In this episode, Jon Collins and Torry Cook discuss the family bust up time.
Welcome to the FoxPro podcast brought to you by FoxPro Game Calls. Well, it's that time again, family bust up. This is one of my favorite times of the year to hunt and that's our topic for this episode. Welcome back to the Fox Pro podcast. I'm John Collins and once again we have Tory Cook of MFK joining us. Tori, you're having a little bad luck today, ain't you? Well, before we got on this podcast, I was I don't know if it's good luck or bad luck. I think I'm gonna go with good luck, though, because I'm sitting here in Arkansas now. I am sitting in a weird spot. I'll tell you about that in a minute. But I'm I'm think it's good luck because I am in Arkansas. I'm doing a podcast with you talking about family bust up and coaches. I was supposed to be sitting in Miami, Florida, and Miami and them weirdos ain't my kind of place. So due to all them tropical storms, our trip got cancelled. I got to stay here. But the bad luck you're referring to is I got to stay here and I was driving. We were supposed to do this podcast a little bit later. My truck broke down making all kinds of noise. Pulled into the tire shop or mechanic shop and sure enough I got a U-jint going out and that's what was making all the noise. So they said, "You're going to be tied up for two or three hours right here." So, I called you and said, "Hey, you want to do this podcast a little earlier?" Then I needed a quiet place because a mechanic shop is not the place with all the hammering and beating and banging. So, the guy at the tire shop said, "Well, I got a I think I got a building that'll be quiet. I have to run you up there." Is it is it air conditioned? It's got a little air. I could turn it down a little bit and be more comfortable, but it is it's cool enough that this building has no signs. We pulled up and I said, well, when he told me, he said, 'I got a building that you can use. And uh he said, 'I just need to check and make sure. I said, ' Okay. Is it quiet in there? He said, "Oh, yeah, it'll be quiet in there." And uh you sitting there in the dark, are you? No. No, I'm not in I'm not in the dark, but I kind of want to turn out the lights because it look Well, that might be bad, too. It looks kind of like Dungeons and Dragons in here or something. This is a very weird place. There are no signs. No, this is right up in the middle of a bunch of other buildings, but this is a isolated uh no signs, no nothing on It sounds like an improvement to me cuz last time we recorded a podcast, you getting rained on and hail storm and everything else. Yeah. Well, I asked him. I said I said, "What what is this?" He said, "Don't ask." He said, "What goes on here can't be talked about." Oh my god. I said I said I said, "All right, no questions asked." So, it's very uh it's different than what I'm used to. So, I don't know if uh this may be some kind of underground crime building that I'm sitting in, but we're going to do a do a podcast and I'm I ain't going to talk too much about it so I don't get in trouble. Exactly. Maybe we won't keep you in there too long so you don't get implicated with in something. I don't know. I'm telling you, it's like Dungeons and Dragons. There are these spears, like these round balls with all these different colors. All of the chairs and stuff have these wild colors. Um there's some hammers, like wooden mallet style, like medieval type stuff, swords, and um just medieval, abundance dragons. Yeah, like uh I'm thinking about jousting and all that kind of stuff setting in here. That's kind of the feel it gives you. So, I don't know where I'm at or what what goes on here, but uh I bet there's some good-looking women that walk in and out of there for that type of event. I can just only imagine. I bet they crazier than most, though. Hey, you get you one of them good Renaissance gals. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm going to try to flip out here without anybody knowing I was ever. Yeah. They might think he might think you're a card carrying member of that joint, maybe. Hey, I'm thinking I do I am suspicious. I'm going have to call him when we get off here. I think it's possible that Tim, our buddy Tim, Spike Davis, could have connections cuz this is I'm thinking this is some some affiliation to the probably the cult that he's in. Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay. Maybe Tim can tell us all about it. He can probably tell me the details. This looks like his this kind of place right here. Oh man. Well guys, like I said earlier, we're discussing the coyote family bust up on this episode. Uh we'll talk about what family bust up actually is, when it starts, when it ends, and what are the best sounds to play during this time frame. So, we This makes our second time we've done a a family bustup type podcast. Uh, we did one last October, I think. And this is just a perfect time to to talk about this. This is this is a great little time frame to be calling. This is, like I said, this is one of my favorite times to call for coyotes. And I'd say it is for a lot of hunters as well. But I had you do this last time we did this podcast, Tory, covering this topic. But would you actually define what the term family bust up is and what's actually going on with the coyotes? Yeah, and like you said, this is my favorite time of the year to hunt them, too. But family bust up is a term that is is fairly new. Um, back years ago or a few years ago, what you always heard was pup dispersal. And pup dispersal actually means that once those pups get to a certain age or a certain status within the pecking order, they get pushed out and they completely leave the home range of those adults. They get pushed out, they go out on their own, they become transients. Once they become transients and leave that home range, that's true pup dispersal. Well, just hunting coats and then of course raising coats, watching coats. I realized that pup dispersal is something that is real drawn out. Big trickle effect. Some pups will disperse, you know, that first winter. Other ones may stay in that home range for up to two years or so before they disperse. They're still right there with those adults. So, I started calling it family bust up because what's actually going on is you got those real tightknit family groups. Once those pups are born during den season, those adults and pups are a tight-knit family group. They're close together. When you go out locate and you hear them, they're usually right there all in one wad together. As they get older and we start getting into this time of the year, they start tolerating each other less and less. Those pups start fighting and the group starts getting more and more distance between them. They begin to bust up. And so I thought calling it family bust up was a better term for it. And as that progresses, those coyotes eventually begin to spend the time apart, but a lot of times they're still in the home range of the adults. So you still have the family group and most members of the family group during the early stages of family bust up in the same home range, but they're not necessarily right together, right? They will come back together, group back up, get in fights, and then kind of bust up. And that's why a lot of times this time of the year when you go out and locate or you hear coyotes howling, you'll have a coyote here, maybe two coyotes 100 yards away, and then there's a third coyote off to itself in a different direction. And you've got coyotes kind of scattered out. Yep. Those that bust up time frame is what's really going on. And calling it family bust up, I thought, was a was a better term. And now you hear family bust up used more than you do up dispersal. And it's not because I was saying it and calling it family bust up because anybody else that hunts and sees and knows what's going on knows that the term family bust up or bust up describes what's actually going on in a co's life better than saying pup dispersal because the definition of pup dispersal carries a little different meaning. And then pub dispersal again is just a trickle effect that takes place you know over the next year or two right behind family bust up. Right. Right. So like with with family bust up when does it actually start taking place and when does it actually end? So just like everything else you're breeding your den and all that. There's a trickle effect, but to keep it simple, I would say August is your startup. Yep. And October is pretty much your end. That's a good window. August through October. And of course, September is going to be when you're going to see the the bulk of your noticeable family bust up behavior, right? And like I said, it's it's trickle effect. You can have a few coyotes that are starting to show bust up behavior early in August and you may have some family groups, lateorn pups that are still showing some of that bust up, you know, into late October, maybe even early November. But that's a that's a pretty good window for when you use your family bust up type stand sequences and all that kind of stuff. Right. Right. Well, it's one of the reason it's uh, you know, such a favorite time of mine that hunts cuz pretty much every single coyote that's out there on the landscape is a very callable coyote at this point. And, you know, before like with these yearlings, you could call them. Uh, but, you know, there was only certain sounds they would come to, and they wouldn't come a great distance. And usually you had to be right there in the thick stuff with them. Well, now you might get one of those yearling coyotes to come several hundred yards right out in the wide open to a variety of sounds. So, it's kind of one of those time frames that you can really get into some of that uh calling where you can really stack up multiples on a single stand. You know, this is where a lot of your doubles, triples, quads, quints, stuff like that, even more coyote that you can kill on the same stand in a matter of just a couple minutes. Yeah. And knowing about that is a big deal because a lot of times they are scattered out and some people kill one coat and get up and leave. Man, you are really missing out during that family bust up time frame if uh if you don't keep calling because you can what I referred to while ago, those coyotes being busted up and you got a coyote over here 200 yards away and you got one that's closer to you that's just out of sight and you got a couple more scattered out over here. depending on how big that family group is. You can call the code in that's closest to you. Shoot him in the first minute of the stand and then just keep picking off as your stand goes on until you're pretty sure you know there are stands you've done it. I've done it. Other people have done it to where you you call in an adult or one of those big pups and you kill it and then you call in, you know, let's just say you kill an adult first, then you kill two pups and before it's all over with, you've got an adult, three of those big pups and then you call in another adult and you know, you may wipe out that entire family group in one sitting, but call all of those coyotes in individually. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, I this this season so far, I haven't got in one of those stands where I just, you know, called in the whole family group just yet. C, you know, killed some doubles. Uh, but none of those bigger groups, but, you know, last year I had one stand where I'd killed five on one stand. And it was just a matter of just running house and social sounds. uh you know, three come out right off the bat, killed one, two went back in, switched to a social sound, one came back out, killed it, switched to another social sound, another come out, and so on and so on. And that's what we're talking about. Just because you call up one coyote or two coyotes and you shoot those one or two, keep switching sounds, keep hammering sounds, you could have a high possibility of having one of those absolute dream stands where you just stack coyotes right on top of each other. And that's usually what happens too. What I found out this time of year, somehow they all end up coming to the same spot. They might come from different directions, but you usually get them right in the same little area. And you can actually pile those suckers up when you're shooting them. They're almost touching or are touching. Yeah. Yeah. It's uh must have something to do with the way that Fox Pro set up. I say it does. I say it does. Puts them right there where you want them. That's right. Exactly. Exactly. Well, since we was talking about the some of the sounds there, there there definitely is certain sounds I think really shine uh during this time frame. Tori, uh some of you know various houses, uh social sounds, of course, you mentioned earlier uh odor class, pup fights, and that's just naming a few categories. Uh if you we want to talk about that a little bit to give these guys an example of stuff of you know sounds that are just dynamite this time of year. Um like say let's talk about some house like adult house and pup house group house that type of stuff. What are the the some of your favorite house that you like to run uh this time of year? I've been running a bunch of new ones here lately. Uh just because I've recorded, you know, every year I'm recording different pups and stuff like that. I've been kind of bouncing around between three or four different coats. U especially on the pup house side of it. But I still like to start my stands occasionally. Now, this is another time where we'll start adding some of that prey stuff in. But a lot of times I still start my stands with house and I'll go usually I'll go right to those adult house and this time of the year I really like juice. I like bougie any of the juice or the bougie house. Uh Boon is always in there uh using him. A newer coyote that I've started using a good bit. I've seen a lot of other people online. Uh Jimmy White comes to mind just right off the bat where uh they're using Fireball. Yep. The Fireball House. what you name and fireball amped up. Those have been really good. And following those lone adults, you know, usually I'll play one series from any one of those goats and then I'll go right to those those pup house. And the ones I've been using here lately in the past, I went with like the little bee whimper house, uh, bougie whiny pupiles. I really liked those for pup house on some of the older coat names. Uh but here recently I've had really good luck with the Dempsey, the Burrhead, and the Hoodlum pup house. Uh that Hoodlm 6 months and those Burhead house have been really good. And then uh there's a couple from Dempsey that are specifically titled for this time of year. There's August and September. Yeah, they're great. Excellent house. And I've been burning a burrhead stuff up, too. If you're not you're not using some of them burhead house, you ain't calling you're missing out on some coyotes. They they are good. They are they were recorded this time of the year. Dear and family bust up. And that's something else that's important to mention right now. The MFK sound library is the only sound library that truly records family bust up sounds. some of these other sound guys. And I'm not doing this to knock libraries because they'll they'll call coats, but this is just common sense. Family bust up cannot happen in caged coats. It cannot happen. They can't bust up. So, the social dynamic associated with the sounds that occur during family bust up cannot take place. Those social sounds can't take place. those fights and stuff that are associated with breaking up and then coming back together and those hows that are associated with coyotes breaking up and coming back together, that dynamic is missing unless you're coyotes are free range and in a natural setting. So, a lot of these sounds that we're talking about during family bust up, you got to have a Fox Pro and you got to have MFK to play these sounds. And that's just that's something that needs to be said because I've had people message me and say, "Hey man, I don't run a Fox Pro and I don't have your sounds, but I've got X sounds and these sounds. Is there something similar?" And I'll tell them the truth. I mean, and sometimes there is something similar in a different category, but when it comes to the family bust up time frame, you have to have that social dynamic to record those type sounds. Yeah. Well, anyway, I got kind of sidetracked, but I think that's important. It's a fact. I mean, it's it's just it like you said, it's common sense. If bust up bust up can't happen if they can't get away from each other, right? So, when you I don't care if it's a human, if it's a lion. Do you think a lion in the zoo is the same as a lion that's roaming free? If you cage a human, if you separate a human and cage it, everything about him changes pretty quick. That social dynamic changes. So, this is just common sense stuff that I think a lot of times people overlook when they're thinking about the sounds that they put on their call. You want sounds that come from that social dynamic if you want to get the best out of what you're playing. Yep. Yeah, but those those hows those how that I were t was talking about the reason I went that direction with it is because those burrheads and those dempsey house all of that stuff is taking place during family bust up where these pups they have a pecking order they get in a fight they get into it the higher ranking pups will jump on a lower ranking pup and that pup is the first one's domino effect y the weakest link the weakest pup gets pushed out he's the first to get busted up and out of the group. Well, they get out there and they're used to being in a group. So, that's when you'll get these lone pupiles to where they want to reunite. And a lot of times you'll get a lone pupile and then you'll hear the group fire up. And as family bust up progresses, you'll get more pups that are busted up and the group gets bigger. But in order to get those hows that are like that and to get that behavior, you've got to be able to record them in that type setting. And so that's that's why those pup house work so good this time of the year. They're recorded in a bust up situation where that pup is wanting to regroup and get back with the family members. And you get those type houses that we were talking about a while ago with the Dempsey Birdhead Hood. Yeah. Type house. Well, and and some of those houses that you mentioned. I mean, it's like right now, and I did this same thing for for last year, and it just works so good. The first three sounds that I play on any given stand this time of year, my three favorites, like if I'm going to go call this evening, I'm starting off with bougie homesick house. I'm going to follow that up with Burrhead Yodel House and then Sister Pearlow. And that's what I did that a lot last year. And man, you usually already have coyotes on the way. And I think some people might miss out on putting in pair house and group house this time of year into their into the sequence. Absolutely. Those that was the next direction I was going to go. Tailing right off what I said about those pups getting busted out in the early stages of family bust up. They get pushed out. They want to come back together. Once that group kind of bust up and they get lonely, you'll have coats here, coats there. They will howl and they'll come back together for a short period of time until they can't tolerate each other. Well, those family bust up type groups are absolutely killer. And one of my favorite ones, if anybody's watched any of the latest videos, they've seen some of it in action. Sweet and sour group has become one of, if not my favorite group pile. Especially this time of the year, works anytime, but especially this time of the year, family bust up time frame, those coaches come back together, then no sooner are they back together, right on the tail end of that group, you hear them break into a fight. I've had countless coach run over that sound while it was playing. Me and Joey Worth used it on a recent hunt and had get deep into a stand and go back to sweet and sour group or maybe I hadn't played it at all and get coyotes that wouldn't come to anything else come running in on that group with that little fight on the end of it. But y those uh as far as some of the the family group family bust up time frame group house that I like sweet and sour group gut pile pup serenade. Uh and then flip-flop and friends that's one people have ever heard me talk about flip-flop. She was born deformed. Both back legs ended up being they were she was kind of crippled at first. could use them, but they eventually got stiff in the joints and stuck straight out sideways. She walked on two legs on her two front legs. I've got videos of this coat that I need to share with people. But because she was crippled up and deformed, she was, of course, the lowest ranking pup. Those other ones jumped on her heavy. So, a lot of she was pretty much an outcast her whole life. She still wanted to be with the group though and kind of operated on the outskirts. Well, flip-flop and friends, there's a couple different ones. Flip-flop and friends, group how and then flip-flop and friends, too. And both of those are where she's out there by herself, howling, lonely, wanting to get back with the rest of the group. So, the friends portion of that sound title is the family group. And this is her howling on the outside of that. And so, it's kind of a unique sound that I use during family bust up because she's right there when I'm recording. She's right there at the recorder and you hear the group just a little short distance away from her. But um those are good. Three-pack Serenade is good. Um and then a couple of the older sounds that people may already have on their call. Happy Yappy Group. And then uh Sweden um Happy Family. Happy Yappy. I' I love that sound file. I've burned it up about all summer. So, one of the reasons I started playing Sister Parouse cuz I'm tired of hearing Happy Group. I've already played it so dag on much. It's time to move on to something else. But both excellent, excellent sound file. That's always in my favorites list, you know, on my presets. Sister pair and some newer ones. The Fireball Big Girl. I think we talked about them on a different podcast. Fireball. There's so many good ones. I usually just I play ex some of those sounds that I just covered. I'll pick one or two of those adults, one or two of those pups, one or two of those group house, and then on the next stand, I'm picking a different one. Yeah. But pl but following pretty much the same sound sequence. So to give people an idea, just though all those sounds we're mentioning, picking an adult town, pick you a pup or two, pick you one of those groups and try it. And then on the next stand, um, try some different ones and you'll end up with multiple sequences that are all all of those sounds I just mentioned or that we just talked about are all killers. So, you can pick and mix and match. You can keep if you're especially if you're not hunting a lot of property, you can keep fresh ears because you have several sounds to choose from and you can build a similar sequence that works but using a different sound in that sequence to accomplish the same goal. Yep. Yep. And that's and guys, just like we was talking about, you're running three different sets of house on a stand. I'm telling you, if you're not doing that this time of year, put this way, when you hit that first how, you're liable to already have a coyote coming. Every time you play that third set of house, there pretty good chance it's going to be right there in front of you. If they're not, I about guarantee you going to have one show up with the next set of sounds we're fixing to talk about, and that is social sounds. I think hows are one of the most powerful sounds that you can use during family bust up. And then right behind that is social sound. You want to talk about social sounds a little bit, Tori? Yeah. I think, you know, again, if you rewind back a few years ago, you didn't even hear about social sounds. You didn't They really weren't recognized or talked about. Now, especially for me, and I know you love them, too. Social sounds are probably what I categorize as social sounds. They are the sounds that coyotes make the most often and they've got to be part of your sequence. If you're not running them, guarantee you're missing you're missing out on some codes and some some early trigger sounds in your stand that could help you put those first one or two coats in front of you before you even pick up your third or fourth coat when you move on to more aggressive sounds like the pup bites and stuff. But the social sounds are those especially during your family bust up or anytime coats are communicating with each other. I often think of them as like your meet and greet type sounds when your coats get in close proximity to each other. A lot of times after they've howled and then they group back up, that's when those social interaction sounds take place. And they're the most common sound that coats make, but the rarest heard when you're out there hunting because they're so low volume and subtle. We can play them at a higher volume on our Fox Pro and get these coats to come in on those sounds because they are such a meet and greet. They you're targeting every coat when you play social sounds. from the littlest coat, youngest goat up to the biggest, meanest coat, they will all come to social sounds. And some of my favorites, we've mentioned them numerous times, greeting wines, mom and dad call, submissive beggar, any of those sounds that are in the social category that say submissive. All of those are good ones. Submissive beggar is my favorite. Submissive tap out's good. Submissive lines. Um, and then I've actually me and John were talking before the podcast and I ain't going to give away all our secrets, but we were talking about some pretty good stuff that uh some new social sounds that I've already recorded and uh some more stuff that may may be coming y'all's way in the future on social sounds. That's really good. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he said if you ain't using social sounds, I use social sound year round. Uh, I mean, any day I go hunt, there's going to be at least one social sound played. I think it's one of those sounds that all coyotes are comfortable with. I mean, because they they make these sounds and they lived with these sounds as they're growing up and stuff. And I just think, you know, every coyote out there is pretty comfortable with a social sound. And there's oftent times there's some stands that I'll actually lead with a social sound. I've always got at least two social sounds in my preset list, in my in my favorites list. They're just always there. And this time of year, I'm usually always playing at least two, if not three social sounds on any given stand. And Tori, I'm just like Tori there. Submissive beggar is probably my top top one. I've always got Submissive Beggar there. And it's one of my favorite sounds to play this time of year. And then Greeting Wines, which I just really started using over the last two or three years, I guess when it first come out, I guess, because they ain't been out all that long, maybe three years or something like that, but it's it's quickly became a favorite and is a close second. Submissive tap out. It's another great sound. One sound that's from Fox Pro um that you'll hear some people talk about every once in a while is female coyote submissive. It's got a lot more barking and stuff in it. It's a little bit little bit uh it's kind of a different type social sound. Uh but it's a good one to play play as well, but you need to be incorporating social sounds. And I'm usually putting them in some like I said, sometimes I'll lead the stand with it, but most of the time I'm playing them right after a set of house. And what I'm doing is just kind of laying out that uh kind of painting a picture so to speak. Like I said, letting out a set of lone house, following it up with a pup, then either a pair or group how, and then I go into my social sounds. Yep. And that's exactly what happens, especially during family bust up. Those coyotes howl, another one answers, they group back up, social sounds take place, and then a lot of times right behind those social sounds during family bust up, they can't tolerate each other for very long. And then even though they're doing a meet and greet, they end up in a fight before long. So, well, let's let's go ahead and talk about that. That's what I had. I got it all right there in line. I was going to ask you, what about pup fights? Let's talk let's talk about those. Hey, you might you might run into somebody you might meet at a meet and greet somewhere this week and you know, you might get along with a couple of them. If they hang around too too long and rub you the wrong way, it might be a fight. That happens a lot of times at some of them parties. That's right. Everybody's getting along good and then it's a big big drunk fall before it's over with. But coyotes are a lot the same way. They get pretty rowdy once they get in close proximity to each other this time of the year. And it it goes back to just what I was talking about a while ago. They you have a pecking order that's established when they're little. When they're about 3 weeks old, they start fighting and they establish that pecking order within that family group. And then once they get to about this time of the year for whatever reason, it's they can't tolerate each other anymore. So then you will have those higher ranking pups and the adults are of course they're they rank higher than all the pups. So they're at the top. They start tolerating the pups less. So they'll start kind of pushing them out, jumping on them, whooping them down, keeping them at distance. And your pups are doing the same thing to each other with your higher ranking pups, jumping on. You'll have two or three of them jumping on one of the weaker ones. And that one's the first one to get busted up in the group and they'll come back in then gets jumped on again. And before long that cow gets jumped on over the course of that August through October time frame that it starts getting to where it just doesn't fool around with the group anymore. But those fight this is enough. I'm done. How many times you want to get whooped, you know? Exactly. And uh so they start that's where you see that you know and when it first starts up in August you get a little distance but they're toler they're still tolerating each other for a period of time and then as that goes forward throughout August into September on through September the period of time that they tolerate each other gets shorter and shorter less and less. So that's how you can actually watch family bust up takes place and even hear it when you're locating. You'll start getting more distance and then all of a sudden in a spot where you heard, let's say you went and located back earlier in the summer and it sounded like there was a big group of coats there. You go back and say October and you howl in that same spot, you still get a vocal response, but maybe you only hear three or four codes and they're spread out. Yep. you're getting to see you may have a couple of pups that are no longer even in hearing distance of where they were when they were part of that family group. So, you can use those because those pup fights become so common this time of the year. You can use those right behind your social sounds. You have the meet and greet and they get rowdy, can't tolerate each other, they go right to a pup fight. I a lot of times skip straight pup distress and just go straight to pup fights this time of the year and play two or three of those because your pup distress is built in with the fight. Exactly. So you can you can if I do play, you know, pup distress, I'll do something like play broke pups or total pup package or, you know, pup mix, something that mixes two or three pup distresses. I'll just play that for two or three minutes if I use it at all. But a lot of times they go straight to those pup fights because that's what's happening in the coach's life. And a lot of times if they hadn't already shown up or a lot of times you've already killed, like we were talking about earlier, you've already killed a co or two on your house, your social sounds, then you pick up another one on a pup fight or two. And uh so some of the some of the pup fights that I've been picking through here lately, some of the newer ones, and then I'll throw a couple of the older ones in for people that may already have them on their call. Broke Up Brawl is good. Bone Battle is good. Fireball Dempsey Rematch, I know you love it. It's good. Bam Stanky, all of the Bam Stanky fights are right up there at the top of my favorites on Pup Fights. Uh I especially like Bam Stanky 8week. Uh, flip-flop meat guard is really good. That's that deformed coyote. And she's trying her best to guard a chunk of meat that she's got. It's good. It's new. Uh, little heathen versus big girl, new one. That's good. Hood versus flip-flop, new one. That's good. And then a couple that are thick thump is a older age class, right towards the tail end. These coats are big, big pups. Uh, thicket thump. It was recorded right during the tail end of family bust up and that's where a couple of higher ranking pups are just I mean they're putting a whooping on the third one. There's actually been some video clips of that fight on some of the some of the stuff we've released here and there, but it's a legit family bust up fight. Your mama's another one that's a good one. And uh those are those are just some of the ones that I'll kind of toggle through from one stand to the next. Yeah. And they're they're great like I was talking about. They're great sounds to incorporate because just like you got four coyotes out there on the landscape and two of them get together and get to fighting. Well, guess what the third and fourth coyote's going to do? They're wanting to come in there and see what's going on or be part of that whooping. And it just flat out calls coyotes this time of year. It it'll call coyotes any time of the year, but right now is when that's just that's just part of their life. And when it happens, they can't resist it. They got to come check it out. Yep. Let's um there's one other um sound category that I think is going to be worth mentioning. Um there's actually more than one, but this is when I actually start inserting prey distress a little bit into my column sequences. Uh Tori, um I've went since March, maybe early March was probably the last time the coyotes that I hunt have heard a prey distress from my Fox Pro. uh from early March till till right now. Besides for maybe just a little bit of fawn distress here and there sprinkled in, but like right now is when I'll start putting in a little bit of bird distress, a little bit of rabbit distress, or whatever your favorite distresses are. Uh because a lot of these yearlings are now out hunting on their own. They their canines, their adult canines are either coming in or have already came in and they turn into killers, don't they? That's Yeah. And you that last thing you ended with, that was the first thing I was going to mention talking about this and the prey sounds. We've brought it up before. I've done videos on it. Anytime something happens behaviorally with coats, I like that research side of it. you know, I'm always asking why why does why does an animal do this at a certain time? What triggers that? Well, a lot of what makes sense on the prey distress stuff, and one of the reasons we save it to now is it'll work year round, but when those pups are really little, prior to, you mentioned their their teeth coming in, prior to those them shedding their baby teeth and getting those big teeth, they're not doing any catching and actively catching outside of grasshoppers and stuff like that. They're not actively hunting and catching bigger prey species like rabbits and stuff like that. So when we play prey sounds, we're primarily targeting the adults. If the pups come in there, you know, they're coming for curiosity and stuff like that, instinctual, but a lot of times they don't even show up on that. So depending on what your goal is, you know, we usually leave the prey stuff off because you can call those adults in on your vocals just like you puff and you get to save those prey sounds for when they're even more effective and target a larger portion of the co population. Yeah. Once those, which is about August, once those coats hit about that five month time frame, they'll start shedding those baby teeth. And that is I mean that's like that is the mark that signifies this is an adult coyote so to speak or a teenage co a legal coat if you want to compare that's like him hitting 18 18 to 21 you know. Yeah, that's the the equivalent because when those when those big teeth come in turns into a completely different animal and that's when you're it also signifies family bust up too because that's when those cows start acting as individuals. Those adults are no longer bringing food back. So they've got to start catching and killing on their own. What correlates perfectly with that? Prey distress sounds. So, you've got these coaches that are inexperienced as far as doing that kind of stuff and when they hear a rabbit or a bird or whatever prey distress you want to throw out there at them, it's prime time to take advantage of that. And of course, you're still targeting your older age class coyotes, too. But that is when the the time frame with family bust up and using prey distress, it all makes sense. Going back to asking the question why the behavioral change. That's why they get those big teeth in. Family bust up. They're kicked out of the family group. Nobody's tending to them anymore. They got to tend to theirelves. So, yep. Prime time to take advantage of it with mixing some prey sounds. And I don't know exactly how you do it. A lot of times I'll just mix that prey. Sometimes I'll start with it, but most of the time I just mix it in somewhere. You know, if I hadn't got them on my house, I'll mix in a prey sound here or there. And as you progress, as you get deeper, I know you do this too, you get a little bit deeper, your other season, bobcat, stuff like that, you'll start moving that prey sound to the front of your sequence. Y and running more of them. Yep. Yep. Instead of running one rabbit or two, you might run two or three rabbits and a couple birds or something like that with with more duration for each one of them, too. Yep. Yep. No. Yeah. Usually, if I'm putting it in my stand right now, a lot of times if it's limited, it's just like just a couple minutes of it. Uh, but a lot of times it it and if I put it in, it'll be like right in front of my social sounds or right behind them. There is some stands that I will put it right on the very front. But like I said, I'm only playing a short burst of it just in case, you know, I got a coyote right there that that I can get off of it. And if I kill one to it, I'd go ahead and go right into my vocals to start my stand off right at the beginning with house and go through the whole gambit there. Yeah. And I and I mean I know you you know this and a lot of our listeners know this, but somebody that's new to it. All we're doing, we talking about everything being a trickle effect, the way stuff takes place, these transitions. The reason you start mixing that stuff in and then you start adding to it, is because if you're familiar with their behavior in the time of the year, we know that it's a trickle effect. So, you start mixing it in to take advantage of those first few coats that are on the front end of that. And then you're going to what has been working with the vocals. And then as time progresses, you know that those prey distress sounds are become more the trickle has started, you know, getting stronger. It's no longer a trickle. They're right in the where most of your coats have shed their teeth and most of your coats have busted up and have started functioning on their own. You can That's why we're doing it that way. So, anybody new, if you're wondering, knowing the the life cycle of the codes and how they transition, once you start figuring that out, you can build your sound sequence to take advantage of those transitions and kind of know where the trickle is, the peak, and then the trickle off on the other side. And you keep up with stuff like that, you can you can usually, you know, kill a few more coats. Exactly. And you know, I we'll do these podcasts and we'll we'll you know, share with people what we like to use at certain stretches of the year like we're doing with this podcast, you know, for the family bust up time frame from from this point all the way through October and into the parts of November. The thing is, guys, we're just part of it opinion. You know, we're just sharing with you guys what we have success with. What we're telling you, we know works. We do it all the We do it all the time. I've done it this past week, this stuff we're talking about and killed several coyotes. Now, that being said, I have people will comment to me all the time, well, just like I just said a minute ago, I said, you know, I haven't played any prey distress since early March, besides for a little bit of fond stress mixed in. They're like, well, I run prey distress all the time. I run rabbit and killed some last night. I'm not saying you can't kill coyotes with rabbit in April, May, June, July, and all that type of stuff, but you can save sounds. And one thing about it, before I get too far ahead of myself, the guys that, you know, will me message in and say, you know, I run rabbit all the time and and kill with it all the time. There's many, many right ways to call in a coyote. And I'm not telling you, you're doing it wrong. You're doing it exactly right. If you're calling coyotes in and you're continuously having success, you're doing just fine. But we're just sharing our opinion with you and sharing with you guys what we find success with at certain times of year and uh you can just take it for whatever it's worth, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's there's no doubt about it. You can take any sound that we've ever talked about, whether it be prey distress sounds or vocals or social sounds or pup distress. You can take pup distress and kill in the dead of winter just like I mean any sound that works works year round. Some of them just you know we have a preference on I guess when we use some of them versus others. Not that they don't work and and I think we could go out and kill a lot of cows running in rabbit distress year round. I know we could. Of course. But I just favor saving them just because Yeah. if I'm, you know, you can kind of keep some fresh ears. You can save some sounds. You can It's It's strategy more than anything. That's exactly right. Right there. It's strategy. You're saving sounds for certain times of year that your coyotes don't hear from you anyway. You know, you're always sharing ground with people. Uh, but I think where his stuff really really shines is if you're somebody like it's like myself and Tori, we've got if you're somebody that has limited ground to hunt. You know, I don't have I can't hunt every single farm in the county I live in and the surrounding counties and in the state. I've only got certain places that I can hunt. So, I've only got a certain number of coyotes that I can go after. I have a few places that is just those type of places that holds coyotes really well. You know, you might go in there and kill a pair out of it and just a few weeks later another coyote fills that hole. I do have a handful of spots like that, but I don't have endless spots like that. And if you're somebody similar that has limited ground and you only have x amount of family groups of coyotes you can go after, you can find these family groups of coyotes and you can go in and hunt them at certain times a year and play certain types of sounds and sound sequences to match that time of year. And you can go in one time and kill a coyote or two or three. Come back in another spell later in a different life change of the coyotes and play a different set of sounds and sequences. Get you another coyote or two out of that group. Next thing you know, if you find you, let's just use a good round number, 10 or 12 groups of coyotes on the landscape out there somewhere on these places you can hunt. And if you sprinkle your stands in there like I'm talking about and use sounds and sequences that match the the right time frame, next thing you know, you've killed several dozen coyotes over the year and you really don't have that many places to hunt. Yeah. If it makes sense to anybody, you know, I know a lot of guys got hundreds of thousands acres to hunt, but I don't. Yeah, it makes sense because you're you're strategically keeping your ground as fresh as possible. Even though you're hunting it multiple times, you're you're keeping their ears somewhat fresh by picking and choosing your sounds at certain times of the year. Yeah. I I think I think if you're if you take two hunters and they've got the same amount of ground to hunt, the same type of ground, the same number of coyotes, and you know, everything matches up. The difference is if one of them just goes out there and runs the same exact sounds all the time, all year round, the guy that throws in a little bit of variety in there and does their sounds and sequences that match the time of year, that guy's going to kill more coyotes than a guy that just runs the same stuff the whole time. Guarantee it. I think Yeah, I think it'll be a lopsided margin, too. Guarantee it. Overall, but yeah, no doubt about it. Let's talk one thing we didn't talk about there, Tori, just to add in because you've always got to play this set of sounds. I don't care what time of year it is. I don't care how many coyotes you got to hunt. I don't care how much ground you got to hunt. You got to throw some adult fight stuff in there at some point, don't you? Yeah, that's that's that's always the the stand ender um 99% of the time. And of course, I always go with those main ones. I've recorded some new ones, but the fight challenge table scraps pound town type stand uh sounds are still they're still getting it done, buddy. I mean, still, good grief. We killed killed some coyote this past week that came to pound town. I've used that sound no town how many times. killed. No tell how many coyotes to it and killed a a pair of odor coyotes just a couple days ago that came hard charging to it just like and these coyotes these were no young coyotes. These coyotes were you know in prime of their life had a three or four years under their belt and I guarantee you I would have thought they had probably heard it before but they sure didn't act like it the other day. Yeah. Yeah. Those uh those are mustd do standers. And again going right back to what we talked mentioned multiple times when you sit down during family bust up time frame you have a lot of times depending on how big that group is you may have anywhere from three or four to five six seven codes and in in rare cases more than that. I mean, I've called in 14 on one stand before. Yeah. You know, stuff like that. So, you can sit there and go through and and pick up a coat as you change from I call them trigger categories. As you change from your house to your social to your folk fights to your adult fights and your prey sounds, you know, those are all different possible triggers and you may have already picked up two or three, three or four coats. I would still play those adult fights because you may pick up one more or two more co just because that's that stood there and listened to the other stuff you played and for whatever reason didn't trigger until you played that that last category. Um so good way to there is no better time to kill multiple cows that big. The time the time is the time is the time is now for that for sure. This is where you can really get into those big, you know, laying multiples down on the ground. And since we kind of covered all that stuff there, Tori, why don't you go ahead and throw us throw us an example of a full sound sequence. Like if you were going this afternoon, tell us your sequence. What are you playing? All right. I would probably start just because I've had so much luck with it just here lately. I'd probably start with the juice lonely female for my adult tile. Right. Right off the bat. Yep. I'm going juice lonely female. Then I'm going to follow that with hoodlum 6 months. That's probably going to be and again I've had some coach run right through that how recently and I hadn't hunted a whole lot but that's uh that's been a good one. I'm going to follow that with sweet and sour group. And I mentioned before when Joey was down here, made several stands with him. That was a really hot group out. Um, and then going from it right to I hadn't started mixing in any prey distress sounds yet. If I was going to, I would probably mix them in right about here somewhere. And I'd play, you know, just any one of the rabbits, birds. Might even play pond. So like rose bush cotton, broke cotton, whiskey pond, tenderloin, stuff like that. a bird, any kind of prey distress, I'd probably only pick one of them. And like I said, I hadn't done that any yet. But if I was going to mix it in, that's where I would do it. And from there, I'm going right to those pup fights. And I'm probably going to pick a couple different ones. Broke up Brawl. I really like it this time of the year, so that would probably be the one I started with. And then for the next one, probably going to go with that Fireball Dempsey rematch. And if I hadn't picked one up at that point, be hard for me not to play some Bam Stanky 8 week. Yep. And if I hadn't got a coat right there, then I'm going to go right to probably either just any one of the fight challenge table scraps or pound town to end it. And I I'll be honest, I hadn't really I hadn't called up any coats on the hadn't needed to, right? I've killed the coats and multiples. Um Joey, if Joey Worth when he was down here on the hunt, the hunt with the Tennessee, we killed multiple coats on some of those stands and Joey has already released some of those on his channel. People want to check them out. You can see some of that stuff that we've talked about in action. And we didn't we didn't have to get to the adult fights because we had already called in the group, you know, ahead of that. Yep. So, but that's a if you hadn't already got them killed or you got more coyotes out there, that's uh and I still play them. Just coyotes were already dead, then nothing else showed up. That's the That's the sequence I would run right now. What about you? Well, we pretty much kind of went through, you know, talking about our sequence earlier on, but you will tie it like Tori just did. I'll tie mine together. And this is what I've been running over the last week or so. Starting off with bougie homesick house. Then I go into Burrhead Yodel House. Then sister I forgot my sub I forgot my social sounds. That's one of the key things. We're right behind Sweet and Sour group. I'm on greet and wives. Mom and dad didn't call or submissive beggar. There. There you go. I'm running those. I can't believe I forgot one of the key ingredients. See, I was I was going to go bad. I was going to go in there right behind you and I was going to pick up some of them coyotes you left behind on some social sounds. What I was going to do. You definitely I said they were already dead before I get to them. Most of them died on either of those or those social sounds. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. So, like I saying, I'll play three different sets of hows. I like bougie. I mean, there's so many different houses that you can choose from, but this is what I've been sticking with. Bougie Homesick House and Burrhead Yodel House. Then I follow in my house with Sister Pear House. Then I'm going right into my submissive sounds. I'm playing two, sometimes three, but always will be playing greeting wines and submissive beggar. If I feel like I need to play a third, it's usually submissive tap out. Then I go into two different pup fights. I like Bam Stanky 8week and Fireball Dempsey Rematch which I think is another eight-week sound and then I'll usually play two adult fights right on the back of that. Always going to be playing pound town and I like fight challenge. Now you guys might be thinking like man that's a lot of sounds to be playing on a stand. I'm telling you was what we said earlier. This is the time of year just to keep calling after you call in coyotes because you just never know how many you might stack up from the beginning to the end. And it is you're liable to call one or two coyotes to almost any one of these sounds. And like I said, a lot of times you're going to have coyotes actually show up to at some point in your house that you're going to play. If they don't, it's a dag on good chance they're going to come in during the social sounds and it's right on down the line. And that's pretty much a textbook sequence uh this time of year. And I can tell you one for uh there's a good Fox Pro sounds that you can put together for this time of year and it'd be like female sore house followed by young coyote how koi family right on the back side of that female coyote submissive. Then you know you can even mix in a uh rabbit sound or bird sound whenever you want to. And then I'm usually finishing it up with a sound like pup pup distress number three pup screams or a fight like den heist or den mayhem. Yeah. And you mentioned it being a a a good many sounds in a sequence. One other thing that we didn't necessarily touch on on this podcast we have in other ones but it's probably important. We're still tight to these coyotes this time of the year. So we're not running these sounds. You know we're crowding these cos. We usually know they're there. Either we've located them, farmers told us about them, you got a pretty good idea where you think these coats are at. You've you need to be still as close as you can to them. So, even though we've got a bunch of sounds in the sequence, we're usually not running these sounds very long and you're triggering these codes pretty quick. So you you got several sounds, but your sequence is still not terribly long because you're calling coach from short distance most of the time and you're you're not needing to run those sounds more than I mean most of the time when you kick the sound on the coach they're within one to two minutes that their sound. Exactly. And and of course you can do these blind calling as well and you can definitely have luck. But that is one thing I was actually going to ask you Tori before we jumped off here because that's what I've been doing. I've been I'm still locating. I usually get up I've been making morning stands. So I'll get up a little early and go hit two or three spots and I'll howl, you know, on the outskirts of the property trying to locate coyotes and I'm still having pretty good luck with that. Now you might find them kind of spread out, but I'm still getting those groups to answer back. How much longer do you feel like it's going to be um an effective tactic uh going through uh these fall months we're looking at here? It'll it'll start tapering off as the bust up tapers off, you know, as those coyotes start to really once they quit coming back together. So, you get into that deeper October time frame. Mhm. From now on, usually you start, you can still have really good success locating right now, like you just mentioned, but you should expect over the next several weeks. You you're going to start seeing a decline in your area at some point as that bust up begins to taper off and the co start coming back together less. And you'll have these, you know, these lower ranking coast that have been pushed out to where they're no longer interested in grouping back up. So your vocals when they quit grouping back up, a lot of times your vocals decline. So you there's still some there's still some good vocal action to be had, but you need to get get in on it right now and expect it to to start tapering off. Well, before we get off here, I got to hit you with this. Give me your three must-have family bust up time frame sound files. So you get your X360, your X24, whichever one you're wanting to take, but you only have three sounds on it to call up coyotes from right now through the first week of November. What are they going to be? Three of them. Three. Just three. Just three. Uh, give me Sweet and Sour Group because that'll get me I can get I'm gonna skip over the loan house and go right to Sweet and Sour Group to get my house. U, they'll vocalize to that and run in on it. Uh, then for a social because I got to have it. Just call in too many coats this time of the year with it. Um,
I I'm going to let you have greeting wines and I'm going to go with mom and dad call and uh because I and you may not pick that one, but I kind of had a sneaking suspicion you might know you've been having good luck with it here lately. So, uh I'm going to I'm gonna shock you with mine then. Okay. All right. I'm stick I'll stick with it. Sweet and sour sweet and sour group. Mom and dad didn't call and then uh bam stanky eight week. I mean it's just I've called up too many coyotes with that sound. Hey, you going to be killing coyotes from now through first week of November sound like to me. And the only reason I didn't jump, you said keep it specific to family bust up. Yeah. So, if anybody's wondering why I didn't pick one of the adult fights or something like that, I was trying to go with sounds that were recorded and actually specific to Family Bus. Yep. Yep. Well, my three and I am I'm taking a loan how and cuz I'm I'm cheating with it though. I'm take I'm taking MFK boon lone wine house because that's a great how to get coyotes to answer. It's a great how to get coyotes to advance to the call. And it is a long how it's a long sound file for a how. I think it's clo it's probably close to a minute long is it? But yeah, I can I can bust that up if I want to. So I can play like two or three hows in it and I can pause. Okay. Yeah. And then I can start it back. You see what I'm saying? So it's a it's a killer killer sound. I love it. So I got that one. And although I want greeting wine so much because it has been an absolute killer last two to three years. I cannot choose that over submissive beggar. They've got to have Hey, that's the that's the standard set. That's the bar. I mean, it's it has set the bar high. It's hard not to dick it. It It's a It's a social sound, but it's almost like borderline pup distress sounding, too. Especially when you crank it up at higher volumes. So, it it gives me the social slashpup distress. And I'm going to cheat on the last one. Pound town. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That's a little outside. It kind of is. It could It could classify. It's year round, so you can slip it in there. Yeah, it's a killer. That's for sure. That that both of those sequences are going to kill. And I guess people figured out they could slip greeting wines in there no problem. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, it was like flip a It's almost like flip a coin. Take greeting wines or or sub submissive beggar pretty much. But that kind of gives me that pup distress, too. You know, I'm just talking about if I can only have three. Yeah. It's hard to when you can only get three. It makes it a tough cuz you're look usually when you can only pick three, you're looking at several more that you could rotate out and be just as satisfied that uh I and I tell you what, like pound town, you know, there's been so many coyote skilled to it. It's almost like my security blanket, you know, if if something starts going wrong in the stand when I've got coyotes out there in front of me, some reason my thumb goes to my presets. It's got pound town on it more times than not. I don't know why. It's just like pound town's going to save it for me. Hey, and a lot of times a lot of times it does. I mean, it could be anything. It could be some coyotes I spooked and that gets them stopped or called back in or whatever goes wrong. It's just like I can always fall back on it and it's going to save the day, save the stand. I've always wished that I could figure out what it is in a particular like talk about Bam Stanky 8week or Pound Town. Y I've recorded hundreds of pup fights and a lot of them work and work really good. What is it about Bam Stanky 8 week that it seems to me like I kill more coyotes on it than maybe one of the other ones? I know it, you know. Or what is it about pound town versus another adult fight that they can't stand or that they love? However you want to look at it. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I I don't know. I I guarantee you if you could figure it out, you could sure you could sure help yourself out a little bit when you go to record sounds. Oh, record sounds, go through your remote, all that kind of stuff. Boy, some I've talked about submissive beggar. I overlooked that sound for a long time because when I recorded I said this is just a one that didn't catch my ear that much. And I've said that to you once before. I was like Tori don't get mad at me. I you you know I love it but I just got to say when I play submissive beggar it doesn't sound all that you know appealing to my ear. You know what I mean? Like you know but there's something special about it. take out. I love it. And you can have another sound that is, you know, you record it and it's, you know, just has all these things when you're recording it or when you listen to it on your call, you think, man, this sound right here is going to get after. You can't call a coyote for nothing on it. I've got I've got sounds that I've fooled with with, you know, I'll play almost all of the sounds. Well, I do play all of them. I'll play all of them to the coaches, you know, the MFK coaches, and just see what their reaction is. And I've got sounds that I've recorded that I thought sounded really good that I've never done anything with because they don't seem to show much interest in it. Greeting wines is another one. I was You can ask Jamie Terry. I was testing that sound. It's a hard sound to record. It's a hard sound to get clean. I purposely left. If anybody listens to that sound, you will hear the coat snorting through its nose. You'll hear that breathy nasly noise of the coat. I'm recording right there on her. Well, I didn't think, well, some people may not know what that that is. They may think they may not think that's the coat. They may think that that's wind noise or something. So, I was reluctant to release that sound until we started taking it out and calling coats. And Jamie was down here with me. JT Jamie Terry, he was down here and I was asking him about said, "What do you think?" You know, I was getting some feedback from him on, "So, you think I ought to release it and leave that nasely part in there, or you think I ought to cut that out?" He said, he said, "Bo," you know, he's Hey, from Virginia, but he sound Yeah. He sounds like he's caging that accent. He said, "Hey, Bo. Hey, Bo." I ain't gonna say exactly what he said. He was more colorful with his words, but he said he wouldn't mess with it. So, yeah, we'll me with it. Yeah. Yeah. He, like I said, he used different words, but he made it very clear that he would not mess with it. So, I said, "All right, I ain't going to mess with it." And it has, it's been one of those sounds that just don't sound like a whole lot when you listen to it. It will put codes, they will stick their nose in the call over and over again over that sound. So, you just never know what you record. Well, how it's going to turn out. Speaking of grading wines, you won't hear it in the video, but if you guys go on the Fox Pro, Inc. Facebook page from last week or week before, you'll see a short video clip real of a coyote just running across this wide open hayfield and just comes to a abrupt stop and he gets shot in the chest and it pans over and sees me smiling. that coyote come blazing across a wide open hayfield broad daylight right after right after sunrise and I what I did reason you don't hear it in the in the video is cuz I had to hit pause I had to hit mute to try to slow this coyote down because it was coming just way too fast so where you see the video pick up I've already hit mute but this coyote runs right up there on top of the call and shoot it right there in a daytime east of the Mississippi. Come to Greeting Wines just as hard as it could come. So, go check it out and you can see what the results will be when you play a sound like Greeting Wines. Oh, it's killer. They They like it and that's all that matters. Well, they got your truck ready yet? They I'm hoping they do. They told me two to three hours if everything went smooth and I think it's been about close to three hours since I dropped it off. So, I hope they got me fixed up. Well, we burned up an hour of time for you so you could have something to do. We We appreciate you you take you sharing sharing your time with us today. Yeah. Well, like I said, uh any other day I would have been complaining, but since I ain't in Miami, I'm happy. Yeah, boy. Well, you got anything you'd like to leave us with? Just as always, appreciate everybody listening and uh using our stuff. Yes, sir. Guys, take what we've talked about in this episode, put it to work in the field. I guarantee you, you'll call you'll call up some coyotes. And if some of these sounds we talked about, if you want to try them out, don't have them, you can find them on the goofpro.com website and the mfkgamecalls.com website. That is correct, right? That's Did I give the website correct there, Tori? Yes. Yes, they're on those websites. Go get them. Go put them to work. Hopefully you guys enjoyed this episode and you join us again right here on the Fox Pro podcast.