Join Jon Collins an Al Morris as they discuss hunting the coyote breeding season.
Welcome to the FoxPro podcast brought to you by FoxPro Game Calls. We're back with another episode of the FoxPro podcast. Today we're discussing coyote breeding season tactics with Big Al Morris. The breeding season is upon us and hunters can find success with the right tactics during this yearly event. Big Al, what's going on buddy? It's been a while. What are you doing? H how are you? John Collins. Oh, we're doing good. Well, you said you feel a little bit under the weather, didn't you? Yeah. Yeah, but we're we're on the back side of that. So, uh you know, is the season. Yes, it Yes, it is. We're wrapping up the holiday season. And Al usually uh Al plays a pretty good Santa Claus. I don't know if y'all ever seen Al, but he's spot on. He puts the red suit on. He can he can pass for him pretty good. He's pretty jolly fellow. Yeah. And we've even we've even killed some coyotes in that Santa Claus suit. So it it's it's always a good time. You have I've ever seen old videos and the pictures. It's pretty cool stuff. Santa Claus getting out there in the sage brush. You know, the first guy was Jerry Blair. You know, you got to give credit where credit's due. Jerry was the first one to put put a Santa Claus suit on and do it. And I'm not trying to say there's anything unique. I just want it was fun to go retro and and do what Jerry did. So Al, you've been burning the you've been burning the coyotes up over the last couple months. I've seen you've been I think you've been to New Mexico, Wyoming, Utah, Nevada, just pretty much just all over the place. How's your calling season been? I mean, it looks like it's been really well. It's really good. Yeah. No, it's been fantastic. You know, uh we a you know, I was toting it up. I know I average 80 to 100 coyotes a year on video and you've got to be doing close to that yourself. So yeah. Yeah. Pretty good season. We're bringing people a lot of a lot of Fox Pro Hunting content, TV, Fox Pro Hunting TV content. And and uh you know, it's just been an it this evolution of calling for me. I only hunted in the fall. You know, I only did the the November, December, January, and done by February. When they started to rub, I never really hunted coyotes after that. And uh you know I would only video from uh October to Janu, end of January, 1st of February. And and now it's you know we're hunting coyotes 365 days a year, 24/7, day, night, it doesn't really matter. And the evolution is has been an awesome journey. Yep. Yeah. We don't we don't give them much slack. That's for sure. And I will say, you know, I was kind of like you when I first started coyote hunting many moons ago. That's what I did. I think made my first coyote stands in in the month of October. And, you know, of course, after deer seasons and stuff went out, we was hitting them pretty hard. But once turkey season got, you know, would come around, we'd be done until the following October. But I can't even remember what year it was. I first started hunting them, uh, like in late spring, early summer. Uh, but, you know, once it once it got started, I seen how much fun you could have during what is historically been called the, uh, the off season, I guess you could say. Man, I ain't never quit. Uh, some of my favorite stands I've ever had in my life's been in a summer. And that's been the the evolution is there is no offse, but what we're coming into this breeding season is is probably the best as far as reactions um other than with dogs in the summer. And uh this is when these pairs are are are they have separated themselves. They have cornered off their areas and they'll defend it. And and that's what breeding season makes it so special. They still got to eat. They're going to defend their territories. They're still curious. And they're still going to uh uh come to those breeding sounds. And that's what makes this time of year really special. Yeah. Well, I mean, since you said that, you know, this is this is mid January. Um you know, coyotes are paired up. Uh what where does this month rank, you know, for coyote calling for Al Morris? Is this like one of your favorite time frames or would you rather be decoy really it really has become it really has become one of my favorite parts because you know up until now you know John I go back to this sequence um I you start out with uh little B whimper pup how and C5 coyote how you know young coyote how and and then what you do after that once you've once you've released those two how's from October November dece December I can just go right into a rabbit distress or a bird distress. You know, I can go into nutty nuthatch. I can go into Mrs. McCotinttail. I can go into uh rose bush or we can go into cottontail sauce. One of those one of those kind of distresses and those pups, you know, and and even the adults, they got to grow that hair in October, November, you know, and that's why they're going to come to the food. I think that's why the food works so well October, November, into December. they got to eat. But now that we're transitioning into these dominant pairs or these coyotes that want to mate up, find other mates and breed, I really think this is the time of year that uh you can go out there, really hammer on these dominant pairs that are going to set up dens and hammer your deer. And this is where the the guys that are trying to grow those trophy whitetails, trying to have those uh plantations with quail and and turkeys and and all the things we like to hunt the rest of the year. Um if they'll go out there this time of year, they can really be effective and removing these pears from their core areas that will save fawns exponentially. Yeah. Well, talking about removing these pears and stuff, you know, one thing I was wanting to ask you because, you know, you're you're definitely the most welltraveled coyote hunter I know and probably, you know, you probably are the the most welltraveled coyote hunter there is. It just how cuz you've been north, south, east, west, hunted almost most of the state. You've been in I'm sure, have you ever been in Mexico? You ever called Mexico? I know you've called up Canada. No, no, but I've been I've been right on the border. I've hopped into Mexico. I've reversed the trend. Um I we we giggled about it. We were coyote hunting and I jumped over that concrete fence just to say I was in old Mexico. So I have called coyotes from Mexico. Yeah. Yeah. No, I've called coyotes uh from Mexico into the states and killed them. And from California, Vermont, Texas to Alberta and so we've hunted a a vast it's been an awesome journey. Well, what I was want to ask you about that, Al, where you've hunted so many different states, and I know you've hunted many of them during the breeding season, um, have you ever seen any, you know, how many, how many states have you actually hunted coyotes during the breeding season over the years? I mean, how many you have any idea? Oh, well, so I've been it started, you know, when I was filming for Hunter Specialties, and that was uh 2005 to 2010. Prior to that, two prior to 2005, I probably only hunted um coyotes October to February, right? And and not even really into breeding season, right? And once I started for Foxro 15 years ago, it's been this 15 years that I actually started hunting coyotes through February, March, April, and uh that's been the journey. And that's been multiple states um you know, 10 12 states easy during breeding season. And that's why I've landed on this sequence. And that's why, you know, it's been a journey from just playing Lightning Jack, right, with the first uh you know, Fusion I had or uh uh Fury that Fox Pro Fury uh with the TX50 remote that was loved the first year. Oh, yeah. No, there was nothing better. And uh the the FX3 was the first Fox Pro I ever had any experience with cuz me and Garvin won it at a world championship. And uh I had to I had I I had to talk Gerald Stewart into giving me the sounds that we could upload to that FX3. So uh it's just been a journey to to go from just a rabbit guy. Play the rabbit in the fall to uh basically year round 24/7 day, night, doesn't matter. And uh I really think it wouldn't have been possible uh you know what made me and Garvin so successful and we didn't even know it at the time is Garvin would play that. We didn't have electronic callers back in 1997. Um, we we bought a tape player that we'd play 161 Kyle Locator from Johnny Stewart and we'd drive around at night, find coyotes all night long with that 161 coyote locator. And then we'd go back in the daylight, Garvin would blow on a Cersei call and I had a diaphragm in my mouth and I would be doing the pup wines and pup distresses and just whatever I could do on a diaphragm. And we didn't even know why we were being so successful, more successful than other teams. And it was because Garvin was blowing the the rabbit distress and I was doing the the coyote vocals. You know, I was howling and and yipping and whining and and fighting, making fight sounds and growl sounds on a diaphragm. And then that morphed into well, we got a video year round. And uh that's when I really started concentrating on breeding season. One of the first breeding season hunts I went on was with Texas with uh Steve Dylan. And uh that's when I started use I was popping that diaphragm doing the the estrus yips and estrus wines on a diaphragm while we were playing some howls and some of the fox pro vocals that I never had access to and my first exposure was in Texas in February one year and we were struggling. If you played the rabbit they would not come. Those coyotes didn't care to eat. It was fullblown February 15th breeding season. had other they had other impending needs on their on their brain, didn't they? Yeah. No, the the rabbit was not working and in that southwest Texas and and uh man, I got to yipping on that diaphragm and started playing some uh uh uh just some howls, that female sore howl and and and and I tell you what, it was it I I grew exponentially on one trip in Texas in February, just knowing that wow, the power of vocal izations in February, end of January, 1st of February. Um, it will change your calling. It will change who you are as a coyote hunter. If you will abandon the rabbit, you know, they still got to eat. So, you still want to play some of those distresses, but they've already heard it all year long, right? Everybody went to grandma's house for Thanksgiving, Christmas, you know, and here we're rolling into January. What sounds are going to be most effective? And I promise you, if you will start to narrow down into some of these female uh estrus uh sounds, some of the estrus yips, some of the female whimpers, some of the female howls and uh lone coyotes are trying to they got the urge to merge. So, if you will start expanding some of these vocalizations and I, you know, you can you can say the FoxPro library teamed up with the MFK library makes your Fox Pro more powerful than any other unit on the planet. And it's just simple truth. It really is. We're we're proving it. And uh that's what makes breeding season so special is to get away from what you've traditionally done. Expand your uh vocabulary and start literally talking to the coyotes. You are physically entering into their domain and you are interrupting their daily cycle by saying, "I'm a coyote. I'm in heat or I'm looking for a coyote in heat and I'm in your territory." And the reactions you get in January and February are unlike any other reactions you'll get the rest of the year. Oh yeah. I mean, you know, with with paired up coyotes, you know, they're extremely territorial during the breeding season. And like, you know, they won't tolerate in intruding coyotes in their area. You know, when you place a strange coyote on the scene, when you start howling with your fox pro, it's a good chance. Yeah. That's all it takes. You've got coyotes. You know, you got coyotes on the way. So, I I play that little bee wimper pup pow and then I would start popping on a diaphragm and I was like, "Okay, I'm a female young female coyote." Uh Tori, you know, says little bee is just one of those special coyotes that had a, you know, just a propensity to howl and and pop off and he got some great recordings with her. Lonely little bee. You know, you can just go down the list of little B and then if you can just do some of that estra shipping on a diaphragm. I get and I used to think, oh, here come the males. The males are just going to Here's this female. She's in heat. She's doing her thing. I'm doing my thing on the diaphragm, which I've done for 20 years. And I expect the males to blow in first. Nope. It's always the dominant females. They are the first coyote to the scene. She is gonna kick little bee's ass for vocalizing her willingness to breed in her territory. It's awesome to see that male good sound female. They have no no they have no good intentions for that that what I'm playing. And it's funny to watch those males going, "All right, honey. I'll I'll back you. Here we go." You know, she does sound sweet, though. You can see he's back there going, "She does sound sweet, honey." And there's no excuses. Those females will push in and just they're asserting their dominance in their area. And it's some of the best call-ins I've ever had. Yeah. Hey, one question I got here for you, Al. Uh, you mentioned hunting down there in Texas. You know what, you know, you said you learned a lot on that Texas trip. Kind of a, you know, was hunting during the breeding season. Um, we get a questions off a lot like, you know, they want to know, well, what works in my area? Yeah, you you say that and you're hunting over there, but but what about where I'm at up here in Wisconsin or you know, they just pick any state. Out of all the states you've hunted during the breeding season from Utah, plum down to Texas and down in the Southwest and wherever you go, do you see anything different with how coyotes respond from state to state during the breeding season time frame? I mean, like if you go down to New Mexico, do you see anything different there than you do in Utah or Texas or just wherever? Kansas. You know, it it really does depend on the time of year, but I'm talking about in February. I'm talking about breed season, you know, like season. Yeah. January through it depends. And I'm telling you what, what I experienced in Alabama was no different than what I experienced in Nevada or Texas or uh even up in I've hunted coyotes in February up in Alberta. It doesn't. They they are keyed in on their territory, defending that territory, and keeping the transient coyotes out of said territory. Right. So in Alabama, February, March was when I was going to Alabama and I was playing the rabbit. The first time I went down there, I played the rabbit. And guess what? I had a terrible trip until I started getting onto some vocalizations. And ever since then, I can go in there and do lone house. And then I got to playing um gray fox pup distress platinum gray fox pup. And I don't know whether those coyotes I know there's gray fox there cuz I've called them in down there in in in in Alabama. But when those coyotes would hear those gray fox fighting in their territory during breeding season, it was magical. I mean, it really was the dominant pairs, pair after pair that we would call in. And I was like, it had to be the lone house into those gray fox pup fighting over what it they I guess they considered would be their food or their territory. I couldn't decide whether it was it, but it was a territorial response during breeding season. And if I was doing lone howls and then went into the gray fox and then did some whimpering on the diaphragm or or some of the pups, you know, the pup fights and the pup distresses that we have now from from MFK, it was magical. And so it it it opened my eyes to you can go and not play rabbit once during the week and you'll still kill a truckload of coyotes. Yeah. And that's when it it really changed my whole uh sequence of calling for the rest of the year. I I realized how vocal coyotes are throughout the entire year. But how you modify based on breeding season, you really want to concentrate on those female howls, the female whimpers, and then, you know, less rabbit and more vocalizations. And you'll kill more coyotes in January and February. Well, you were talking about uh how earlier, and I know you love howling at coyotes. You do it year round. U you mentioned some of the little bee house and stuff. Do you have any other favorite house that you find yourself using more than others uh just for the breeding season? Hoo. Hoo is is is awesome. And uh um I need to go grab my remote and go down that list. Um uh what's some of your favorite house? Uh remind me of some of the other house that uh Well, I'll tell you some of the the Fox Pro house that I really like uh during that time frame. Um, I've historically always used female yodel house from Fox Pro. I love that sound for the breeding season because I'll bust it up. I'll let it how two or three times and I'll pause, 20 seconds later, unpause and let it play. Before we were teamed with Before we were teamed with MFK, female yodel was my my female how. And it was female yodel predated female sore house by 10 years. Yeah. So, female yodel was a mainstay for me through those early years with FoxPro. You know, 10 years ago, that was my go-to how. Um, I always love female uh was female long house, too. It was another good one that I will run during that time frame. Um, female coyote coyote female deep house. It has those two great big old long house at the beginning. And a lot of times what I would do is pause after those long house and then just say 15 20 seconds later, unmute it and let it go through the rest of the barks and how it has some of my favorite MFK house for that time frame. Just like you said, the little bee house. You got sexy little bee, you got little be ready house, all those are great. Um, and all the bone I Tori when you listen when I listen to you and Tori talk about it, Tori talks about when little be was just in heat. Yeah. You know, those were Yeah. Yeah. No. Sit down right next to her. And so if you analyze those hows you just mentioned, those are lone. I mean, some of those long female long and and uh female sore how that's more aggressive. Mhm. But they are a coyote just asserting I'm here in your area. I mean, we don't speak coyote. We just pretend to and and observation through the years. You know, Tori is lucky. He gets to observe those coyotes every day through their daily, you know, and yearly life cycle. And that is just information that the rest of us are just yearning for. That's why when you do a podcast with Tori, everybody's so just glued to their they're listening so intent because most of us do not have the option of watching coyotes 365 days a year. But the 15 years of observations, listening, when we emit these howls out there into the wild, um we're obviously saying, "Hey, I'm a new coyote in your area. come kick me out or come I want to mate, you know, let's mate. Let's let's meet up. I really think coyotes are above everything else curious. And so when you can go out and emit any of these hows we just mentioned, you're you're starting a conversation and that's what really gets me going, John Collins, is interacting with an wild animal and getting him to react to a sound and come within 50, 100 yards and we get to put that hornady right through them or a bow, you know, right? Or an arrow and it just it doesn't matter. whatever your favorite uh dispatching method is for for coyotes. That's what really gets me going is to be able to communicate with them, talk in their terms and get them to come. Well, you know, just like you was saying earlier, you know, when you place a strange coyote on the scene, when you let out some house on the fox pro and you're in a, you know, made it up Paris territory, a lot of times you going to have a, like you said, it's usually a female leading away and when she comes in there and post up, she's her hair is standing on in, her hackles are up and she is mad. She is mad. Well, and that's I really think that's a factor of her her, you know, it really changed this starting to hunt coyotes in February and March and and when these females are starting to dig dens, clean out their dens, you know, they're not going to have their their babies till April, last week of April, first week of May. If they bred February 15th, it's a 62-day gestation period, just like a dog. And so the last week of April, first week of May is when most coyotes hit the ground, hit the dirt and they're in that den. But prior to that, that female, she is already getting that motherly instinct. She's already, she knows she's got babies coming. And I really think that's the reaction we're getting in February and early March, into January, is because she's already got that motherly thought and she's already protecting a den that she hasn't even had the pups yet. And I really think that's the response we're getting out of them is, hey, this is my area. Stay the hell out. I've got my my man is with me, not you. And and that is the guttural reaction that I see these females coming into these these vocalizations with and it's just awesome. Well, it was talked about u some of your calling experiences. We talked about the howls and you mentioned earlier like when you and Garvin would hunt years ago and you know he was blowing you know uh prey distress sounds and you were howling and chirping and fighting and pup distress and all that type of stuff on your open reads and mouth diaphragms. Um what are some of the examples of like breeding specific sounds that you found yourself that you like to use this time of year now? You know, there's a lot of Tori's recorded several breeding specific sounds. Foxro has uh some breeding specific sounds like the female whimpers and and so on. What What What sounds do you like to play on stand no matter where you're at through that late January, February, early March time frame that are breeding specific? you know, the new ones, the fire sauce, hot sauce. I know those are going to be ultra dynamic. And and really, that's what that's what these when we're talking about these particular sounds. They're just ultra dynamic this time of year because when you get to playing Humpty Bumpy or Hooked Pear, I mean, those are just um that that um trying to think of the fox pro sound that female uh female coyote submissive. Yes. Mhm. That has just that was prior to the MFK linkup. female coyote submissive with a diaphragm. I was invincible in end of January 1st of February. I could play female submissive, pop a diaphragm, female submissive into female sore, female yodel, you know, and and those females were just running us over. And then now you start adding girl fight, you know, you can play Humpty Bumpty, you can play uh hot sauce for a little bit and go into girl fight. And I'm it's unbelievable the reactions I'm seeing out of both sexes. Uh it's dynamic the the reactions and and that's why I tell everybody learn to blow a diaphragm, learn to blow that open read howler because not only are can and then you got the uh the ability to play two of those sounds at the same time now most of the the units and uh then you add that 360 surround with the with the intense those seven speakers on that 360 the growling is way more intense. Oh yeah. I cannot wait. I cannot wait to play some of these sounds on an X360, you know, and uh uh Fox pitch them up, Fox pitch them down, you know, the 360 surround, just the ability to manipulate some of these um vocalizations and to have that that woofer, that subwoofer on the bottom of that X360 that gets you, you know, when you just play Kyup 314. Yep. It's a different sound out of an X360 than it is even the X24. And it's a great year sound to play. Oh, that Pups 314 Nutty Nut Pup. Those two have just be they're a staple. They're on my top 12. I mean, they are they will they will never not be in that top 12. And uh I just really have centered in on playing single lone house. Let it emit out there. And then what time of year it is depends on what I do next. And this time of year, I go into that pups 314 into some of the the the breeding, the the fire sauce, the hot sauce, the maybe even the Humpty Bumpy. And then I'll go into uh some of the a little bit of girl fight. Just make it sound like they're or hooked up pair or, you know, some of that stuff. And I guarantee you if there are coyotes there and it is January, February or March, they will come take a look at you. They cannot not come because there is coyotes that are yeping, howling, and breeding in their territory. They will not stand for it. They will come look. Now, whether they whether they eat the collar or put their face in the collar, that's a different story. But I'm guaranteed about 75% of the time they're going to put their face right in that that speaker. Let me ask you about this. you you was talking about u you know of course it's breeding season now but when do you usually start mixing in those breeding specific type sounds how early in the year do you will you do it in December or do you wait till January that end that December 15th is my cut off from the from doing uh uh little be wimper pup how c5 young coyote howl and then I'll I'll do distress up until about the 15th of December well I have actually seen Now, you know, Tori's way more, you know, he can tell you that a coyote will spot a few weeks before she's actually in heat. Right. Right. And and that was something that, you know, I we always assume that when we saw a spot when we shot that coyote at the end of December and she was already bleeding, well, they're already they're already in breeding. No, it's just her cycle. She's getting ready to. And but that December 15th is kind of my cut off into January 15th. By January 15th, I no longer really go into rabbit distress. I will play distress, if I'm staying on a stand for 20 or 30 minutes, but the distress will come towards the end of my stand after I've done all the other stuff. They still got to eat, right? So, you still want to, you know, and we can always break every every podcast we ever do about calling coyotes, we can break it into five things, right? First, they got to eat. Yes. They're curious. They're going to defend their territories. They're going to breed. And they're going to defend their pups. Yeah. Those are the five those are the five things that I truly think that a coyote cares the most about. If you break a coyote's day down and some of the year they're not thinking about breeding or defending territory as much as they are this time of year. So, if you want to fire on all five cylinders, this is the time of year to fire, you know, and and some people call them stages. Some of our uh competition calls it stages. They go through the stages or and they want to make it more than it is. No, coyotes are going to eat. They're going to defend their territory. They're going to breed. They're curious. And they're going to defend their pups. And those are the five reasons you'll get a coyote to come to a to a Fox Pro caller. And um this time of year is the time of year that all five cylinders are firing. And that's what makes January, February, and March, April so special is because all five cylinders are in play. And if you will learn how to dissect that into a calling sequence and every that's what changes from when I go to Alabama or if I was going to Nevada tomorrow or Wyoming or New Mexico or Kansas or Oklahoma or or I don't care whether I was coming hunting with you. I've never killed a coyote in Kentucky, but I guarantee you one of those five reasons is is Yeah. Yeah, we do. Uh, one of those five reasons is why we're going to get a coyote to come. And I know you know that's the truth, too. Hey, there there's something you said. It just popped in my mind. You I asked you, you know, how early do you start running breeding specific sounds? It's kind of funny you said December 15th is usually like your your cut off for your your fall sequence and you start mixing in some breeding stuff. I actually have a local local property here that I just thought I'd killed almost every family member off during the summer and early fall of this family group of coyotes. You know, I hammered them pretty hard on a small piece of property. You know, less than 200 acres. Well, anyway, that's awesome. I had I had the land owner message me and said, "Hey, we're seeing a coyote in the field behind our house pretty pretty routinely over the last few days." And I said, "Well, I'll come back there and see if I can't clean it up." And I'm automatically thinking like, "It's going to be tough calling this coyote, you know." Well, they messaged me back. They said, "Well, uh, my brother-in-law's got a thermal and he decided to come out and try it the other night." And he actually called. And I'm sitting there thinking, I ain't going to name their name on on airways here, but I'm thinking like, when in the world did he start coyote hunting? So, you know, then so I'm like, well, I hammered him through the summer and early fall. Now we got somebody in there coming there night hunted them. How in the world am I going to kill this coyote, right? So, I I decided, Al, this is crazy. I decided to go in there. I decided to go in there at lunchtime, middle of the day, 11:30, before lunch. I'm talking about midday as it gets. I know where these coyotes like to up in the summer and early fall back on this hillside. So, I crowded that as much as I could. I let out little bee, a sexy little bee house. Followed it up with little be ready. I played female wimpers from f first. You know, these are breeding. This is a breeding sequence. and then went right into MFK Humpty Bumpty. That coyote came ripping off that hillside up into a wide open hayfield with a grass not four inches tall at 11:35 11:40 in a day, smack dab in the middle of the day and I shot that thing like 30 steps uh from the call. First breeding sounds I played of the year and it was like December 11th, 12th, 13th somewhere in there. And that's that was that was you know cuz I'd played summertime denning sequences early on and I went into my fall style calling sequences like you was talking about with rabbit and all that. Who knows what the guy played the other night you know that night before two or three nights before. I'm sure he went there and just played rabbit but I went in there with bre specific sounds to a coyote that has heard all kinds of stuff in December and killed him middle of the day. Well, and that's what I tell people when people come to our seminars in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. They're like, "Man, we know where some coyotes are. They're just so smart." And I said, "Have you gone in from 10 to 2, middle of the day, get in there with a shotgun and see what happens. Change it up. Do something different." I had never hunted Tennessee. I went there the end of February and they're like, "It's going to be tough, Big Al, but we can get you in before turkey season and let's go try it." I went with the Goens boys, Bart and Blair and their dad. And uh man, we had made a great You can go look that up on Foxboro hunting TV. Look up Tennessee year four, the 40 40 series, I think, or 50, what year four or five, whatever that was. I'd never been to Tennessee. And yeah, I still tried to play the rabbit because every, you know, isn't that our confidence? Don't we always play what is our confidence? Fall back on when doubt the rabbit, right? Well, that's it. And you know what? It still works year round because they got to eat. It's the one it is their main main deal. They they always going to have to eat. But if you will start incorporating more of those vocals and that's what I found. I was at that point in time when I went and hunted with the Goens boys in Tennessee, I didn't know any other I didn't know to vocalize in February as much. Right. M so I was doing but I if you watch that to watch those episodes back that I did 10 12 13 years ago now and see how much I've progressed from them till now and the sounds that I now have options on it is night and day and so if you'll go back and just watch some of these older FoxPro episodes on FoxPro Hunting TV I promise you guys will pull nuggets from them but now you can see that now that we have the MFK Humpty Bumpty, fire sauce, hot sauce, little be ready. You know, I'm telling you what, it's a whole new world. And there are sounds I have yet to play during the breeding season that I know are just dynamic. But then if you can play these pups, uh, uh, broke pups, uh, little broke bee, those whimpers, those those those pup, don't get away from the pup sounds this time of year. Even though there is the pups aren't on going to hit the ground till April, for some reason during breeding season, you can put in some of these little wimper pup wine pup and I know you've had success with those too this time of year. Yep. No. Let me ask you this. You said you would start like your breeding specific type sounds there in the middle of December uh because you just get reactions from them. How far up into the year? Like what's the latest you'll play them? Like on up into March, you know, how much longer do you see like type sounds being highly effective? April. I mean, we went out in April and and uh I've been out in April and I was like, what am I doing? I'm playing the rabbit. I'm playing all these sounds. And it seems like you here come the female. And she was as big as a barn. We went to Nevada ready to pop. No. And in fact, we cut her open. She had uh eight puppies in her and uh she came she finished to a a distress sound but she came to some vocalizations. She was defending her territory pregnant and uh she knew she heard I think I set up right on her den where she wanted to have her pups and so I have played these the same sounds I've played December 15th I'll play April 15th and get the same reactions and uh it's just a magical time of year because we are firing on every cylinder you know you come out you come out October um you can deal how, but chances are it's the the dispersal has happened, the pups are out on their own. You probably ought to stick to prey distress, right? Because that's more effective. But you're not going to do as you're not going to play Humpty Bumpy. You're not going to you could play those sounds in October, but you're not going to get the reactions you'll get in end of December into January. And it's so it's a simple fact. You've got two at least one more cylinder you can fire on that you can't in October. And that extra cylinder is extra coyotes on the back of the truck. That's all it is. Yep. Yep. Let me ask you this question here. You know, this goes right along with calling coyotes and the sounds used and stuff like that. Uh typically, how long are your coyote stands during the breeding season? Are they longer or shorter or anything? Are they any different compared to any time of the year? You definitely want to lengthen them out. And I know you lengthen them out too because you've got to get, you know, you're creating this scenario. You're creating this I'm a coyote in your territory. Now, you have to give those coyotes time to get there. And uh that 12 15 minutes, you should know what's up. But if you can sit there and do some of that extra breeding whimper, that extra girl fight for another 5 minutes, um I really think you'll add fur to the truck if you'll just stay another 5 to 10 minutes. And I really think it's that time of year. It there there's still contests going on and you still need, you know, the contest caller in me is is 8 to 12 minutes, it's over. Um, when I'm videoing, we stay 15 all through the year. But when I'm videoing in February, March, I'll stay 20, 25 minutes. And I really think I do that because even if I pick up one extra coyote by the time you lug that camera, that gun, that chair, that tripod, you know, and you got a cameraman that's lugging that camera, that tripod, that chair, you know, you're really bulky. You're really moving. And I think most guys don't have country to run. Out here in the west, I can run and never touch the same country 365 days a year, right? On public land. I don't have to ever make the same stand. If you're hunting your uncle's 40 acre plot, you know, you need to stay an hour. You need to stay that hour, hour and a half because that coyote may have just come into your hearing. You know, there's no if you only get one or two stands a day, lengthen them out, make them longer. Nothing nothing wrong with making making a longer coyote stand for sure. You you just mentioned the western states there. You know, that's where you spend the majority of your time calling. I think it's a pretty good question here. From from how far will coyotes come from to come to the call during the breeding season? What's the furthest you've seen a coyote uh you know spotted a coyote coming from or hurt him how or whatever and then him run to the call? How how far will coyotes come to the call during the breed? I've told this story before and and people have heard me in all my seminars. I talk about this coyote in Nevada that I sat down and I could see I this this valley is I want to say this valley is four and a half to 5 miles across and I was sitting on a twotrack and I was going to drive my Toyota truck across that twotrack and I sat down and I started calling and immediately I I had a 16 power. It was before I had binocular, any good binoculars. In fact, this is way back in the early '9s. I uh sat down on this twotrack and I started calling and and uh I looked and I look at that rabbit and I could see this on the twotrack. Well, all of a sudden I realized that wasn't a rabbit. It was a coyote. And 12 minutes later, I shot that coyote sniffing the speaker at 30 ft. And I was playing an old tape I was playing an old tape player that looked like a fishing tackle box. And on the end of it, it had a tape that you could put in tapes. And my father-in-law had a 101C jack. And that's what I was playing at that time of year. And it was it was uh I believe it was January. And uh I threw that coyote in the truck with that old speaker, that old tape player that looked like a fishing it just looked like an old common fishing tackle box that they had converted into this collar. And I can't remember the brand of that collar, but I drove 2.3 miles to where that coyote had hopped onto that twotrack that I'd seen out in this valley. Crazy. So that coyote got there from 2.3 miles in 12 minutes. And so I honestly think and and but that back then I would throw in that tape and I would max that volume on that old TOA speaker so it was loud, right? And uh and but if 2.3 miles 12 minutes so I honestly think now you add hardwoods that country you hunt I don't think sound can travel 2.3 miles through those hardwoods. Heck if you went well like from where I'm sitting at right now and we coyote hunt right here in my area where I'm sitting at. I mean kill coyotes in the field behind the house called them up. Um right. But the thing is you're talking about 2.3 miles. If I go 2.3 miles to the towards the west right here, I'll cross Yep. about six bobbar fences, couple wavar fences, four hollers and ridges, and then a county highway and a state highway, you know, they they can't, you know, and that's Yeah. No, you you you But that's what's awesome about your country is there is a bunch of those wire fences that nobody allows any hunting whatsoever. That's right. and they got coyotes and every every coyote you kill off your place is going to be replaced almost instantly with coyotes that go oh where did Joe go and they'll howl and they'll listen no howl from Joe that kicked their butt because he crossed that fence you know when guys are calling at night one of the biggest qu I know you get the same question this time of year they were coming and they got to this ditch or they got to this fence and they wouldn't cross it they wouldn't come probably one of the most common questions we get yeah it's that terror territorial boundary. But once old Joe doesn't howl anymore, that coyote that kicked their butt for crossing that fence during the summer, once they realize he's no longer there and all that food source is theirs now, those coyotes will cross that fence and they'll make that territory theirs. And that's what makes coyotes the most renewable resource on the planet. We've said this a 100 times. If you've got 100 coyotes in an area, you can kill 75 of those 100 coyotes and the 25 left will get you back to 100 in one pup crop. That is a wonderful renewable resource. It is. So, you can lean on you can lean on coyotes pretty hard and they're resilient. They are survivors and they are awesome. So just because they stopped at that fence one night doesn't mean once you clear out that area once you've killed that dominant pair out of an area don't keep calling because they're going to come eventually that that boundary will no longer exist that did before. That's right. That's right. And it changes it change. It can change weekly, daily, monthly. Um and another the another common question this time of year I'll make a stand. I made a stand in Colorado at 8:00 a.m. and I knew there should have been coyotes at this crossroads. Three main roads came together and were on this mountain and it was one of the best elk hunting mountains on the planet and no coyotes came. Well, at 5:30 that evening, it's almost dark. We were driving back through. I said, "We're going to make this stand again." And my camera says, "We already made this stand." I said, "Yeah, at 8 this morning." And I called a pair in that night on that stand. That was I didn't call anything in at 8:00 a.m., but at 5:00 p.m. I called in a pair. And uh that's when I realized how soon can you call a stand? Well, in just a few hours if you if it's a truly good crossing area. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I used just like a question like that. We get this every once in a while or I'll see people post something like two coyotes out in the field and I say which one you shooting first and all this type of stuff. Was talking about you mentioned it earlier about, you know, those females this time of year usually leading leading the pair. You know, they're the ones that's charging in and the males kind of hanging back. Well, during the breeding season, if you can tell which one's which, which coyote are you shooting first? You shooting the male or the female? You you always shoot that female first cuz that male's got to back her play. Yeah. And if she goes to spinning or yipping, I I really think that male is going to stick around and give you that chance to dump him, too. Yep. Yep. Yep. That's uh that's pretty much answer for most people. I don't think I've ever asked question. They say they shoot. We just put that. Yeah. No, we uh videoed from Yeah. No. And when we're videoing, what I want people to understand that watch when we put up that fluffy coyote video from Alberta and I had that big pair. They were coming. They were they were mad. And then you see there was actually five coyotes on that stand. If you look behind that pair Oh yeah. I know we had coyotes coming from out of the woodwork. But I always tell Richie first coyote. And you've heard me say that. How many when we film together? You always shoot the time. One of the thing too, you got to take your best shot opportunity. Especially when you're filming in your hand. You got to take And that was a big male and I shot him. And you saw how dedicated that female was behind him. She did not miss a beat. She's still running. She's still running. That's back in October. She's still running. Yeah. No, that's the truth, too. And And so I I love the comments where you screwed up. If you were going to get them both, you should have shot the back one. Well, if I was contest calling, if I was contest calling and I had my partner there next to me, absolutely I would have shot that farthest coyote first, you know, and and we'd have we'd have met at the middle on that closer. Speaking of that that stand, man, what a beautiful stand and what a beautiful call in. If you guys hadn't checked that out, make sure you do. It's what is it? Was it wheat stubble field with these little coolies and stuff or little itches running through bowling up everywhere and fluffy and man there's just white tails and mu deer and wild horses and and there's just and they so they dry land farm this with wheat or uh canola and those coyotes literally they are huge getting big on everything they're eating out there and to go call that country in Alberta is so special and uh and to get the reactions and and uh you know it's crazy to me that you can play grey fox pup distress in Alberta, Canada in the fall and those pairs just blow in all mad. Uh I don't think there's a gray fox for hundreds if not thousands of miles from those coyotes. There's something about that gray fox pup distress that it sounds like something eating their eating what they is on their territory. And I really think that's uh I really think that's an overlooked breeding sound is to play some gray fox pup distress. The guys out east that are fox hunting, you know, they're playing this gray fox pup distress and they're getting coyotes to come to it. They're killing. They know they know how to use. Oh yeah. No, I I I I kind of learned that sound after I hunted gray fox and and red fox back east in Maryland and and in and PA. And that's what, you know, John, that's what really makes it special for me is I've hunted coyotes with uh uh from Gerald Stewart to to Ed Wimberly to you to to uh you know, Kelly Jackson and and u all the the the the coyote killers I've hunted with through the years. Um, I've hunted with some of the best and and it just I get different perspectives. I get different input. Uh, you know, the Clay Owens of the world and and uh this these guys that I I filmed with any of the Fur Taker episodes I filmed with uh every one of these guys has has taught me something. Every one of these guys I've spent time with and and then you you add the sound libraries that we have available to us. We're still learning and we're learning together and it's just been an amazing journey. Hey, you know what that when you said hunting with me and learned something? I tell you what you learned when you was hunting with me is when we was shooting at a coyote at 447 yards, whatever it was, you'd rather have a 6 mm Creed in your hand than a 223, right? Yeah. But but I knew you had I knew you I knew you had my rifle and so you were in good shape cuz I knew that rifle was was tuned for that distance. Yeah. Yeah. I got to go. You did put some Kentucky you did put some Kentucky windage on that one. So I got to give that's all credit to Daniel Boone John Collins. Hey, I got I got a couple more questions here I want to ask you. One of them we mentioned we mentioned something about just briefly decoy dogging. You know, you're a big decoy dogger. Um have you ever tried to use your dogs during the breeding season for decoy? I know old Joy hardly out this way does it a little bit. Oh yeah. No, you take a single dog this time of year it's magic. M um when that pair shows up and there's a dog running around, that male loses his they they'll go berserk. Uh thinking there's a dog out there. I really think coyotes fight with dogs more than we we know. I think there's a lot of stray dogs in the world, it doesn't seem to matter where I go. Um you know, you get around the Indian reservations, tons of stray dogs. You just And I just think coyotes deal with dogs. But when it's February and it's the peak and they're really defending their territories and they're breeding hard and heavy, you have a single dog out there. Um, it can be special to watch these males come in and try to just beat that dog up. Yeah, I've seen some pretty cool interactions some of the stuff he's film seem like you still, you know, get quite a few that run other way, but you find them right right coyotes. Good grief. It's a pretty pretty cool engagement. Well, and that's so that's the that's the thing about decoy dog and we've all seen it that we we go out there with our dogs and we all want this great reaction where we get this howling and biting fight. No, here comes a coyote. They see the dogs and they where if they wouldn't if we wouldn't had a dog on that stand, that coyote would have sculled right in, put his nose in the speaker, but he sees the dogs and turns and hauls butt and then you just go, "Oh man, what I screwed up there." You don't know. Every coyote is different. It really is a bar scene. You got fighters, you got lovers, and you got people on the on the fence that they're just there to watch the fighting or whatever goes on. Um, and so every coyote's different. Every coyote's demeanor is different. But when you get these older, mature dogs that are probably wise to the rabbit, uh, you can go in there in January, February before these pups hit the ground and you can save I mean, what are they? I mean, what's the statistic now? 8 to 12 fawns. Each coyote is going to kill 8 to 12 of your whitetail fawns. Oh, they're going to eat your trip. You know, if they come across one, it's laying there. They're eating it. There ain't no doubt about that. No. So, if you And what what I love is most these guys that start hunting coyotes, they'll hang their bows. They got the white tails hanging on the wall, but what they really grew on is is starting to to dissect coyotes and hunt coyotes. I know you know them. I know them. There's several guys that have quit whitetail hunting and just go to year round. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Hey, I've got uh one more. I got two questions for you. Two more questions. One, we've been talking about all this breeding season stuff. We've talked about different house and breeding specific sounds. You've mentioned some other stuff like uh gray fox sounds and all this. Say you're going coyote hunting tomorrow morning. Tell us what the sequence looks like that you'll be running. There is no question that I'll throw little bee, whimper pup howl. Um if if I feel like I really want to be raspy, I'll follow it up with hey boo heyoo how and then I just sit for about 2 or 3 minutes and then I'll go into uh I'll either go into pups 314 or I'll go into uh that uh little broke be for about 30 seconds. I want to sound like a coyote that's just getting whooped up or that, you know, one of these younger coyote that is just, you know, and I want those coyotes to be going like, what is going on? Are they already breeding? And then you can go into uh the more aggressive, which is the hot sauce, fire sauce. And I'll let those eat for about four minutes on an interval. I'll run it for a couple minutes or a minute and a half, a minute. You know, I really think that's what sets it apart. Each day is different. That length, the amount of sound that you're emitting. And uh and I may uh I may mix it. I may uh you know uh do a duel with Fire Sauce and Humpty Bumpty or I may try and get both of those sounds, you know, and I'll make one louder than the other on that uh remote on that Fox Pro TX2000 remote. And then uh man, I'll go into the girl fight or that pound town. Uh I'll go into uh you know uh Foxboro's got some good fight sounds and and I'll end with an aggressive I mean just an aggressive fight and uh and then I'll be weighing a 25 to 35 lb male or female. I like it. I like that TX2000 remote. Maybe maybe a maybe the the pair. You'll have the pair weighing them up. Yeah. No, you know, you've seen me shoot, so let's This is Let's make sure it won't on video. That's right. That's right. That's right. No. And why do I got to get them? Sometimes I'll miss them standing at 100 and have to hit them running at three. I don't understand. Give them a fighting chance. I guess you miss I've seen you miss them at 30 steps and then roll them up on a flatout run at 420. Don't make no sense to me. I ain't never seen nothing like it. If you miss if you miss initial shot, he ain't getting away. I know you still got him. What I what I love about it is all the camera guys know that they are to stay on that at all cost. There's going to be lead. If I do roll him up at 420 and I look and the camera's on me, I go to asht chewing. I had a had an uncle always said when there's lead in there, there's danger. You can't kill them. Well, and you can't kill. That's it. You can't kill what you don't fire a Hornady bullet at. So, uh, you know, at the end of the day, ammunition really is cheap. So, what do you what do you you know, and down there in Alabama, I could go through a 20 round clip with the best of them. So, target target-rich environment. We're lucky we have the sponsors we do. So, uh, we we appreciate each and every one of them for sure. I've got one more thing here, and you mentioned earlier about seminars. Um, Great American Outdoor Show will be here very fast. Um, I know you're going to be doing seminars. I'll be here the first first weekend. Just the Saturday. I'll be there my first Saturday, Sunday. Saturday, Sunday, Monday, I believe. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Be doing seminars. Don't have the exact times yet, but that's at uh in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. The Great American Outdoor Show. It's awesome show. Come come see Al. And guess what? I will be there the same. I know I'm there Saturday and Sunday and I'll be doing seminars Saturday and Sunday. So, make sure y'all come. I'm sure they're going to have a split up. One of us probably be doing a seminar in the morning. Other will probably be doing a seminar in the afternoon. But, but come come check us out. Come by the booth, say hi. We'd love to talk Kyle Colin with you. Uh please come to the seminars. It's u I've I've s on Al seminar. He does a does an excellent job. You're guaranteed to learn and he's extremely entertaining. So trust me, you'll have a good time. You come to Great American Outdoor Show. That's for sure. So we'll be there Saturday. Then the following week, I'm in and the following weekend I'm at Western Hunting Conservation Expo. I've got seminars there, I believe, Friday and Saturday. Salt Lake City, Utah. Yep. Yep. Awesome. Good stuff. I think the rest of the week I'll be in Nashville at the NWTF show, but I am not doing any seminars. But you can come by the booth and you can ask all the questions you want to. We'll talk coyote calling, bobcat calling, whatever you want to talk about. So, well, Mr. Morris, you got anything that you would like to leave us with? You know, um, we just need to link up. Uh, you can't kill them on the couch, ladies and gentlemen. Uh, it doesn't matter. You'll learn more on a bad day than you will on a on a good day. So, go out and call every chance you get. Uh, uh, stay after them. And that is our motto. We do it right. We do it year round. And we do it with the best callers on the planet. And that's the Americanmade Fox Bros. And and uh me and John Collins, we live for this stuff. So get out there. All right. Now, we appreciate you and we appreciate everyone that's tuned in. We hope everyone enjoyed this episode and we hope you join us again right here on the Fox Pro