker triggered and he came you know and it was he was 100% playing I think on his paternal instincts Now maybe you know I guess it's possible that you know he didn't want to eat a rabbit or a squeaky squeaky but he wanted to eat a baby puppy coyote I don't know but the baby puppies is what made him come in Well I think that that's a that's a pretty good point right there is that at certain times of the year and we've talked about this a bunch too at certain times of the year and of course they can trigger at anything at any time They can trigger on a rabbit at any time of the year They can trigger on a pup at any time of the year etc But there are times of the year when those I'll call them instinctual triggers like the the this time of the year when you've got den and pup ring right around the corner or are actually occurring right now with the den Those are instinctual triggers that to me even though all of that stuff will work at any time of the of the year there's certain times to where those instinctual triggers should be at the beginning or towards the front of your Yes high odds triggers So you kind of I always kind of do and I know you do too We go through all our triggers on most stands for the most part But if you rearrange those trigger categories to coincide with your highest odds triggers for certain times of the year then a lot of times you don't necessarily need to play all your triggers and because you've already called the coyote up And we've talked about that before about how we rearrange sequences and how certain times of the year like right now hows and little pup stuff and social interaction sounds are making up the bulk of your of your stands and what you call up the most of your coats on And I think that's because those instinctual triggers are your highest odd sounds That's affecting those instinctual triggers are affecting a a big percentage of your cow population right now because the bulk of your cow populations are participating in some type of whether they're a helper coyote they're the female they're the male you know probably 70% of your cattle population is participating in the den and time frame Y and then you got the rest of them that may be transients and stuff like that that would trigger or or have a higher odds of triggering on another sound which makes all of your triggers still relevant but you see where your odds are Yes Yes kind of knowing what the behaviors are of the bulk of your coyote population and what stage they are and what triggers are probably in the forefront of their brain being right now they've got digging dens and pups on the brain So it just makes sense that those instinctual should be your forefront parental triggers and territorial triggers and stuff like that are going to be your your higher odds triggers Well that uh that for sure covers three senses and sort of a fourth I don't see no reason to cover taste Do you
well I guess the only one that as far as taste I guess it'd be what tastes like I can't help you there Yeah me me neither We need we need to get you off air so you can go hang out with that grandbaby and get back to the family dinner on your vacation Yeah he's he's going to get us picked out of this house we're staying in He's out there these birds just about catch them and he was out there trying to spear one earlier So make sure you video it I'd like to see it Yeah I didn't let him bring his bow with him He usually shoots his bow every day I I should have let him bring it because he would had easier targets here He got everything around the house kind of spooked You might you might have to make him a homemade one out there I'm sure you come up with the material I probably could Well you want to You got anything you'd like to leave leave us with oh well I just uh I hope everybody found some of this geeky stuff as interesting as I do and it helps them out some Appreciate them listening Yes sir And uh if you guys are out there coyote hunting during this time frame good luck to you All the turkey hunters out there that's what I'm fixing to be doing Good luck in the spring turkey woods cuz it is it is pretty much upon us right here But uh we hope everyone enjoyed this episode Please join us again right here on the Fox Pro